Lower Priced Indian Models

[Robenstein]

Originally Posted By: Silverado12
It's a lil cheaper than the Victory Judge, but I think they should have used the air cooled engine. It may grow on me, though.



The Judge MSRP was 13,999 for 2014. It may be dropped for 2015 as it is not listed for the coming model year. The Scout MSRP's for 10,999. So its 3k cheaper. It is closest to the Vegas 8 ball which sells for 12,499.

As for the engine, I would have supported the used of the Freedom 106 if it was dressed up externally to look distinct from Victory. Otherwise you would get too much melding of the brands, and honestly the new Scout mill puts out really good power at a much smaller displacement. For people who have entry level money and want an American v twin, it really allows them a fuller sized bike where Harley only offers the 1200 Sportster and the much smaller engined Street series.

I think and hope it will bring many more people to the brand. America needs more viable and unique brands.

 

[LoneRanger]

Originally Posted By: Robenstein

I think and hope it will bring many more people to the brand. America needs more viable and unique brands.


Amen, brother. Actually, Indian is good for Harley-Davidson as it not only may keep them on their toes but anything that draws buyers' eyes to companies inside our shores is good for the market and thus good for all competitors for that market.

...but here I sit astride an Italian bike, lol. Hey that doesn't count though! I'd also love to have an Indian! Or a Harley FLD Dyna Switchback! As 2nd bikes sharing the garage with the Duck.

 

[Robenstein]

Well some of us like foreign bikes, but there is a segment of the biker population that will only buy American bikes. Up until now they really only had HD. Indian offers a viable second option for those people.

Plus as a historian I like to see these old names come back. Triumph, Norton, Indian...warms my heart with nostalgia.

 

[02SE]

Originally Posted By: Robenstein
Well some of us like foreign bikes, but there is a segment of the biker population that will only buy American bikes. Up until now they really only had HD. Indian offers a viable second option for those people.

Plus as a historian I like to see these old names come back. Triumph, Norton, Indian...warms my heart with nostalgia.


Erik Buell Racing motorcycles are a third viable option.

 

[Robenstein]

Buell sources his engines from Rotax of Austria if I recall correctly, so it is kind of a grey area for me.

 

[02SE]

Well, then there is lots of grey area to go around. Harley has used Showa forks and shocks ( Honda affiliate) for a long time.

The primary chains have been and probably still are supplied by Regina, an Italian company.

Bearings supplied by INA/Schaeffler Group, a German company.

Keihin carburetor on the older carbureted models.

 

[Robenstein]

Oh I know all the foreign parts on a Harley, but the engine itself is Harley's own proprietary platform/design. The Rotax twin is sourced for Buell as well as for other machines like the Can Am Spyder, so yes it is grey area.

 

[JPowell490]

I bought a new 2008 Buell 1125R when they first came out. It was the biggest POS I have ever swung my leg over. It spent it's first five months in the Harley dealer. They knew nothing about a Buell so that didn't make it much better.

The Rotax engine, I never had any issues with it specifically, but they do sound like they are about to fall apart at any minute. Very, very noisy. I understand that the followers are the cause of this noise and it is somewhat normal for that engine and the Ducati's.

I would never, ever purchase another Buell product, of any kind.

 

[BigCahuna]

Originally Posted By: Robenstein
Shearing is one issue with unit construction. The other is that if you get damage to the engine casing for instance the whole case is junk. With harley having separate primary, engine, and trans if one gets damaged it does not take the rest with it.

However unit construction historically made for stronger drivetrains and cheaper, easier, and more efficient assembly at the factory. Like all things it is a mixed bag.
Another point you need to remember that is, on a Harley if the transmission needs service, you can pick up a used trans for as low as $250, and in a few hours, all the guts can be changed. Now, whats involved if the trans on your Goldwing needs to be serviced? I'm guessing it will just take a trip to the hardware store for a "For Sale" sign. Nobody wants to eat that bill.,,

 

[Robenstein]

Well the Buell in 2008 and the Buell that exists now are completely two different entities. Buell had to deal with constant Harley interference from 2003 to 2009 when it was a whole owned Harley subsidiary of "the company". When Harley killed Buell off and Erik Buell set up shop on his own, he was able to do things his way for the first time in a long time.

I can see how some Harley mechanics would be less than competent on a Rotax twin.

 

[FastGame]

Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
Originally Posted By: Robenstein
Shearing is one issue with unit construction. The other is that if you get damage to the engine casing for instance the whole case is junk. With harley having separate primary, engine, and trans if one gets damaged it does not take the rest with it.

However unit construction historically made for stronger drivetrains and cheaper, easier, and more efficient assembly at the factory. Like all things it is a mixed bag.
Another point you need to remember that is, on a Harley if the transmission needs service, you can pick up a used trans for as low as $250, and in a few hours, all the guts can be changed. Now, whats involved if the trans on your Goldwing needs to be serviced? I'm guessing it will just take a trip to the hardware store for a "For Sale" sign. Nobody wants to eat that bill.,,


Other than a clutch (like any bike) what goes wrong with the Goldwing trans ? Nothing.....Oh never mind I see you were "guessing"

Now, do a Craigslist search in Michigan....looks like a lot of Harley guys made that "trip to the hardware store for a "For Sale" sign."

