Valvoline vs Mobil 1 - Round 2

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I don't think you are being unfair, but I think you are using an old debate trick trying to throw irrelevant information into the mix to distract from the issue at hand.

Until XOM responds, I personally take Ashland's word. Sure they could be wrong but until then I believe Ashland. They sent XOM the data. This is not some contrived story IMO.
 
Originally Posted By: endeavor to persevere
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2115738


That's exciting, a 5w40 vs a 0w40? Why not run it against Delvac 1? Why not run it against TDT 5w40? You know, the SAME GRADE?????

That, and the fact that NO teardown was done, so the UOA information is basically MEANINGLESS.
 
Originally Posted By: endeavor to persevere
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2115738



Wow....this link to the Blackstone reports is impacting.

I have 4 quarts of Mobil 1 left. I will use it up and never go back again. I am sure that Valvoline Synthetic is good stuff, but I will be going with PP.
 
Originally Posted By: endeavor to persevere
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2115738


Absolutely demonstrates that wear decreases with mileage, that Mobil 1 0W-40 is probably not a good match for this engine, and that you can't compare apples and oranges.

The comparable Mobil 1 motor oil would have been Delvac 1 5W-40 and its closely related Mobil 1 siblings.

Here is a typical result of Delvac 1 in a VW:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1316444&fpart=1

Voila!



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Originally Posted By: buster
I don't think you are being unfair, but I think you are using an old debate trick trying to throw irrelevant information into the mix to distract from the issue at hand.


That pretty much defines the entire case of Ashland and the resident ExxonMobil bashers IMHO.






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Originally Posted By: Rolf
Originally Posted By: endeavor to persevere
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2115738


Absolutely demonstrates that wear decreases with mileage, that Mobil 1 0W-40 is probably not a good match for this engine, and that you can't compare apples and oranges.

The comparable Mobil 1 motor oil would have been Delvac 1 5W-40 and its closely related Mobil 1 siblings.

Here is a typical result of Delvac 1 in a VW:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1316444&fpart=1

Voila!



.


Rolf, have you not figured out that this has nothing to do with being fair, factual information or logical approach?

Yes, as I mentioned above, the CORRECT oil to compare Valvoline's 5w40 to would have been Delvac 1 or M1 TDT, but of course it would have got its clock cleaned (in the meaningless UOA's) and so the 0w40 was run.

It would seem that the idea that the test was setup for failure escapes most people.....
 
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Wow another thread of mobil bashing
35.gif


Can the mods lock this one up as well? same [censored] that was goin on in the other Mobil thread
smirk2.gif


I'm right,no, your right,no I'm right, wait,you dont know the facts,please!
 
The Synpower 5w40 is not a diesel rated oil AFAIK. It's their equivalent to Mobil 1 0w-40.

Quote:
SAE 5W-40: Provides the widest range of protection available in the SynPower motor oil line. Delivers outstanding cold temperature pumpability for rapid oil circulation at start-up. Provides a thick oil film for ultimate wear protection. Exceeds all car and light truck manufacturers’ warranty requirements for the protection of gasoline, diesel and turbocharged engines where an API SL, SM or CF oil is recommended. SynPower 5W-40 exceeds European ACEA A3/B3/B4/C3 requirements and is approved for Mercedes-Benz, and Volkswagen. SynPower 5W-40 also meets the engine performance requirements for BMW, Jaguar, Porsche, Lexus, Rolls Royce, Volvo and other high performance vehicles.
 
Originally Posted By: buster
The Synpower 5w40 is not a diesel rated oil AFAIK. It's their equivalent to Mobil 1 0w-40.

Quote:
SAE 5W-40: Provides the widest range of protection available in the SynPower motor oil line. Delivers outstanding cold temperature pumpability for rapid oil circulation at start-up. Provides a thick oil film for ultimate wear protection. Exceeds all car and light truck manufacturers’ warranty requirements for the protection of gasoline, diesel and turbocharged engines where an API SL, SM or CF oil is recommended. SynPower 5W-40 exceeds European ACEA A3/B3/B4/C3 requirements and is approved for Mercedes-Benz, and Volkswagen. SynPower 5W-40 also meets the engine performance requirements for BMW, Jaguar, Porsche, Lexus, Rolls Royce, Volvo and other high performance vehicles.


It is not the same grade though. And it does, in that quote, and from Valvoline's site (where that quote comes from), say it is rated for use in diesels. What's its HTHS viscosity? It's a 5w40, diesel or not (I see it is not CI or CJ rated), it should really be compared to a 5w40, not a 0w40.

And the information presented is useless regardless. It's UOA's, not tear-down testing.
 
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I disagree. A 0w or 5w doesn't matter. Amsoil's 5w40 is their European oil much like Mobil 1 has their 0w-40. Delvac 5w40 is a diesel oil first, PCMO second.
 
Originally Posted By: buster
I disagree. A 0w or 5w doesn't matter. Amsoil's 5w40 is their European oil much like Mobil 1 has their 0w-40. Delvac 5w40 is a diesel oil first, PCMO second.


AMSOIL has much more freedom with their product than Ashland or ExxonMobil there, not a great comparison....

I would like to see a comparison of the HTHS viscosities and other properties, as well as actual tear-down testing performed before I would say we have learned ANYTHING from that comparison other than there are sites other than this one with a Mobil-bashing fetish.
 
