I have no experience with a CVT in a vehicle. My only experience with a CVT was with my 2015 John Deere 825i Gator. I hated the way the CVT worked so bad I got rid of the UTV about 8 months after buying it. Based on that experience only, I don't want to be near a CVT.
GM's new 9 speed 9T50
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Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I'm referring to Chrysler products. IIRC the Hemi and diesel gets the heavy duty version, which is much better than the unit they're using behind the V6.
I'm pretty sure that the Heavy Duty Rams are only available in 6-speed auto.
Correct. Let me try to clear it up. The Ram 1500 with the Hemi, along with the Hemi version of the GC gets the heavy duty 8 speed version of the ZF transmission. The VM equipped diesels also get the HD transmission. The Pentastar equipped vehicles get a light duty version. My point is Chrysler is using two versions of the 8 speed ZF transmissions, the heavy duty unit is the better of the two. It should be interesting to see which version the 2018 Wrangler will get.
With regard to the 2500 and 3500 pickups and the 6 speed. Chrysler probably feels the 6 speed is better suited for those.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I'm referring to Chrysler products. IIRC the Hemi and diesel gets the heavy duty version, which is much better than the unit they're using behind the V6.
I'm pretty sure that the Heavy Duty Rams are only available in 6-speed auto.
Correct. Let me try to clear it up. The Ram 1500 with the Hemi, along with the Hemi version of the GC gets the heavy duty 8 speed version of the ZF transmission. The VM equipped diesels also get the HD transmission. The Pentastar equipped vehicles get a light duty version. My point is Chrysler is using two versions of the 8 speed ZF transmissions, the heavy duty unit is the better of the two. It should be interesting to see which version the 2018 Wrangler will get.
With regard to the 2500 and 3500 pickups and the 6 speed. Chrysler probably feels the 6 speed is better suited for those.
My mistake. The "other" Ram diesel completely slipped my mind.
I'm guessing that the current line of 8 speed transmissions is nowhere near the torque capacity to deal with the current Cummins.
I'm guessing that the current line of 8 speed transmissions is nowhere near the torque capacity to deal with the current Cummins.
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Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Yet I know folks here who have criticized the 8 speed in the 300's with the V6, seems to me the programming is the primary fault here...
I think the issue is the 8 speed in the V6 vehicles is not the same 8 speed that's used with the diesel, or Hemi Chrysler products. The HD unit is much better.
8 different 8HP models so far by my count. Used in a ton of new vehicles from Bentley to BMW...
I'm referring to Chrysler products. IIRC the Hemi and diesel gets the heavy duty version, which is much better than the unit they're using behind the V6.
Better how? I have both and don't really see a difference other than the HD shifts much firmer, but that is due to the SRT programming, not the unit itself
I understand the HD unit to be "tougher", and it would have to be, but I just don't see how that makes it better, assuming both units are appropriate for the application they are in. The little Pentastar is never going to be hitting the main shaft with 470lb-ft for example.
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Yet I know folks here who have criticized the 8 speed in the 300's with the V6, seems to me the programming is the primary fault here...
I think the issue is the 8 speed in the V6 vehicles is not the same 8 speed that's used with the diesel, or Hemi Chrysler products. The HD unit is much better.
8 different 8HP models so far by my count. Used in a ton of new vehicles from Bentley to BMW...
I'm referring to Chrysler products. IIRC the Hemi and diesel gets the heavy duty version, which is much better than the unit they're using behind the V6.
Better how? I have both and don't really see a difference other than the HD shifts much firmer, but that is due to the SRT programming, not the unit itself
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Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
My mistake. The "other" Ram diesel completely slipped my mind.
I'm guessing that the current line of 8 speed transmissions is nowhere near the torque capacity to deal with the current Cummins.
It holds up the HellCat OK at least, so we know it can handle >650lb-ft. The Cummins is 800lb-ft behind the auto, 660lb-ft behind the stick.
My mistake. The "other" Ram diesel completely slipped my mind.
I'm guessing that the current line of 8 speed transmissions is nowhere near the torque capacity to deal with the current Cummins.
It holds up the HellCat OK at least, so we know it can handle >650lb-ft. The Cummins is 800lb-ft behind the auto, 660lb-ft behind the stick.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Better how? I have both and don't really see a difference other than the HD shifts much firmer, but that is due to the SRT programming, not the unit itself
I understand the HD unit to be "tougher", and it would have to be, but I just don't see how that makes it better, assuming both units are appropriate for the application they are in. The little Pentastar is never going to be hitting the main shaft with 470lb-ft for example.
