Lower Priced Indian Models

[Robenstein]

If you are going to defend Harley by attacking Indian's marketing as "dishonest", then you are not going to look very good given the marketing tactics the milwaukee company uses.

I will say this about Indian...just because someone ran the company into the ground back in the 1950's does not mean that the brand itself does not have a storied and rich history. And because someone ran it into the ground 60 years ago someone else had to resurrect it and has to build it back up. Bloor did it with Triumph, and now Polaris has to do it with Indian. The current incarnation of Indian is new, but the brand itself is old. That is the message I get when I watch their videos.

 

[grampi]

Bigcahuna is just sore because Indian and Victory both build better rides than his beloved company...

 

[BigCahuna]

The brand name is old. What I'm saying is, don't say you have some connection to the "old brand", just because you put money on the table and signed some papers, 60 years after the company went out of business. Now there might be some element of truth to what they are saying if, someone in the new company was a real blood relive to the original company founders. You can't buy ancestry.,,

 

[Robenstein]

There is a connection if you honor the heritage of the company you purchased. I would say they are doing just that. Most people who bought new Indians in the old days are too old to ride or just dead. So they are not playing on the heart strings of nostalgia. I think Polaris is simply trying to do two things

1. Honor the brand and how it was a formative force in the early years of motorcycling in the USA.

2. Take the past strengths and adapt them to the modern world.

I personally see nothing wrong with what they are doing. And honestly if you take your train of thought and look at Harley Davidson, then when AMF got some lawyers and wrote a check, there was not a single genuine Harley made from 1969 to 1981 when the relatives bought it back.

 

[bulwnkl]

I rather like this model! And I'm pleased to see that Polaris isn't planning to make Indian a priced-sky-high-only lineup.

Originally Posted By: Robenstein
Well some of us like foreign bikes, but there is a segment of the biker population that will only buy American bikes. Up until now they really only had HD. Indian offers a viable second option for those people.


I don't follow cruisers or v-twins as much, so I probably missed it: Is Victory not an American bike?

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: bulwnkl
I rather like this model! And I'm pleased to see that Polaris isn't planning to make Indian a priced-sky-high-only lineup.

Originally Posted By: Robenstein
Well some of us like foreign bikes, but there is a segment of the biker population that will only buy American bikes. Up until now they really only had HD. Indian offers a viable second option for those people.


I don't follow cruisers or v-twins as much, so I probably missed it: Is Victory not an American bike?


Since Victory was already around, I think he meant to say Indian offers a 3rd choice...

 

[simple_gifts]

That is a nice looking bike IMHO. If things go as planned, I will be winning their sweepstakes and won't have to purchase one.

Bigcahuna can get a test ride if he wants....

 

[BigCahuna]

Originally Posted By: Robenstein
There is a connection if you honor the heritage of the company you purchased. I would say they are doing just that. Most people who bought new Indians in the old days are too old to ride or just dead. So they are not playing on the heart strings of nostalgia. I think Polaris is simply trying to do two things

1. Honor the brand and how it was a formative force in the early years of motorcycling in the USA.

2. Take the past strengths and adapt them to the modern world.

I personally see nothing wrong with what they are doing. And honestly if you take your train of thought and look at Harley Davidson, then when AMF got some lawyers and wrote a check, there was not a single genuine Harley made from 1969 to 1981 when the relatives bought it back.
No there's not. They are trying to play on the nostalgic heart strings of potential customers. At the very least Harley with some family members bought Harley back. They didn't buy a name that they had absolutely no connection to , and try to come on like they were part of it's success. If the investor's and family didn't take control back, the company more then likely would be gone. They had the connection to the company. Hey, if anyone gets suckered into buying the lie they are trying to sell that they have, had, or ever will have any connection to the original Indian motorcyle company don't get upset when you get told the real Indian company went out of business in 1954. Trying to honor a brand by claiming to be a part of it's history when you just paid for the name, is dishonoring the name.,,

 

[Robenstein]

In my mind I lumped Victory and Indian together as they are both Polaris owned.

The heart strings of nostalgic customers are likely too elderly to ride anymore if they are still alive at all. If you bought a new Indian when you were 16 you would be 76 now...so I don't think that is the strategy at all since that customer base is almost extinct. In all their events and press releases they do not hide the fact this is a new incarnation of the brand trying to resurrect it in a new century.

And again, you skipped over in your mind the 69-81 AMF era when there was no one at HD from the original families. Brands outlive families. Louis Chevrolet, Walter P Chrysler, the Dodge Brothers, etc...have not had their families involved in any major way with the companies that have their names in many decades. That does not mean the brand is not genuine. The fact is companies sometimes outlive and evolve past their creators and their descendents. Harley is the exception, not the rule.

 

[LoneRanger]

Robenstein's points are valid. When I look at the Indian model lineup and look at the vintage Indian's there is a sh!t ton of heritage being honored and carried on. While the new Scout is a toss-up for me, the other three bikes they offer look like pure vintage Indian resurrected and oh-so-subtly modernized. Their engines put out more power than HD's and look a lot better doing it. Got nothing against the look of the HD v-twin but the Thunderstroke 111 is a work of art. Hang a Dirty Bird Concepts Peace Pipe exhaust on it and it sounds great. Don're care how any detractors want to smear it, the new Indian Motorcycle Company is good for American made motorcycling.