HaHa

 

[BigCahuna]

Dream on. The reason you never hear about bad Goldwing trans is because nobody can justify the cost to fix them. They just keep crunching the gears, or skip a gear. Ha Ha ha. Cl has lots of every bike there is for sale. Wings included.,,

 

[Robenstein]

More than likely you will need to replace/rebuild an engine in a Harley before a transmission or engine in a gold wing if both are maintained equally well. So it is a good thing a Harley trans is so cheap to replace, helps you pay for that engine you need. That is the downside of an air cooled motor, they tend to not last as long.

That is not what this thread is about. If you made the new Indians a non unit construction bike, the price would likely be much higher. And with the disposable culture we live in, most people will never experience a worn out transmission if they treat their machines well. Few of us Americans ride our bikes till they fall apart anymore, we trade them off with tens of thousands of miles still on their clocks.

 

[BigCahuna]

If you do a Google search you'll find alot of bad Goldwing trans problems posted. Like this one. You can get your blue and gold Goldwing rags out and cry along.http://gl1800riders.com/forums/showthread.php?303392-GL1800-Transmission-Woes-Tech-Question

 

[Robenstein]

If you do a google search on any bike you will find people complaining about them. I know I see lots and lots of goldwings out there, older and newer with tons of miles on them before they needed serious work. Mileage that you will be lucky to find in an air cooled bike still running its factory original engine. Doesn't matter if it is a harley, a yamaha, or a Triumph. Air cooled mills tend to die sooner.

I don't own a Honda, let alone a goldwing. I don't care for the whole touring/bagger style of bike at all.

 

[DuckRyder]

Another video talking about the design... I don't see a lot of what they are talking about in the finished bike, more so in some of the clay models.

Thinking more about it, I think if you took the emblems off this could be a bike from nearly anyone, it has some ques that come off as vintage Indian because it is an Indian, but they are really fairly generic IMO.



This video is sort of hokey, but it has a shot of a new scout with wire wheels and some custom touches, which I think improve it.

 

[LoneRanger]

The more I look at it the more I think the radiator is too noticeable. All engineering design efforts need to be put forth on a liquid cooled bike to keep the radiator under stated. I guess on a naked though there is no way to close it in like is done on bikes with panels and cowling.

 

[BigCahuna]

The New Indian motorcycle company has NO connection with the OLD Indian motorcycle company. Their heritage goes all they way back 2 or 3 years . There is no connection with this company, and the Old company, NONE. They are trying to resurrect a iconic brand, that they had NO hand in. I might be inclined to accept the bike as an alternative to Harley, if they weren't trying to FALSELY sell the idea that they are somehow tied to the original motorcycle company. They are just the second group of people to BUY the Indian NAME. Their only connection to the original company took place in a lawyers office.,,

 

[whip]

Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
The New Indian motorcycle company has NO connection with the OLD Indian motorcycle company. Their heritage goes all they way back 2 or 3 years . There is no connection with this company, and the Old company, NONE. They are trying to resurrect a iconic brand, that they had NO hand in. I might be inclined to accept the bike as an alternative to Harley, if they weren't trying to FALSELY sell the idea that they are somehow tied to the original motorcycle company. They are just the second group of people to BUY the Indian NAME. Their only connection to the original company took place in a lawyers office.,,

Is this news to anyone? Because the Indian name was bought, you can't accept them as an American made alternative? Are you really that insecure in your brand? Do you accept Victory as an American alternative brand? Does it matter to anyone if you accept them or not? How does that affect me?

On a side note, is it possible to have a mature discusion about motorcycles without it turning into a [censored] match?

 

[BigCahuna]

Originally Posted By: whip
Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
The New Indian motorcycle company has NO connection with the OLD Indian motorcycle company. Their heritage goes all they way back 2 or 3 years . There is no connection with this company, and the Old company, NONE. They are trying to resurrect a iconic brand, that they had NO hand in. I might be inclined to accept the bike as an alternative to Harley, if they weren't trying to FALSELY sell the idea that they are somehow tied to the original motorcycle company. They are just the second group of people to BUY the Indian NAME. Their only connection to the original company took place in a lawyers office.,,

Is this news to anyone? Because the Indian name was bought, you can't accept them as an American made alternative? Are you really that insecure in your brand? Do you accept Victory as an American alternative brand? Does it matter to anyone if you accept them or not? How does that affect me?

On a side note, is it possible to have a mature discusion about motorcycles without it turning into a [censored] match?
Sure it is. Just don't spew blatant lies to the public and expect them to believe them. Insecure? you must be new here. I guess you believe that hogwash they are trying to sell about heritage. I really don't care if it affects you or not.My comments are put here to make sure no one gets snookered into thinking they buying something marketed as truth,but is a lie. I see no proof Indian is going to hurt Harleys sales any more then all the others that came in thinking they are the next "big thing", only to be run off and barely heard from again. Their bikes look old based on the same V-Twin motor that's been around for ages, thanks to Harley. And even their newest model has a striking resemblance to the V-Rod. Yea, they are real creative. Until they can build a dealer network as fast as Harley's, they won't do well. And if the mother company that also owns Victory motorcycles, doesn't feel their making enough money in this venue, the "company" known as Indian will be sold off to the next highest bidder. At least at that point you'll be able to track it's "heritage".,,