I base my comment of better as per a discussion with a tech who works in a high volume Chrysler dealership. Maybe I asked him a loaded question,
which went along these lines: Which is the better ZF transmission, the one behind the hemi, or the one behind the Pentastar? His answer was hands down the unit that goes with the hemi. He also said something about the filter and pan are changed as a unit, and quite expensive. I also have a good friend who owns a Pentastar GC with the 8 speed that had his replaced under warranty. Like you he also owns a Ram Hemi PU which is used to tow quite often. He's at 10K miles more than the GC had when the unit let go, and has zero issues. His comments where similar to yours, the shift is firmer and more authoritative.
It should be interesting to see what the 2018 Wrangler gets, I'm thinking the light duty one.
Better how? I have both and don't really see a difference other than the HD shifts much firmer, but that is due to the SRT programming, not the unit itself
I base my comment of better as per a discussion with a tech who works in a high volume Chrysler dealership. Maybe I asked him a loaded question,
It should be interesting to see what the 2018 Wrangler gets, I'm thinking the light duty one.
This is true, but you must remember the load factor, as well. No Hellcat is ever going to bumping up against nearly 40,000 lbs. in a factory application.
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Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Better how? I have both and don't really see a difference other than the HD shifts much firmer, but that is due to the SRT programming, not the unit itself
I understand the HD unit to be "tougher", and it would have to be, but I just don't see how that makes it better, assuming both units are appropriate for the application they are in. The little Pentastar is never going to be hitting the main shaft with 470lb-ft for example.
I base my comment of better as per a discussion with a tech who works in a high volume Chrysler dealership. Maybe I asked him a loaded question,
which went along these lines: Which is the better ZF transmission, the one behind the hemi, or the one behind the Pentastar? His answer was hands down the unit that goes with the hemi. He also said something about the filter and pan are changed as a unit, and quite expensive. I also have a good friend who owns a Pentastar GC with the 8 speed that had his replaced under warranty. Like you he also owns a Ram Hemi PU which is used to tow quite often. He's at 10K miles more than the GC had when the unit let go, and has zero issues. His comments where similar to yours, the shift is firmer and more authoritative.
It should be interesting to see what the 2018 Wrangler gets, I'm thinking the light duty one.
Ahhh, OK. My buddy at the dealer said basically both are fine for the applications they are used and they rarely see issues with either. On the other hand, he calls the 9spd an absolute piece of junk and they've had plenty of issues with it, lol
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Better how? I have both and don't really see a difference other than the HD shifts much firmer, but that is due to the SRT programming, not the unit itself
I base my comment of better as per a discussion with a tech who works in a high volume Chrysler dealership. Maybe I asked him a loaded question,
It should be interesting to see what the 2018 Wrangler gets, I'm thinking the light duty one.
Ahhh, OK. My buddy at the dealer said basically both are fine for the applications they are used and they rarely see issues with either. On the other hand, he calls the 9spd an absolute piece of junk and they've had plenty of issues with it, lol
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Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
This is true, but you must remember the load factor, as well. No Hellcat is ever going to bumping up against nearly 40,000 lbs. in a factory application.
No, but conversely, you are not likely to see a Cummins RAM at the track with slicks using launch mode either
It will be interesting to see if they do use it behind any heavier duty applications. Ford typically had two or three tiers of trannies with some overlap. The 4R75W for example, followed by the 4R100, which then was replaced by the 5R110, which I don't believe was stuck behind any of the lower tier gassers, unlike the 4R100, which was used in heavy 1/2 ton applications and the Expedition but never the lighter duty stuff like the Mustang, even the high HP ones
Obviously Dodge is doing stuff a bit differently of course.
In the Euro applications, beyond the X5M/X6M, are there any high torque SUV uses of the ZF 8spd?
This is true, but you must remember the load factor, as well. No Hellcat is ever going to bumping up against nearly 40,000 lbs. in a factory application.
No, but conversely, you are not likely to see a Cummins RAM at the track with slicks using launch mode either
It will be interesting to see if they do use it behind any heavier duty applications. Ford typically had two or three tiers of trannies with some overlap. The 4R75W for example, followed by the 4R100, which then was replaced by the 5R110, which I don't believe was stuck behind any of the lower tier gassers, unlike the 4R100, which was used in heavy 1/2 ton applications and the Expedition but never the lighter duty stuff like the Mustang, even the high HP ones
In the Euro applications, beyond the X5M/X6M, are there any high torque SUV uses of the ZF 8spd?
