Fram that didn't prime on its own [anecdote]
- Thread starter Cardenio327
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That's an oil pump issue and not an oil filter problem. Some engines are worse than others. The buick v8's with the oil pump in the timing covers and the 22r toyotas are known to lose prime.
Did we ever get an official cause of the issue?
Or is it all speculation?
I agree it is possible the filter was an issue... but that's just one of many possibilities.
Or is it all speculation?
I agree it is possible the filter was an issue... but that's just one of many possibilities.
I had an odd problem in a 1994 Camry. Drive it for 15 minutes and oil pressure light would come on.
Installed mechanical gauge, start it up, very low oil pressure. Turn it off and start it back up and everything is fine. It was an Amsoil Ea filter and Amsoil said filter was full but not defective.
Just changed the filter, nothing else and all problems went away.
Hard to say what was going on, but it was obvious the filter was the problem.
Installed mechanical gauge, start it up, very low oil pressure. Turn it off and start it back up and everything is fine. It was an Amsoil Ea filter and Amsoil said filter was full but not defective.
Just changed the filter, nothing else and all problems went away.
Hard to say what was going on, but it was obvious the filter was the problem.
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Thanks Cardenio. This explains why I can go just about anywhere and find the PH 2870A oil filter for my BMWs. I go with whatever Auto Zone calls their house brand Champion, now owned by Fram. I havent had a bad one yet.
Originally Posted By: MrMeeks
I've seen this. Caused by a manufacturing flaw where glue runs onto the adbv and bonds the valve to the base plate.This prevents oil from entering the filter.
But the OP said they just loosened the filter to let it bleed and then re-tightened it and all seemed well then, so if it was a stuck ADBV, I don't see how that would cure the problem.
Filter was never fully removed and replaced ... if so, then it would have been interesting to cut it open for a look.
I've seen this. Caused by a manufacturing flaw where glue runs onto the adbv and bonds the valve to the base plate.This prevents oil from entering the filter.
But the OP said they just loosened the filter to let it bleed and then re-tightened it and all seemed well then, so if it was a stuck ADBV, I don't see how that would cure the problem.
Filter was never fully removed and replaced ... if so, then it would have been interesting to cut it open for a look.
I'd bet money on it that there are multiple pieces of the orange plastic oil dip stick tube collar sitting on the oil pump pick up screen .
I've owned many VWs and this DOES happen.
I've owned many VWs and this DOES happen.
dnewton3
Staff member
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: MrMeeks
I've seen this. Caused by a manufacturing flaw where glue runs onto the adbv and bonds the valve to the base plate.This prevents oil from entering the filter.
But the OP said they just loosened the filter to let it bleed and then re-tightened it and all seemed well then, so if it was a stuck ADBV, I don't see how that would cure the problem.
Filter was never fully removed and replaced ... if so, then it would have been interesting to cut it open for a look.
Yes - this does not make sense as an explanation. That would be a VERY distrubing pathway for glue to work it's way around the ADBV and seal to the base plate, and yet not get to other places. Also, to seal the ADBV closed, that would mean the seal had to resist perhaps 100psid as the pump pushed oil, slammed into a glued ADBV, and then relieved the oil at the pump bypass ... I don't buy it. Especially after "burping" the air out (filter off, then back on) made the problem go away.
These filters have very high bypass settings; Wix is at 16 psid, Fram is at 22 psid, and Purolator is at 25-35 psid! This things expect HIGH pressure to open the internal bypass.
My first suspicion would be the pump lost prime and it's not the filter at fault.
Filters don't prime themselves, but pumps do. If the filter didn't get oil, it's not the filter's fault ... you have to start at the source. Filters don't suck oil into themselves; they receive oil from a pressure source. No oil in the filter? Look upstream!
Originally Posted By: MrMeeks
I've seen this. Caused by a manufacturing flaw where glue runs onto the adbv and bonds the valve to the base plate.This prevents oil from entering the filter.
But the OP said they just loosened the filter to let it bleed and then re-tightened it and all seemed well then, so if it was a stuck ADBV, I don't see how that would cure the problem.
