Harman Index for 0W20s....

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badtlc

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I thought people might be interested in a harmon "database" thread for 0W20 oils since these tend to have some very high amounts of VIIs. Please use this to discuss the values and oils. Please avoid debate about whether the Harmon index is applicable or not. That is not the intent of this thread.

Here is what I have found so far:

Amsoil:
- OE (0.965 to 0.976, range due to range of density value)
- XL (0.96 to 0.971)
- SS (0.918)

Castrol:
- Edge (0.897)
- Edge EP (0.870)
- OE [Mazda Dealer bulk] (0.905)

Mobil 1:
- AFE (0.927)
- EP (0.944)

Pennzoil:
- Platinum PP(0.955, assumed HTHS=2.6, please let me know if incorrect)
- UP (0.892, assumed HTHS=2.6, please let me know if incorrect)

Valvoline:
- Synpower (0.891, assumed HTHS=2.6)
- Maxlife SB (0.896, assumed HTHS=2.6)
- Maxlife FS (0.889, assumed HTHS=2.6)

Redline: no density information available


I will try to add more later.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: SumpChump
Do you have a link that explains the Index or if a lower number means "more" VII in the oil?


The lower the number, in general the more VIIs that are part of the blend.
 
I did the following series of calculations for Red Line's street oils:
0w20 = .909
0w30 = .821
0w40 = .778
5w20 = .984
5w30 = .938
5w40 = .877
5w50 = .752
10w30 = .934
10w40 = .914
10w50 = .801
10w60 = .731
15w40 = 1.027
15w50 = .973
20w50 = 1.034

Per datasheet dated 5/13
All assuming density = .89 (per MSDS)

The trend with increasing viscosity spread is unmistakable.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
TGMO
KV40 36.1
KV100 10.6
density 0.851
HTHS 2.6
Harman Index 0.844

(from Shannow)

TGMO:
cST @ 40C: 36.82
cST @ 100c: 8.49
density 0.85 (guess)
HTHS: 2.6
Harman Index 0.852
from this thread:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...ere#Post3590331

Also, for AFE 0w-20:
AFE 0w-20:
KV100: 8.7
KV40: 45.8
Density: 0.841
HTHS: 2.7
KV150: 2.89

Harman Index: 0.934 (different than the OP's).


Does the difference in the KV values for TGMO and AFE have a notable significance in application or utility?
 
What is the point of this thread again? What's listing a bunch of numbers going to accomplish here?

So we have oils that are well below 1 and some that are close to 1 and then some that are over 1. What does it all mean without discussing the relevance of sucha number?
 
I gotta say I am impressed with the cheapo Amsoil offerings so far.
 
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
What is the point of this thread again? What's listing a bunch of numbers going to accomplish here?

So we have oils that are well below 1 and some that are close to 1 and then some that are over 1. What does it all mean without discussing the relevance of sucha number?


It just gives a general indication of how much VII is used.
 
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
What is the point of this thread again? What's listing a bunch of numbers going to accomplish here?

So we have oils that are well below 1 and some that are close to 1 and then some that are over 1. What does it all mean without discussing the relevance of sucha number?


Go to the other thread if you want to read the discussion.
 
RLI 0W20 - 0.951

Trop Artic 0W20 - 0.882

Mag1 0W20 - 0.974

Motul 0W20 - 0.942
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
TGMO
KV40 36.1
KV100 10.6
density 0.851
HTHS 2.6
Harman Index 0.844

(from Shannow)


Sorry OVERKILL, the 10.6 was a transposition of Amsoils ACD's (next line up[ on my graph book)

KV40 36.1
KV100 10.6 8.5
density 0.851
HTHS 2.6
Harman Index 0.844

HTHS is as per CATERHAM, the rest off the MSDS.
 
Originally Posted By: badtlc
RLI 0W20 - 0.951

Trop Artic 0W20 - 0.882

Mag1 0W20 - 0.974

Motul 0W20 - 0.942


Mag1 0W20 is great, better than M1 EP.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Anyone know HTHS for Eneos 0w20?


It's posited that these economy 20s would naturally have an HTHS right at the bottom of the scale, and possibly drift into 16 grade early in their service life...it's what I work with when checking those oils.
 
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR

Mag1 0W20 is great, better than M1 EP.


It is good but M1 looks to pull ahead in very cold performance.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
TGMO
KV40 36.1
KV100 10.6
density 0.851
HTHS 2.6
Harman Index 0.844

(from Shannow)


Sorry OVERKILL, the 10.6 was a transposition of Amsoils ACD's (next line up[ on my graph book)

KV40 36.1
KV100 10.6 8.5
density 0.851
HTHS 2.6
Harman Index 0.844

HTHS is as per CATERHAM, the rest off the MSDS.


Thanks the for clarification
thumbsup2.gif
 
These recent discussions on the VI of the basestocks used versus the VI of the finished product have me rethinking the desriability of TGMO 0W-20.
Maybe the TGMO is simply a VII-rich Grp III blend?
It does have inferior cold performance as compared to M1 AFE 0W-20.
Some of the very high VI oils may simply be very high VII oils.
If Harmon's hypothesis is valid, this may very well be the case.
 
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