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Better how? I have both and don't really see a difference other than the HD shifts much firmer, but that is due to the SRT programming, not the unit itself
I understand the HD unit to be "tougher", and it would have to be, but I just don't see how that makes it better, assuming both units are appropriate for the application they are in. The little Pentastar is never going to be hitting the main shaft with 470lb-ft for example.
I base my comment of better as per a discussion with a tech who works in a high volume Chrysler dealership. Maybe I asked him a loaded question,
which went along these lines: Which is the better ZF transmission, the one behind the hemi, or the one behind the Pentastar? His answer was hands down the unit that goes with the hemi. He also said something about the filter and pan are changed as a unit, and quite expensive. I also have a good friend who owns a Pentastar GC with the 8 speed that had his replaced under warranty. Like you he also owns a Ram Hemi PU which is used to tow quite often. He's at 10K miles more than the GC had when the unit let go, and has zero issues. His comments where similar to yours, the shift is firmer and more authoritative.
It should be interesting to see what the 2018 Wrangler gets, I'm thinking the light duty one.
Ahhh, OK. My buddy at the dealer said basically both are fine for the applications they are used and they rarely see issues with either. On the other hand, he calls the 9spd an absolute piece of junk and they've had plenty of issues with it, lol
My guy called the 9 speed a total POS, and a few other terms not fit for prime time. LOL He is a fan of the 8 speed though.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Better how? I have both and don't really see a difference other than the HD shifts much firmer, but that is due to the SRT programming, not the unit itself
I base my comment of better as per a discussion with a tech who works in a high volume Chrysler dealership. Maybe I asked him a loaded question,
It should be interesting to see what the 2018 Wrangler gets, I'm thinking the light duty one.
Ahhh, OK. My buddy at the dealer said basically both are fine for the applications they are used and they rarely see issues with either. On the other hand, he calls the 9spd an absolute piece of junk and they've had plenty of issues with it, lol
My guy called the 9 speed a total POS, and a few other terms not fit for prime time. LOL He is a fan of the 8 speed though.
I've seen quite a few Rams at the track in "launch mode"
But seriously, little different especially can be big ones.
At 660 lb/ft, the G56 lives.
At 120 lb/ft more, it's out of the picture, and 68RFE is mandatory.
100 lb/ft more than that, and the 68RFE is out of the picture, and the AS69RC is mandatory.
Not for trivial reason either. Put a basic tune on top of either of the first two transmission's, and they are finished.
But seriously, little different especially can be big ones.
At 660 lb/ft, the G56 lives.
At 120 lb/ft more, it's out of the picture, and 68RFE is mandatory.
100 lb/ft more than that, and the 68RFE is out of the picture, and the AS69RC is mandatory.
Not for trivial reason either. Put a basic tune on top of either of the first two transmission's, and they are finished.
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Yeah, unlike the 5R110, which can handle significantly more than what was put in front of it.
That said however, there are plenty of not-so-stock HellCat's out there, I wonder if they've had durability issues running them at the track? I've not followed that scene enough to know.
That said however, there are plenty of not-so-stock HellCat's out there, I wonder if they've had durability issues running them at the track? I've not followed that scene enough to know.
The 5R110 had plenty of its own problems at factory power levels.
The issue is always about how things hold up under factory testing.
What will take a certain amount of torque for 9-11 seconds may not take the same amount of torque with 5 cars behind it, going up a grade for an hour.
Not taking anything away from the 8sp transmissions at all. Just a matter of them not being meant for certain applications.
The issue is always about how things hold up under factory testing.
What will take a certain amount of torque for 9-11 seconds may not take the same amount of torque with 5 cars behind it, going up a grade for an hour.
Not taking anything away from the 8sp transmissions at all. Just a matter of them not being meant for certain applications.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Better how? I have both and don't really see a difference other than the HD shifts much firmer, but that is due to the SRT programming, not the unit itself
I understand the HD unit to be "tougher", and it would have to be, but I just don't see how that makes it better, assuming both units are appropriate for the application they are in. The little Pentastar is never going to be hitting the main shaft with 470lb-ft for example.
I base my comment of better as per a discussion with a tech who works in a high volume Chrysler dealership. Maybe I asked him a loaded question,
which went along these lines: Which is the better ZF transmission, the one behind the hemi, or the one behind the Pentastar? His answer was hands down the unit that goes with the hemi. He also said something about the filter and pan are changed as a unit, and quite expensive. I also have a good friend who owns a Pentastar GC with the 8 speed that had his replaced under warranty. Like you he also owns a Ram Hemi PU which is used to tow quite often. He's at 10K miles more than the GC had when the unit let go, and has zero issues. His comments where similar to yours, the shift is firmer and more authoritative.