Something about the new Indians just makes them look more fitted to a Route 66 cross country tour than any Harley Davidson. They look more iconic or something.

 

[Robenstein]

Indeed the Thunderstroke 111 engine does have that vintage appeal to its looks that is also very functional. I would give a similar thumbs up if Harley made a bike that had an engine that had the visual cues of a knucklehead.

 

[FastGame]

I know one thing for sure, fit & finish on the Indian is second to none ! best I've ever seen. I'll lump Victory in there also.

 

[bulwnkl]

Originally Posted By: Robenstein
In my mind I lumped Victory and Indian together as they are both Polaris owned.


Fair enough; thanks. Just wondered if I'd missed something about the Victorys.

For my part, I do wish that Indian and Victory offered a non-counter-balanced, rubber-mounted engine like H-D offers. There's a very noticeable difference between how quickly the non-balanced Harleys rev vs the balanced ones, to me. Also, despite the ludicrous shaking at idle, I find the rubber-mount Harleys to be the smoothest motors when on the road.

 

[BigCahuna]

This Indian has as much "heritage" as what they're trying to pass off as an Indian these days. http://newjersey.craigslist.org/mcy/4599223251.html

 

[LoneRanger]

Indian Motorcycle Company has been resurrected, it's that simple. Yeah, it was dead, but now it's been brought back to life.

 

[whip]

Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
Indian Motorcycle Company has been resurrected, it's that simple. Yeah, it was dead, but now it's been brought back to life.

I thought that was pretty clear to anyone with half a brain. The name has tradition, nothing more.

 

[Robenstein]

Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
This Indian has as much "heritage" as what they're trying to pass off as an Indian these days. http://newjersey.craigslist.org/mcy/4599223251.html


I seem to remember your darling Harley Davidson at one time throwing their name on the tank of Italian Aermacchi bikes. So I don't know what you are trying to prove there. Not to mention that HD has bikes that are just as divorced from their mechanical heritage as this Indian is from the ones last churned out by the original Indian 60 years ago. The Street 500 and 750 as well as the VRSC spring to mind.

Sometimes I think brand loyalists just like to take a whiz all over other brands when the competition does well. The fact is these bikes appear to be well built, at a very reasonable price, and will offer more choices for American assembled bikes, and will only make the field better not worse. Not sure really what there is to legitimately complain about.

 

[whip]

Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
Originally Posted By: whip
Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
The New Indian motorcycle company has NO connection with the OLD Indian motorcycle company. Their heritage goes all they way back 2 or 3 years . There is no connection with this company, and the Old company, NONE. They are trying to resurrect a iconic brand, that they had NO hand in. I might be inclined to accept the bike as an alternative to Harley, if they weren't trying to FALSELY sell the idea that they are somehow tied to the original motorcycle company. They are just the second group of people to BUY the Indian NAME. Their only connection to the original company took place in a lawyers office.,,

Is this news to anyone? Because the Indian name was bought, you can't accept them as an American made alternative? Are you really that insecure in your brand? Do you accept Victory as an American alternative brand? Does it matter to anyone if you accept them or not? How does that affect me?

On a side note, is it possible to have a mature discusion about motorcycles without it turning into a [censored] match?
Sure it is. Just don't spew blatant lies to the public and expect them to believe them. Insecure? you must be new here. I guess you believe that hogwash they are trying to sell about heritage. I really don't care if it affects you or not.My comments are put here to make sure no one gets snookered into thinking they buying something marketed as truth,but is a lie. I see no proof Indian is going to hurt Harleys sales any more then all the others that came in thinking they are the next "big thing", only to be run off and barely heard from again. Their bikes look old based on the same V-Twin motor that's been around for ages, thanks to Harley. And even their newest model has a striking resemblance to the V-Rod. Yea, they are real creative. Until they can build a dealer network as fast as Harley's, they won't do well. And if the mother company that also owns Victory motorcycles, doesn't feel their making enough money in this venue, the "company" known as Indian will be sold off to the next highest bidder. At least at that point you'll be able to track it's "heritage".,,

If your problem is with the marketing, how do you justify owning a Harley? They claim to be American made, yet over half the parts are foreign? I recall an ad about being independent, yet at the same time they want you to buy the clothing and blend in with the pack. Is that lie OK? What other companies do you hold to this lofty standard of pure truth or boycott? I assume not many? Can you list the other companies you boycott for bad marketing?
I assume you'd be smart enough to know that Polaris won't be selling Indian any time soon. You mentioned these companies that have been run off to never be heard from again. Has Victory been run off?

 

[whip]

Originally Posted By: Robenstein
Not sure really what there is to legitimately complain about.

If a person has blind loyalty, they fear competition. I embrace it, because it makes everyone better.

 

[BigCahuna]

Victory isn't considered any more of a threat then indian, yamaha, suzuki, or kawasaki thought they were. Have they done anything to unseat Harley as the king? Nope. What company do I hold to a higher standard of pure truth or boycott? Yamaha, Suzuki, and Kawasaki. I would never buy one, but at least they don't claim to be something they are not. Look, if you either enjoy, or don't mind having the wool pulled over your eyes by the new and improved Indian company, go buy one of their bikes. But $26,000 for a bikes with little or no dealer network support, is way too much for me to spend. Buy whatever you want, just don't say you weren't informed .,,