List of Real Synthetic/Fake Synthetic Oils?

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Originally Posted By: Johnny
All I will say is that there is a whole lot more to it than just "filtered dino", and some of Amsoil's products are also "filtered dino". Now I will just
27.gif
and let the rest of the experts answer your other questions.

Pablo??
 
Years ago I took some 30Wt. dino and filtered it through a coffee filter and got M1 0-40!! Just kiddin!! Really it's the end product and performance that counts.
 
Originally Posted By: 05ChevyI5
Originally Posted By: Johnny
All I will say is that there is a whole lot more to it than just "filtered dino", and some of Amsoil's products are also "filtered dino". Now I will just
27.gif
and let the rest of the experts answer your other questions.

Pablo??


Some amsoil products did have a group III basestock I am not sure as right now. But it does not matter as far as performance.
 
Originally Posted By: 05ChevyI5
Originally Posted By: Johnny
All I will say is that there is a whole lot more to it than just "filtered dino", and some of Amsoil's products are also "filtered dino". Now I will just
27.gif
and let the rest of the experts answer your other questions.

Pablo??

What do you want from Pablo? He'll be the first one to confirm that Amsoil's XL line (or is it some other line?) is based on group III components.
 
Yes the average car can tell the difference! But not the average driver. Here is my personal experience:

1)My boss has a 2010 GT500 (I know this is not an average car but this is to confirm there is a difference!): There is a problem with the cooling fan (I know, I know piece of junk) so the engine oil overheats quick, and we hear a ticking noise from the back of the engine. Changing the fan unit solves the problem (they already redesigned the fan to a better one), but also does changing the oil to Red Line! Although this is not recommended as Red Line supposedly does not meet the requirements for that car according to Ford (but it does according to Red Line).

2)I work on Jaguars and change the Timing Chain tensioners as preventive maintenance on the old 4.0 engines. Those who used regular pensoil have almost cracked tensioners, not to mension a glazed engine. Let me note, the engine is running fine! no problems, but the couple of customers who used Total or Motul (some like Total some like Motul) had a silver non glazed brand new engine. Tensioners look new!!!! There are also other benefits: Clean Throttle Body and i've seen a bunch of cars that make all kinds of noises, change to synthetic and the problems go away.

3)Group V: Best oils are Motul and Total, Ester based and you should check out the 300V series by Motul which are DOUBLE ESTER BASED! I wonder if this double ester based is a sales gimmick of some sort. I'll do more research and post soon! Check the site on my signature to read more about Motul and Total products!
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: 05ChevyI5
Originally Posted By: Johnny
All I will say is that there is a whole lot more to it than just "filtered dino", and some of Amsoil's products are also "filtered dino". Now I will just
27.gif
and let the rest of the experts answer your other questions.

Pablo??

What do you want from Pablo? He'll be the first one to confirm that Amsoil's XL line (or is it some other line?) is based on group III components.

I agree, but filtered dino?
Maybe I misunderstand the term.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: bountyh
synthetic means a man made molecule and mineral oil comes from decaying carbon life forms. But, what do I know.

Both PAO/Ester (group V/IV) and hydrocracked (group III) oils are man made. Last time I checked, I did not see any group III oils flowing freely from the ground, being strictly a result of decaying carbon life forms.


Very true

although i have some serious doubts that oil comes from decaying life forms

When you see a 500 or so ft cliff you can see all the different ages going back 100s of billions of years, we are now drilling oil at multiple miles down which would make those life forms trillions of years old also consider just how many life forms it would take to create all the oil we have used in the past hundred years, not possible.
 
Originally Posted By: riggaz
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: bountyh
synthetic means a man made molecule and mineral oil comes from decaying carbon life forms. But, what do I know.

Both PAO/Ester (group V/IV) and hydrocracked (group III) oils are man made. Last time I checked, I did not see any group III oils flowing freely from the ground, being strictly a result of decaying carbon life forms.


Very true

although i have some serious doubts that oil comes from decaying life forms

When you see a 500 or so ft cliff you can see all the different ages going back 100s of billions of years, we are now drilling oil at multiple miles down which would make those life forms trillions of years old also consider just how many life forms it would take to create all the oil we have used in the past hundred years, not possible.


Off topic, but:

If you're looking at a cliff and can see lifeforms "100s of billions of years" old, remind me to visit your planet sometime.

Unrelated to that point:

There's something disturbing about the lack of respect some of the newer members oon this board have for older members that have a lot more knowledge than them that seems to be coming out in this thread. Let's not forget the mis-information spreading like a cancer in these 2 short pages so far. Just some gems, "filtered dino", "pensoil (sic) glaze"...
 
These questions should be answered in FAQs. Every time someone posts a thread asking again, they should be PMed a link to said FAQs and the thread should be deleted. Similar policies on other forums work to good effect.
 
Originally Posted By: Johnny
All I will say is that there is a whole lot more to it than just "filtered dino", and some of Amsoil's products are also "filtered dino". Now I will just
27.gif
and let the rest of the experts answer your other questions.