It should be interesting to see what the 2018 Wrangler gets, I'm thinking the light duty one.
The HD unit is the one that also goes to BMW, Audi, Rolls Royce, etc.
Those units have filter and pan integrated (same like my 6 speed ZF on X5) and actually if you buy it yourself is not as expensive. I am about to change fluid and pan and filter unit is $98 on Amazon, ZF made. Pita is fluid which is $26 per liter.
Also, those units in BMW, Audi and what Dodge calls HD unit in RAM have carbon clutch plates.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Better how? I have both and don't really see a difference other than the HD shifts much firmer, but that is due to the SRT programming, not the unit itself
I base my comment of better as per a discussion with a tech who works in a high volume Chrysler dealership. Maybe I asked him a loaded question,
It should be interesting to see what the 2018 Wrangler gets, I'm thinking the light duty one.
The HD unit is the one that also goes to BMW, Audi, Rolls Royce, etc.
Those units have filter and pan integrated (same like my 6 speed ZF on X5) and actually if you buy it yourself is not as expensive. I am about to change fluid and pan and filter unit is $98 on Amazon, ZF made. Pita is fluid which is $26 per liter.
Also, those units in BMW, Audi and what Dodge calls HD unit in RAM have carbon clutch plates.
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Better how? I have both and don't really see a difference other than the HD shifts much firmer, but that is due to the SRT programming, not the unit itself
I understand the HD unit to be "tougher", and it would have to be, but I just don't see how that makes it better, assuming both units are appropriate for the application they are in. The little Pentastar is never going to be hitting the main shaft with 470lb-ft for example.
I base my comment of better as per a discussion with a tech who works in a high volume Chrysler dealership. Maybe I asked him a loaded question,
which went along these lines: Which is the better ZF transmission, the one behind the hemi, or the one behind the Pentastar? His answer was hands down the unit that goes with the hemi. He also said something about the filter and pan are changed as a unit, and quite expensive. I also have a good friend who owns a Pentastar GC with the 8 speed that had his replaced under warranty. Like you he also owns a Ram Hemi PU which is used to tow quite often. He's at 10K miles more than the GC had when the unit let go, and has zero issues. His comments where similar to yours, the shift is firmer and more authoritative.
It should be interesting to see what the 2018 Wrangler gets, I'm thinking the light duty one.
The HD unit is the one that also goes to BMW, Audi, Rolls Royce, etc.
Those units have filter and pan integrated (same like my 6 speed ZF on X5) and actually if you buy it yourself is not as expensive. I am about to change fluid and pan and filter unit is $98 on Amazon, ZF made. Pita is fluid which is $26 per liter.
Also, those units in BMW, Audi and what Dodge calls HD unit in RAM have carbon clutch plates.
I read about the fluid being expensive. I think some of them are stating they're supposed to be filled for life. Good luck with that as many of us here would say. Good on you for servicing it. I could easily live with the $98 cost for the pan and filter. I heard early reports of it costing $200 or more. I would imagine the cost of the fluid will come down eventually as well. Enjoy!
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Better how? I have both and don't really see a difference other than the HD shifts much firmer, but that is due to the SRT programming, not the unit itself
I base my comment of better as per a discussion with a tech who works in a high volume Chrysler dealership. Maybe I asked him a loaded question,
It should be interesting to see what the 2018 Wrangler gets, I'm thinking the light duty one.
The HD unit is the one that also goes to BMW, Audi, Rolls Royce, etc.
Those units have filter and pan integrated (same like my 6 speed ZF on X5) and actually if you buy it yourself is not as expensive. I am about to change fluid and pan and filter unit is $98 on Amazon, ZF made. Pita is fluid which is $26 per liter.
Also, those units in BMW, Audi and what Dodge calls HD unit in RAM have carbon clutch plates.
I read about the fluid being expensive. I think some of them are stating they're supposed to be filled for life. Good luck with that as many of us here would say. Good on you for servicing it. I could easily live with the $98 cost for the pan and filter. I heard early reports of it costing $200 or more. I would imagine the cost of the fluid will come down eventually as well. Enjoy!
Bentley is my favorite example of the durability of 8 speed ZF boxes. They seem to have high torque, heavy weight AND lots of HP.
