Redline 0w20, 14303 Mi., '06 Civic LX 1.8l

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gib

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This is from a buddy of mine who lives in Northern California. He drove roughly a 60/40 mix of highway and city, but he's very heavy on the throttle when accelerating up to cruising speed, routinely hitting 5k+ RPM. Most drives are moderately long (14 miles to work), but there's also some short tripping involved with runs to pick up food or to the bank, etc. He definitely did not take it easy on this run.

Time on oil: ~12 months
OLM: -90% (ran it down to 0%, reset it, then ran it down to 10%)
Oil filter: Bosch Distance Plus (PureOne clone, if I'm not mistaken)
Air Filter: K&N for the first ~9k, then a paper filter for the last ~5k.
Previous Oil Run: Royal Purple 5w20

06civic2.png
 
Boy that oil was spent, NO TBN and I have never seen sodium as an additive in RL so there seems to be a very small leak. But Not too bad for all the miles.
 
Yeah, doesn't look bad for the miles, but dang..ran that all the way down to 0.0 tbn...that's awesome lol. I don't remember any other uoa that had a tbn of 0.0, but I don't read them all either. One question I had was regarding the iron I think that is an aluminum block ad head. Is the iron cam wear and timing component wear?
 
I admire all you people that for 14K miles on a change.

I am just not built that way. -I cry uncle at the 10K mark no matter how I've driven . I look at it like either way I am saving over 3 x the money over the 3/3000 mile myth.
 
Redline is not a long drain oil, Amsoil SSO, M1 EP ... are extended drain oils. The oil of the previous UOA is better with similar mileage (few hundreds miles less)
 
Wow! This is an impressively shot oil! 14K miles, no makeup oil, a TBN of 0.0?!? GASP! This was run way too long. Kinda amazed they wanted a look at 12K miles, I probably would have shorted that.
 
Wow you are not being kind to that engine, I bet that oil is near spent at 10k let alone 15k..
 
Overcooked that poor redline! Visc thickened up quite a bit. Its a 30 grade at this point. Not surprising, given the state of the TBN. I would bet TAN, Oxidation, and Nitration are terrible. Dirt ingress tripled over the same time frame, AND it was changed back to a paper? Might want to make sure the whole intake system is sealed up. Might have a leak somewhere. That dirt certainly isnt helping any.
The Bosch did keep insol in check though, that is the one good point. If this as redline in it again, I would yank it back to 10k or less for this next run and then go from there.
 
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Originally Posted By: Colt45ws
Dirt ingress tripled over the same time frame, AND it was changed back to a paper?

Yeah, this is the big one to me. There's a lot of silicon in this sample and that's probably why the iron wear increased. He did change to a paper filter, but after ~9k miles on the K&N I suspect the "damage" was done. His next UOA will be more telling since it'll have the new filter in place for the entire run. He's already up to about 82k miles, so it won't be that long until the next UOA. He is running Redline 0w20 again, but intends to cut back to ~11k miles.
 
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Redline is not a long drain oil, Amsoil SSO, M1 EP ... are extended drain oils. The oil of the previous UOA is better with similar mileage (few hundreds miles less)


Took the words out of my mouth. ..er hands?
 
I also wanted to add, regarding the 0.0 TBN, I swear I read on this board that Redline oil can be safely run down to lower Blackstone TBNs than "ordinary" oil. For some reason this nugget sticks in my mind and I want to attribute it to Terry Dyson, but it's a vague memory and I'm definitely not 100% sure. If anyone remembers or knows about this, that'd be cool.
 
Ah dont know about that. Blackstone does run a different TBN methodology than some other labs, IIRC. I cant remember the exact difference however.
I would still be hesitant to run it that low. Either way, you are running with painfully little acid fighting capability.
TAN wouldve been most interesting. I believe this oil has actually started to breakdown. It did thicken and that VOA you linked to shows it was about a whole cSt. Less than I thought, but still noticeable.
 
Oh, and even if you take the Silicon in the formulation out(VOA posted shows 12 ppm), you are still ingesting at about a rate of 5 ppm of silicon every 1,000 miles. Definitely check your intake from all angles(including vacuum hoses). Otherwise, any work done on the car that would have had gasket replaced or sealants used recently?

What ever you guys do, please cut it down for 5,000 miles as a 'recovery' run on this fill and re-test.

Then, if your friend wants to do extended drains again, use either Amsoil/M1 EP or even Royal Purple. If you use Red Line, max it at 10,000 in this app.

I don't think this specific engine is doing good on extended drains either way you slice it, for now.

I wonder, how is the PCV valve looking/functioning(ever been replaced???), have you taken pictures of the valve train? Do so during a valve cover removal, please.

As someone else noted, the insols seem to be at bay so the Bosch D+ is doing nicely. These kind of UOAs, even if the TBN was 1-2 range, is a grey area type thing, a known unknown(uncertainty).
21.gif


The oil thickened quite a bit, that 'eventually' leads to problems(like sludge, for example). Wouldn't this app have carbon deposits as a result of running the oil too long or at least a nice coat of varnish...possibly? Even as a result of 1 run, especially considering the higher than normal wear regarding iron?
 
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Ouch, OP's friend is running that poor Civic into the ground. I've never seen iron that high in the new R18 engine that this Civic has. Mine is under 10ppm after 10k on the oil.

Pushed it waaay too far on the first run. Would have been better to sample @ 10k before going further and avoid this poor looking report.
 
Pushed it too far. RL is the greatest extended drain oil out there. Si didn't help any.
 
Others have summed it up well. While race oils do have a lot of AW and FM additives, they usually are not full of anti-oxidation and acid neutralizing additives.
 
Sorry lol I meant NOT the greatest. I consider RL a race oil first, daily driver oil second.
 
Originally Posted By: gib
Originally Posted By: Colt45ws
Dirt ingress tripled over the same time frame, AND it was changed back to a paper?

... There's a lot of silicon in this sample and that's probably why the iron wear increased. He did change to a paper filter, but after ~9k miles on the K&N I suspect the "damage" was done. ...
Changing a filter is prime time for dirt ingestion. No matter how carefull and fastideous you are a fair amout of dirt will be loosened up from around filter gasket and intake tubing and set up to migrate back into the intake. You cant avoid it.
 
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