Filter was never fully removed and replaced ... if so, then it would have been interesting to cut it open for a look.
Yes - this does not make sense as an explanation. That would be a VERY distrubing pathway for glue to work it's way around the ADBV and seal to the base plate, and yet not get to other places. Also, to seal the ADBV closed, that would mean the seal had to resist perhaps 100psid as the pump pushed oil, slammed into a glued ADBV, and then relieved the oil at the pump bypass ... I don't buy it. Especially after "burping" the air out (filter off, then back on) made the problem go away.
These filters have very high bypass settings; Wix is at 16 psid, Fram is at 22 psid, and Purolator is at 25-35 psid! This things expect HIGH pressure to open the internal bypass.
My first suspicion would be the pump lost prime and it's not the filter at fault.
Filters don't prime themselves, but pumps do. If the filter didn't get oil, it's not the filter's fault ... you have to start at the source. Filters don't suck oil into themselves; they receive oil from a pressure source. No oil in the filter? Look upstream!
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It is like a situation where a human has chest pain.
Is it a heart attack or a narrowed artery?
Maybe it is...maybe it is not. It is sort of jumping to conclusions to assume it is the oil filter's fault.
Is it a heart attack or a narrowed artery?
Maybe it is...maybe it is not. It is sort of jumping to conclusions to assume it is the oil filter's fault.
Originally Posted By: gregk24
Why didnt the tech watch to see the oil light go out?
We have a saying here: "When the cat is away the rats are at play". I have been trying to let them work without me looking over their shoulder, allow them to work with more autonomy and responsibility. It seems the farther I am away from them, the more corners they cut, the more steps they "forget".
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The oil pump was air locked. A good rule is never let the oil pump see air on both sides. Drain slump, put oil plug in, and refill.... before you change the filter. Some cars, motorcycles, ATVs are just that way.
This is what I suspect happened, it just hasn't ever happened to us. We'll probably start using this procedure. They usually spit quite a bit more oil out of the pan when the filter is unscrewed.
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Does this thing have the 1.8 turbo sludger?
No, not a turbo, but I'm sure it is full of sludge judging by the condition of the rest of the truck.
Thank you for all the responses, interesting discussion!
Why didnt the tech watch to see the oil light go out?
We have a saying here: "When the cat is away the rats are at play". I have been trying to let them work without me looking over their shoulder, allow them to work with more autonomy and responsibility. It seems the farther I am away from them, the more corners they cut, the more steps they "forget".
Quote:
The oil pump was air locked. A good rule is never let the oil pump see air on both sides. Drain slump, put oil plug in, and refill.... before you change the filter. Some cars, motorcycles, ATVs are just that way.
This is what I suspect happened, it just hasn't ever happened to us. We'll probably start using this procedure. They usually spit quite a bit more oil out of the pan when the filter is unscrewed.
Quote:
Does this thing have the 1.8 turbo sludger?
No, not a turbo, but I'm sure it is full of sludge judging by the condition of the rest of the truck.
Thank you for all the responses, interesting discussion!
Originally Posted By: Hirev
The oil pump was air locked. A good rule is never let the oil pump see air on both sides. Drain slump, put oil plug in, and refill.... before you change the filter. Some cars, motorcycles, ATVs are just that way.
Every garage seems to do this:-
1) Lift the vehicle
2) drain the oil
3) swap the filter
4) lower the lift
5) fill the oil
6) start the car
7) check the level
8) put the sticker
Please name a vehicle which needs to be filled with oil before changing the filter.
The oil pump was air locked. A good rule is never let the oil pump see air on both sides. Drain slump, put oil plug in, and refill.... before you change the filter. Some cars, motorcycles, ATVs are just that way.
Every garage seems to do this:-
1) Lift the vehicle
2) drain the oil
3) swap the filter
4) lower the lift
5) fill the oil
6) start the car
7) check the level
8) put the sticker
Please name a vehicle which needs to be filled with oil before changing the filter.
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