They have been running the ZF 8 speed for years before Dodge or any domestic without issues. Nearly failure free...
They have been running the ZF 8 speed for years before Dodge or any domestic without issues. Nearly failure free...
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Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
The 5R110 had plenty of its own problems at factory power levels.
The issue is always about how things hold up under factory testing.
What will take a certain amount of torque for 9-11 seconds may not take the same amount of torque with 5 cars behind it, going up a grade for an hour.
Not taking anything away from the 8sp transmissions at all. Just a matter of them not being meant for certain applications.
True, but it was also used behind various International engines in school busses, straight trucks...etc. It was quite surprised to see that for the first time. But it is a physically huge transmission (the 5R110), not sure how big the 8spd is, but I know the difference between the 5R110 and the 4R75W was massive (size-wise).
And agreed on the E/T point, but how many times you can do that 9-11 seconds without breaking something.... Look how many trucks the TH350 and TH400 were in, yet I'm sure you've seen many of them grenade at the track when they aren't built. I know I have. So there are at least some parallels that can be drawn here IMHO.
The 5R110 had plenty of its own problems at factory power levels.
The issue is always about how things hold up under factory testing.
What will take a certain amount of torque for 9-11 seconds may not take the same amount of torque with 5 cars behind it, going up a grade for an hour.
Not taking anything away from the 8sp transmissions at all. Just a matter of them not being meant for certain applications.
True, but it was also used behind various International engines in school busses, straight trucks...etc. It was quite surprised to see that for the first time. But it is a physically huge transmission (the 5R110), not sure how big the 8spd is, but I know the difference between the 5R110 and the 4R75W was massive (size-wise).
And agreed on the E/T point, but how many times you can do that 9-11 seconds without breaking something.... Look how many trucks the TH350 and TH400 were in, yet I'm sure you've seen many of them grenade at the track when they aren't built. I know I have. So there are at least some parallels that can be drawn here IMHO.
where have you been?
honda BAXA/MAXA do that....in 99!
Originally Posted By: B320i
9 speeds is too many speeds.
After 100K of going up and down through all those gears, it will be completely knackered and the lower gears in particular will get quite rough. With this many gears, you'd be better with a CVT.
What I would LIKE to see in transmissions for normal automotive applications is programming that detects hills and automatically kicks down (like Voith and ZF transmissions on buses do). The other aspect of this feature is hill descents, where autos have a nasty tendency of racing ahead - the hill sensing would then hold a lower gear, with locked torque converter for engine braking.
On that note, a hydraulic retarder device would be nice, too!
In most autos, I manually go through the gears anyway, particularly in situations where varying acceleration can cause too much up & down shifting. I also prefer to use engine brake over standing on the brakes in an auto. I've noticed on some vehicles that the torque-converter locks up in the lower gears in manual mode, whereas it won't when left in "D."
My other gripe is my overtaking technique; in a manual such as my E36, I drop (a) gear and floor it - but keep 3-4K RPM. In an auto, the trans will assume you want to rev out to line - making such a maneuver very awkward, particularly as you wait for the transmission to figure out how many gears to (roughly) shift through...
honda BAXA/MAXA do that....in 99!
Originally Posted By: B320i
9 speeds is too many speeds.
After 100K of going up and down through all those gears, it will be completely knackered and the lower gears in particular will get quite rough. With this many gears, you'd be better with a CVT.
What I would LIKE to see in transmissions for normal automotive applications is programming that detects hills and automatically kicks down (like Voith and ZF transmissions on buses do). The other aspect of this feature is hill descents, where autos have a nasty tendency of racing ahead - the hill sensing would then hold a lower gear, with locked torque converter for engine braking.
On that note, a hydraulic retarder device would be nice, too!
In most autos, I manually go through the gears anyway, particularly in situations where varying acceleration can cause too much up & down shifting. I also prefer to use engine brake over standing on the brakes in an auto. I've noticed on some vehicles that the torque-converter locks up in the lower gears in manual mode, whereas it won't when left in "D."
My other gripe is my overtaking technique; in a manual such as my E36, I drop (a) gear and floor it - but keep 3-4K RPM. In an auto, the trans will assume you want to rev out to line - making such a maneuver very awkward, particularly as you wait for the transmission to figure out how many gears to (roughly) shift through...
Originally Posted By: kc8adu
where have you been?
honda BAXA/MAXA do that....in 99!
I actually went and did a bit of research, supposedly Honda transmissions do preserve some engine braking since their "Hondamatic" transmission many years ago.