+1 Todays "fake synthetics" are some of the best oils money can buy.
 
Originally Posted By: Dax1987
Yes the average car can tell the difference! But not the average driver. Here is my personal experience:

1)My boss has a 2010 GT500 (I know this is not an average car but this is to confirm there is a difference!): There is a problem with the cooling fan (I know, I know piece of junk) so the engine oil overheats quick, and we hear a ticking noise from the back of the engine. Changing the fan unit solves the problem (they already redesigned the fan to a better one), but also does changing the oil to Red Line! Although this is not recommended as Red Line supposedly does not meet the requirements for that car according to Ford (but it does according to Red Line).

2)I work on Jaguars and change the Timing Chain tensioners as preventive maintenance on the old 4.0 engines. Those who used regular pensoil have almost cracked tensioners, not to mension a glazed engine. Let me note, the engine is running fine! no problems, but the couple of customers who used Total or Motul (some like Total some like Motul) had a silver non glazed brand new engine. Tensioners look new!!!! There are also other benefits: Clean Throttle Body and i've seen a bunch of cars that make all kinds of noises, change to synthetic and the problems go away.

3)Group V: Best oils are Motul and Total, Ester based and you should check out the 300V series by Motul which are DOUBLE ESTER BASED! I wonder if this double ester based is a sales gimmick of some sort. I'll do more research and post soon! Check the site on my signature to read more about Motul and Total products!


What are you trying to add to this topic?
 
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
These questions should be answered in FAQs. Every time someone posts a thread asking again, they should be PMed a link to said FAQs and the thread should be deleted. Similar policies on other forums work to good effect.

I agree and see it put to good use on other boards as well. However, I think posting the link to the faq and then locking the thread will inform others besides the OP.
 
Originally Posted By: riggaz
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: bountyh
synthetic means a man made molecule and mineral oil comes from decaying carbon life forms. But, what do I know.

Both PAO/Ester (group V/IV) and hydrocracked (group III) oils are man made. Last time I checked, I did not see any group III oils flowing freely from the ground, being strictly a result of decaying carbon life forms.


Very true

although i have some serious doubts that oil comes from decaying life forms

When you see a 500 or so ft cliff you can see all the different ages going back 100s of billions of years, we are now drilling oil at multiple miles down which would make those life forms trillions of years old also consider just how many life forms it would take to create all the oil we have used in the past hundred years, not possible.


It used to be that the British definition of a "billion" was one million million (or 10 to the 12th) vs. the American definition of one thousand million (or 10 to the 9th). Similarly, the British definition of "trillion" was a million times a million times a million (or 10 to the 18th)

However, since the understood age of the universe stands at about 14 Billion (14 x 10 to the 9th) years, it's clear that this is hyperbole...

I hope...
 
As far as putting things in a FAQ and ending it there, I don't think it's that easy. Perhaps things that are "facts" can go in a FAQ, but a lot of what's discussed here belongs in the realm of opinion, speculation, and sometimes religion.

If you go back to the heart of the OP's question, he's looking for a list of oils that are truly synthetic. The problem is, in order to answer that question we must have a definition of what "real syn" is. That, is debatable. (After all, we're debating it here!) The bottom line is, like it or not, "Synthetic" is a marketing term. The industry has used it many ways. What one consumer thinks of synthetic may be quite a bit different from what another thinks is synthetic. Then we have actual experts, whom I respect, who step in and try to explain all the nuances with PAO Group IV ester cracked decayed carbon man-made oil....

So, a FAQ might attempt to explain what Group IV oil is... I'm not so sure that a FAQ can tell us what "true syn" is, or on a variety of similar topics. It's opinion.

Then once you have a FAQ on Group-whatever oil, you have to be prepared to change it when the industry changes, or when new information is found, or when vendor-X's formulations change, etc. It's a moving target.
 
Originally Posted By: Dax1987
Yes the average car can tell the difference! But not the average driver. Here is my personal experience:


2)I work on Jaguars and change the Timing Chain tensioners as preventive maintenance on the old 4.0 engines. Those who used regular pensoil have almost cracked tensioners, not to mension a glazed engine. Let me note, the engine is running fine! no problems, but the couple of customers who used Total or Motul (some like Total some like Motul) had a silver non glazed brand new engine. Tensioners look new!!!! There are also other benefits: Clean Throttle Body and i've seen a bunch of cars that make all kinds of noises, change to synthetic and the problems go away.

3)Group V: Best oils are Motul and Total, Ester based and you should check out the 300V series by Motul which are DOUBLE ESTER BASED! I wonder if this double ester based is a sales gimmick of some sort. I'll do more research and post soon! Check the site on my signature to read more about Motul and Total products!


1. It is Pennzoil not pensoil.
2. Regular conventional Pennzoil is probably not the specd oil for a 4.0 Jag, so that would be owner error. But you can straighten them out on that.
3. There is no site listed on your signature.
 
