Nissan Transmission Shudder!!!

[Cooper]

Okay, I have talked about this before. I am no expert on transmissions. But, I understand the concepts on how they work. Anyway, My auto 2.5 Altima has a transmission shudder at 1500-2000 rpms when in drive whether increasing or decreasing speed. The trannie is not shifting at this time. It shifts just fine and doesn't slip. I have reset the computer by leaving the battery disconnected to no avail. I have read before something about this but can't find it now.

So, any suggestions as to what is happening here. What can I do to improve the shudder. It has 50% Amsoil ATF in it now. It was flushed about 12k mile ago with Pennzoil Universal ATF. The fluid that comes out looks like the fluid going in, new.

 

[Whitewolf]

What fluid does the OEM recommend for your application?

 

[Cooper]

It recommends Nissan Matic D or Dex3/Merc if Nissan Matic D is not available. Nissan Matic D is basically repackaged Dex/Merc fluid. So, either one of the fluids that I have used should work flawlessly.

 

[Pablo]

I know 100% Amsoil ATF will do fine in NISSAN AT's, but I have no idea about 50-50 mix with Pennz U ATF.

Not sure it's a fluid issue, as your words confuse me:

Quote:
The trannie is not shifting at this time. It shifts just fine and doesn't slip.

 

[Steve S]

Torque converter clutch? I am not familiar with nissan transmissions. Is there a trusted trans shop in your area? If so it may be worth the time or $$$ for an opinion from someone familiar with the trans.

 

[Whitewolf]

OK, basically you have no idea what fluid concoction is in your transmission. You should have stuck to what was recommended. I'm sorry to appear harsh but I am continually questioned by people who have problems, only to find that in their infinite wisdom they have decided to use some untested, unqualified, unknown, undeclared material.
The message is DON'T DO IT.
Since you have taken that route and encountered problems you might want to consider putting in the recommended product and hope that you have not done too much irriversable damage.
You could of course opt to try one of the other 'Universal' products and see what happens, maybe good, maybe bad.
Sorry to be so pessimistic but I get these tales all day long and no one seems to learn.

 

[bmwtechguy]

Wow, I guess you screwed up dude. Better get some OEM Quality fluid in that thing quick, fast, and in a hurry and quit screwin' around with that aftermarket JUNK.

Sorry for the sarcasm, but some people here just have one song to sing. Seriously, I doubt that the fluid you put in is causing a shudder. Did the shudder start when you "flushed" the transmission with the Pennzoil Universal ATF, or did you have this problem before? At what point did the shudder start happenning, and how do you know it has anything to do with the transmission? A torque converter shudder would usually happen when you get into high gear and the throttle levels off some and the TC clutch is activated, usually around 45-50 mph, or when you get off the throttle and back on it, say on the interstate.

Let's identify the problem, first, at least, then we can maybe see what may have caused it and how to fix it. How many miles on this (OEM?) trans? What year Altima?

I'm offering some real help, instead of use OEM, use OEM... WHAT? You chose to use something else? Oh and now you're having a possibly unrelated problem? Well, now see there, I told you so now, didn't I? Shame on you and all the others out there who dare to use TESTED, QUALIFIED, KNOWN, and DECLARED products. Seriously, give it a rest already!

 

[asiancivicmaniac]

My dad's 00 Quest has always had a shudder when it shifts. Even after a transmission flush it does that. I think unDummy once said that it's a characteristic of Nissan transmissions.

 

[VK56VD]

Any Dex III fluid will work fine with a Nissan Matic-D recommendation. It even says so in the owners manual. Try a different brand of Dex III compatible fluid and see if that helps. If you want something off the counter, try Mobil 1 ATF, Valvoline MaxLife ATF, or buy some OEM Nissan Matic-D fluid from the dealer and see if that helps. BTW, J-Matic fluid is also compatible with D-Matic and is a synthetic OEM blend. It is more expensive than the D-Matic. Good luck and let us know how it all pans out.

 

[CharBaby]

Cooper,
What year is your Altima and is it still under the factory warranty? I have an '04 2.5 S and it still has about 1 year of the 5/50000 remaining on the drivetrain only.

 

[Cooper]

Sorry, it should have read a little more like this...

The trannie is not shifting when I feel the shudder. But, when it shifts, is is nice, and no slippage.
Originally Posted By: Pablo
I know 100% Amsoil ATF will do fine in NISSAN AT's, but I have no idea about 50-50 mix with Pennz U ATF.