Have not driven a Honda, so cannot comment on that. Can't image they would be hugely different to a regular automatic - torque converter MUST lockup to provide that direct link to the drive train, otherwise on even a slight downward slope, you'll keep accelerating.
where have you been?
honda BAXA/MAXA do that....in 99!
I actually went and did a bit of research, supposedly Honda transmissions do preserve some engine braking since their "Hondamatic" transmission many years ago.
Have not driven a Honda, so cannot comment on that. Can't image they would be hugely different to a regular automatic - torque converter MUST lockup to provide that direct link to the drive train, otherwise on even a slight downward slope, you'll keep accelerating.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Better how? I have both and don't really see a difference other than the HD shifts much firmer, but that is due to the SRT programming, not the unit itself
I understand the HD unit to be "tougher", and it would have to be, but I just don't see how that makes it better, assuming both units are appropriate for the application they are in. The little Pentastar is never going to be hitting the main shaft with 470lb-ft for example.
I base my comment of better as per a discussion with a tech who works in a high volume Chrysler dealership. Maybe I asked him a loaded question,
which went along these lines: Which is the better ZF transmission, the one behind the hemi, or the one behind the Pentastar? His answer was hands down the unit that goes with the hemi. He also said something about the filter and pan are changed as a unit, and quite expensive. I also have a good friend who owns a Pentastar GC with the 8 speed that had his replaced under warranty. Like you he also owns a Ram Hemi PU which is used to tow quite often. He's at 10K miles more than the GC had when the unit let go, and has zero issues. His comments where similar to yours, the shift is firmer and more authoritative.
It should be interesting to see what the 2018 Wrangler gets, I'm thinking the light duty one.
The HD unit is the one that also goes to BMW, Audi, Rolls Royce, etc.
Those units have filter and pan integrated (same like my 6 speed ZF on X5) and actually if you buy it yourself is not as expensive. I am about to change fluid and pan and filter unit is $98 on Amazon, ZF made. Pita is fluid which is $26 per liter.
Also, those units in BMW, Audi and what Dodge calls HD unit in RAM have carbon clutch plates.
I read about the fluid being expensive. I think some of them are stating they're supposed to be filled for life. Good luck with that as many of us here would say. Good on you for servicing it. I could easily live with the $98 cost for the pan and filter. I heard early reports of it costing $200 or more. I would imagine the cost of the fluid will come down eventually as well. Enjoy!
They keep price. But, that is ZF fluid. Now, you can use fluids that also meet ZF requirements, and for example Valvoline Maxlife Full Synthetic meets it, Castrols, Mobil1, Redline etc. I decided to use ZF6 since I am not going to do flush, of course. So do not want to mix fluids.
As for change interval, this is tricky. Each car manufacturer has its own recommendation. BMW claims it is life fluid. If to be changed, they recommend on 100K. ZF on other hand recommends change between 60K and 75K. I am going with ZF in this case!
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Better how? I have both and don't really see a difference other than the HD shifts much firmer, but that is due to the SRT programming, not the unit itself
I base my comment of better as per a discussion with a tech who works in a high volume Chrysler dealership. Maybe I asked him a loaded question,
It should be interesting to see what the 2018 Wrangler gets, I'm thinking the light duty one.
The HD unit is the one that also goes to BMW, Audi, Rolls Royce, etc.
Those units have filter and pan integrated (same like my 6 speed ZF on X5) and actually if you buy it yourself is not as expensive. I am about to change fluid and pan and filter unit is $98 on Amazon, ZF made. Pita is fluid which is $26 per liter.
Also, those units in BMW, Audi and what Dodge calls HD unit in RAM have carbon clutch plates.
I read about the fluid being expensive. I think some of them are stating they're supposed to be filled for life. Good luck with that as many of us here would say. Good on you for servicing it. I could easily live with the $98 cost for the pan and filter. I heard early reports of it costing $200 or more. I would imagine the cost of the fluid will come down eventually as well. Enjoy!
They keep price. But, that is ZF fluid. Now, you can use fluids that also meet ZF requirements, and for example Valvoline Maxlife Full Synthetic meets it, Castrols, Mobil1, Redline etc. I decided to use ZF6 since I am not going to do flush, of course. So do not want to mix fluids.
As for change interval, this is tricky. Each car manufacturer has its own recommendation. BMW claims it is life fluid. If to be changed, they recommend on 100K. ZF on other hand recommends change between 60K and 75K. I am going with ZF in this case!
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