List of Real Synthetic/Fake Synthetic Oils?

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I remember reading that many of the passenger car oil makers advertising "full synthetic" are actually just filtered dino oil. I seem to remember castrol Syntec is dino, Amsoil synthetic is real synthetic.

Is there a comprehensive list of what oils are real syn?

Also: is there a reliable list showing how much ZDDP is in what oil?
 
All I will say is that there is a whole lot more to it than just "filtered dino", and some of Amsoil's products are also "filtered dino". Now I will just
27.gif
and let the rest of the experts answer your other questions.
 
i love johnny! i respect his opinion to the upmost!! but im very curious as to how honest opinions answers other than johnnys you get
 
Hi,
bountyh - I must ask what is the value of your question?

There is very little difference in the "integrity" of Major Oil Companies products that carry API and ACEA "accreditation"

We have a raft of Eastern European and Asian lubricants in all classes that are either on the market or about to be. These will be (and are) excellent products

The Class 3 lubricants (that I presume you to mean are "fake")that have been formulated in recent years have shown themselves to be excellent performers in their intended applications. Many Approved lubricants fall into this Class!

Perhaps you could have done us all a favour by simply searching this subject!
 
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Here is information on oil processing you might want to read first:


http://www.processengr.com/ppt_presentations/oil_refinery_processes.pdf

There are many many oil discussions on here dealing with views on what is a synthetic base oil and what isn't.

As far as ZDDP, it is not the holy grail of oil additives as there are many others:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=530321#Post530321

Again, a study of the threads and topics will help you clarify your question.
 
Don't bother trying to find out how oils are made. You will quite literally drive yourself insane.

You'll miss out on life too.
 
Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
bountyh - I must ask what is the value of your question?
I guess I believe knowing the truth always has value. I drive a 30 year old cycle and would like to know what's actually in the oil. ZDDP content is critical to me and knowing if the base oil is true synthetic is of interest. True syns typically use less viscosity increasers to make the 10-40 viscosity profile so they will suffer less degradation as the gearbox shears the VI's to death over time.
 
Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,


Perhaps you could have done us all a favour by simply searching this subject!
Sorry, I didn't realize people who come to this forum are expected to do the forum members favors. On other forums, people who have information share it without a lot of attitude.

And, I have researched this on the net.
 
Originally Posted By: bountyh
Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,


Perhaps you could have done us all a favour by simply searching this subject!
Sorry, I didn't realize people who come to this forum are expected to do the forum members favors. On other forums, people who have information share it without a lot of attitude.

And, I have researched this on the net.


Doug was being polite. This topic has been hashed over a million times on this board.
 
Originally Posted By: MolaKule


There are many many oil discussions on here dealing with views on what is a synthetic base oil and what isn't.

Really. Seems obvious to me: synthetic means a man made molecule and mineral oil comes from decaying carbon life forms. But, what do I know.

Originally Posted By: MolaKule


As far as ZDDP, it is not the holy grail of oil additives as there are many others:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=530321#Post530321





If you actually doubt that ZDDP had a positive effect on metal wear due to the bonding of a sacrificial layer which is expended under metal-to-metal contact, I think I will decline further discussion on it. If you run a flat tappet cam engine without it, I will say a prayer for it.

Feel free to close the thread.

I didn't realize I had offended a sacred cow.
 
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Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
bountyh said:
Doug Hillary said:
Doug was being polite. This topic has been hashed over a million times on this board.


Actually, he was being extremely impolite but that's a separate issue.
 
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Originally Posted By: bountyh
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
bountyh said:
Doug Hillary said:
Doug was being polite. This topic has been hashed over a million times on this board.


Actually, he was being extremely impolite but that's a separate issue.


Doug has forgot more about oil than most of us will ever know. I've got a copy of one of his books.

He was being polite.
 
Originally Posted By: bountyh
Originally Posted By: MolaKule


There are many many oil discussions on here dealing with views on what is a synthetic base oil and what isn't.

Really. Seems obvious to me: synthetic means a man made molecule and mineral oil comes from decaying carbon life forms. But, what do I know.

Originally Posted By: MolaKule


As far as ZDDP, it is not the holy grail of oil additives as there are many others:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=530321#Post530321





If you actually doubt that ZDDP had a positive effect on metal wear due to the bonding of a sacrificial layer which is expended under metal-to-metal contact, I think I will decline further discussion on it. If you run a flat tappet cam engine without it, I will say a prayer for it.

Feel free to close the thread.

I didn't realize I had offended a sacred cow.



Shooting down Mola on this topic is akin to taking a Fisher Price tool set in to Jon Kaase's engine shop and telling him you are going to show him how to build engines.
 
bountyh: This topic has been discussed to death. Between every other week to every month someone comes on BITOG and starts a thread like this. Long story short: The advice they are giving you is genuine. It will drive you crazy just trying to figure out what "synthetic" is. The industry has been developing over a century, there are so many processes to use and any number of variations on each of those processes, it's hard to draw the line. "man-made" is not the answer. Almost every motor oil (including synthetic!) is derived from either crude oil, hydrocarbon gas of some type, or some oil-to-gas process in order to assemble "designer molecules." It's better to look at the oils overall performance than its constituent parts. Keep in mind that most times, you can't even find out the process used. The vast majority of motor oil companies don't tell you. Assembling a definitive list of Group II, Group III (Hydro-cracked [Synthetic in the US]), Group IV (PAO), and Group V (Ester) oils will be darn near impossible. Knock yourself out trying.

I'll give you a leg up: Royal Purple uses Group V, AMSOIL uses Group IV (mostly), Schaeffer uses HC and PAO, and Pennzoil seems to only use Group III now, as does Valvoline. Can the average engine tell the difference? Probably not.

As for ZDP/ZDDP the UOA/VOA section has information on zinc for just about every oil out there. But keep in mind that doesn't always reflect the exact content. Newer oils have been reformulated with other anti-wear additives (moly, some of the newer calcium compounds that also increase TBN) and some are rumored to use organic additives, which don't always show up well on a cheap $25 oil analysis.
 
You would be better off reading MSDS specs and UOAs on oils rather than trying to classify them. If the specs are good, the UOAs are good, does it really matter if its a hydrocracked or a group 4?
 
Me thinks if you stated this first you might have gotten a better response. Always try to set down the whys of a question first. Helps people put the answer in a more focused manner I think. But you will miss out life if you try to tackle this subject it seems, Dakota is right.
crazy.gif

Originally Posted By: bountyh
Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
bountyh - I must ask what is the value of your question?
I guess I believe knowing the truth always has value. I drive a 30 year old cycle and would like to know what's actually in the oil. ZDDP content is critical to me and knowing if the base oil is true synthetic is of interest. True syns typically use less viscosity increasers to make the 10-40 viscosity profile so they will suffer less degradation as the gearbox shears the VI's to death over time.
 
Originally Posted By: bountyh
synthetic means a man made molecule and mineral oil comes from decaying carbon life forms. But, what do I know.

Both PAO/Ester (group V/IV) and hydrocracked (group III) oils are man made. Last time I checked, I did not see any group III oils flowing freely from the ground, being strictly a result of decaying carbon life forms.
 
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