Originally Posted By: dave1251
Originally Posted By: Dax1987
Yes the average car can tell the difference! But not the average driver. Here is my personal experience:

1)My boss has a 2010 GT500 (I know this is not an average car but this is to confirm there is a difference!): There is a problem with the cooling fan (I know, I know piece of junk) so the engine oil overheats quick, and we hear a ticking noise from the back of the engine. Changing the fan unit solves the problem (they already redesigned the fan to a better one), but also does changing the oil to Red Line! Although this is not recommended as Red Line supposedly does not meet the requirements for that car according to Ford (but it does according to Red Line).

2)I work on Jaguars and change the Timing Chain tensioners as preventive maintenance on the old 4.0 engines. Those who used regular pensoil have almost cracked tensioners, not to mension a glazed engine. Let me note, the engine is running fine! no problems, but the couple of customers who used Total or Motul (some like Total some like Motul) had a silver non glazed brand new engine. Tensioners look new!!!! There are also other benefits: Clean Throttle Body and i've seen a bunch of cars that make all kinds of noises, change to synthetic and the problems go away.

3)Group V: Best oils are Motul and Total, Ester based and you should check out the 300V series by Motul which are DOUBLE ESTER BASED! I wonder if this double ester based is a sales gimmick of some sort. I'll do more research and post soon! Check the site on my signature to read more about Motul and Total products!


What are you trying to add to this topic?


A bunch of anecdotal B S??? If you're gonna bash Pennzoil, at least spell it correctly...
 
Originally Posted By: crw
As far as putting things in a FAQ and ending it there, I don't think it's that easy. Perhaps things that are "facts" can go in a FAQ, but a lot of what's discussed here belongs in the realm of opinion, speculation, and sometimes religion.

If you go back to the heart of the OP's question, he's looking for a list of oils that are truly synthetic. The problem is, in order to answer that question we must have a definition of what "real syn" is. That, is debatable. (After all, we're debating it here!) The bottom line is, like it or not, "Synthetic" is a marketing term. The industry has used it many ways. What one consumer thinks of synthetic may be quite a bit different from what another thinks is synthetic. Then we have actual experts, whom I respect, who step in and try to explain all the nuances with PAO Group IV ester cracked decayed carbon man-made oil....

So, a FAQ might attempt to explain what Group IV oil is... I'm not so sure that a FAQ can tell us what "true syn" is, or on a variety of similar topics. It's opinion.

Then once you have a FAQ on Group-whatever oil, you have to be prepared to change it when the industry changes, or when new information is found, or when vendor-X's formulations change, etc. It's a moving target.


All of this is true. Folks can decide for themselves if groups III, IV and V are the kind of synthetics they want. It's like which is true cola, Coke, Pepsi, RC, Sams Choice, etc.

They all have strengths, weaknesses and reasons to choose any of them or others.

I think a FAQ wouldn't answer such a subjective question, just like asking what's the best cola would provide a different answer each time it's asked.

However, such a question could explore the sorts of elements one could examine to answer the question themselves.

For the cola question, it's a bit simpler, tell folks to buy various colas, drink them and decide which they prefer if any.

With motor oils, it's a bit tougher as the stakes are higher and how many can really see the consequences of their choices?

Do they believe that a group III oil will serve their needs as well as other choices? Do they perceive they are worth the costs.

I think many believe the group III oils to be a way for manufacturers to charge the same premium price for a product that is less expensive to produce.

I'm not sure any of us know if that's true or not.

Some might say it doesn't matter, if the oil performs in a superior fashion, then the value is there, regardless how the oil is produced.

Others resent that oil companies make profits and don't want them to make "excess" profits off of them.

It's not for me to say their reasoning is right or wrong. It does point out that it's a complex question and one that doesn't have a fixed answer.

So an FAQ would simply present the facts about each type of oil, and the pros and cons of making such a choice.

I don't expect that it would change someone's mind about what constitutes a "real" synthetic. If they don't want a group III, then a group III isn't going to satisfy them.

I think the real/fake question is a loaded question akin to "do you still beat your wife?" But I also understand that folks do feel strongly about their views. I think an FAQ would help avoid some of the heated discussions around such loaded question topics.

Now where is that Fram Filter thread, LOL?
 
I think a listing of "Classic Threads" would be a good option to list among the forums. I have read some of the years-old threads and found them very helpful in understanding oil terminology and formulation. The trouble is you have to dig through a lot of dirt to find the gold nuggets.
 
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
I think a listing of "Classic Threads" would be a good option to list among the forums. I have read some of the years-old threads and found them very helpful in understanding oil terminology and formulation. The trouble is you have to dig through a lot of dirt to find the gold nuggets.


You and be me, both. Research doesn't mean asking a forum for opinions and that being the basis for your new set of truths. Research is tedious and takes time. Forum advice and opinions can be the beginning of that research, but not the entirety of it.
 
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