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Originally Posted By: Rolf
Originally Posted By: buster
The Synpower 5w40 is not a diesel rated oil AFAIK. It's their equivalent to Mobil 1 0w-40.


Are you saying the comparison is unfair because the Delvac 1 5W-40 is a better oil?

I ask because around my area they're about the same price.

http://www.valvoline.com/products/Synpower.pdf

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/NAXXENCVLMOMobil_Delvac_1_5W-40.asp

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_1_0W-40.asp



.





I think he just means it should be compared to Valvoline's "Premium Blue" Extreme, which I don't think I've ever seen anybody on here run? That would be their "equivalent" to Delvac 1, whilst they do not make a 0w40, so their Synpower 5w40 is the closest thing.
 
Originally Posted By: Rolf
Originally Posted By: buster
The Synpower 5w40 is not a diesel rated oil AFAIK. It's their equivalent to Mobil 1 0w-40.


Are you saying the comparison is unfair because the Delvac 1 5W-40 is a better oil?

I ask because around my area they're about the same price.

http://www.valvoline.com/products/Synpower.pdf

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/NAXXENCVLMOMobil_Delvac_1_5W-40.asp

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_1_0W-40.asp



Again, you are switching the subject.

Synpower 5w-40 is a 40 grade oil that meets european specifications.

Mobil 1 0w-40 is a 40 grade oil that meets european specifications.

If you had a Mercedes, this is the Synpower oil that Ashland would recommend to replace M1 0w40.

I do not know what is the better oil between the two and neither do you.
 
Originally Posted By: buster
Again, you are switching the subject.


Comparing two 5W-40 motor oils at the same viscosity and price is "switching the subject"?

What, then, was the subject?

The individual who did this "analysis" seemed to say the point was Valvoline was better than Mobil.

Originally Posted By: buster
Synpower 5w-40 is a 40 grade oil that meets european specifications.


Take a look at the urls. There are two Synpower 5W-40s, each of which meets some European specifications.

Both Mobil 1 0W-40 and Delvac 1 5W-40 meet some European specifications.

So, we learn once again that:

- you can cherry pick formulas to "prove" the superiority of one brand

- there is no substitute for used oil analyses properly interpreted

What this gentleman did NOT prove was that Valvoline is superior to Mobil.


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UOAs, I think are pretty much a waste of time and money,unless you suspect antifreeze in the oil,etc. for the average person. Typically you can change your oil for what it cost to do a UOA.One millioneth of apart is extreamly minute. So if it's 9 or 29 ppm so what! It doesn't mean anything in regards to the longivety of the engine.
 
October 8, 1997

VALVOLINE SETTLES CHARGES

Engine Wear, Fuel Economy, Performance Claims For Valvoline TM8 Engine Treatment Were Unsubstantiated


I wonder if this has anything to do with them dropping VSOT, (granted it was a different product), which many of us liked...........
 
Quote:
there is no substitute for used oil analyses properly interpreted

What this gentleman did NOT prove was that Valvoline is superior to Mobil.


I think oil analysis is useful but limited.

Correct, he did not prove Valvoline was superior. Nor do you know Mobil is any better.

We do know wear metals dropped and we don't know what version of the 5w40 was run. You could certainly compare D1.

RI's interpretation:

Quote:
1st off, this is not an experiment, it is an ongoing analysis of oil in a vehicle engine. The data is real, not contrived. A change definitely occurred when M1 was switched out and replaced with Valvoline. Arguing about "statistical significance" is a smoke screen. A change occurred in metal wear. That change in metal wear is well outside the error range of ICP spectroscopy used by Blackstone. Thus, something caused that change in wear. Now, we can argue whether it was the oil, or some other condition in the engine, but quite frankly, there are not that many variables that will cause this large an increase in wear.

Having done these sorts of experiments across many miles in my Audi's and having accumulated nearly 100 samples across 20+ Audi RS4 engines, I'd say that his results are what should be expected. It is a testament to good marketing that consumers become angry when the preeminence of Mobil 1 0W40 is challenged. But it does not change the fact that Mobil 1 sometimes does not perform as well as other oils in some engine applications.

Believe it or not, there really are not that many variables to consider that change the results in an oil analysis. Oil itself being the most important variable. Used Oil analysis gives a snapshot of an engine over the average period of the oil change, or analysis, interval. For what is measured, it is highly accurate.

I'd agree that it would be helpful to reintroduce M1 into the engine again. When/if he does, I fully expect to see fuel dilution go up, and Iron wear specifically increase. Why? Because M1 0w40 does not seal the rings well after it has been run in the engine a few thousand miles. And when confronted with fuel, some of it's anti wear additives are washed off of iron bearing surfaces in the engine, resulting in higher wear.
 
Regardless of what you believe, I'm curious if they refute it publicly or let this issue die on it's own....
 
Quote:
The letter reportedly goes on to say that Valvoline notified ExxonMobil of the failed test results in September and that the company take appropriate action regarding their claim that Mobil 1 meets ILSAC GF-4 and API SM specifications, or provide substantiation that they in fact meet these specifications.

As of today, Valvoline told JobbersWorld, ExxonMobil has been silent.


Hopefully XOM will respond in time.
 
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