Not sure it's a fluid issue, as your words confuse me:

Quote:
The trannie is not shifting at this time. It shifts just fine and doesn't slip.

 

[Cooper]

First off, whitewolf, I do not agree with anything you have to say.

Thanks for everyone elses responces.

No the car is not under warranty. It is a 2002 2.5 S. It has 92k on it. The fluids have always been maintained with Nissan Matic D from the previous owner at the stealership. I have always felt this shudder. Before and after all ATF fluid changes, it just bugs me. Sometimes it does it, sometimes it doesn't. It always happens at about 1500-2000 rpm range. I would narrow it down to probably about 40-50 mph downshifting or slowing down. It feels like a minor vibration only then. It doesn't do it at lower speeds, and only when driving. Hope this better explains what is going on.

Again, thanks everyone except whitewolf for your help.

 

[Cooper]

I know excactly what is in my transmission. 5 quarts Pennzoil, 5 quarts Amsoil. I am in the process of switching to only Amsoil. About 4 drain and refills over 10k. I just started this process. Do you overdramatise everything?
Originally Posted By: Whitewolf
OK, basically you have no idea what fluid concoction is in your transmission. You should have stuck to what was recommended. I'm sorry to appear harsh but I am continually questioned by people who have problems, only to find that in their infinite wisdom they have decided to use some untested, unqualified, unknown, undeclared material.
The message is DON'T DO IT.
Since you have taken that route and encountered problems you might want to consider putting in the recommended product and hope that you have not done too much irriversable damage.
You could of course opt to try one of the other 'Universal' products and see what happens, maybe good, maybe bad.
Sorry to be so pessimistic but I get these tales all day long and no one seems to learn.

 

[Whitewolf]

First of all I am not asking for you to agree, or disagree for that matter, I'm just giving you my opinion. Presumably opinions are what you were seeking otherwise you would not have raised the question in the first place.
Secondly it is possible for a simple fluid change to cause shudder. I could show you situations where shudder can be turned on by a change to one fluid and off again by changing back. The bigger problem is that if the shudder is there long enough and is severe enough the surface of the friction material becomes damaged to a point that no fluid can fix it. I'm not saying that you are there but you need to understand that such a possibilty exists.

 

[MaximaGuy]

First off when it comes to Nissan trannies I have realized that they are very brutal on fluid in general and more so with weak speced fluids like regular Dexron/mercon. When I used to flush using regular Dexron/Mercon fluids the shudder comes back prompty within 10K miles.

I recently switched to Castrol MV Import ATF and I am quite impressed how it has held up. Earlier I had Mercon V and it help up very well too.

I not a fan of OEM fluids, but this import ATF is the closest one can get to OEM fluids and I think it is worth investigating the OEM flush route once more. If you are bent on going the Amsoil way "Do a Flush and not the drain/fill exercise" and if there is any shudder drop in Lubegard Black to get the friction modifiers beefed up..

BTW shudder could be happening even if the throttle body is dirty, the coils are on their way out, fouled plugs, knocking, poor heat transfer vis-a-vis cooking ATF via the radiator cooler etc... So to pinpoint wierd tranny behaviour one needs to remove the others as suspects.

Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[Cyprs]

I have slight issue with my 05 X-trail Nissan auto tranny, tranny will not engage into overdrive immediately when cold out, it then takes up to 7-8 minutes driving to engage OD when quite cold out, even on hot day with gentle warm up highway drive it takes about 3 minutes highway driving to warm up tranny enough to engage OD. Even in lower gears I can fing some delay in all gears auto shifting when really cold out. Revs extremely low at 65 mph in third gear anyway, high geared, not worried about it, once OD engages she runs sweet and low rpm at 80 mph. My 92 Dodge Cummins is far far worse for OD engagement cold.

Cooper, I dont claim to have found your problem, just wondering, does your tranny shudder only when cold or in first 10 minutes? Does this shuddder problem go away warmed up? If it is always there even warm then I am off track. My auto tranny might shudder when cold too, I never push it hard enough cold to find out, I have learned to be extremely patient with this Nissan tranny.

My older son's Escort always engaged OD immediately, even at -25F, my younger son's current 94 Olds engages OD immediately too, I find my 05 Nissan trannies wont so I dont force it, I wait for tranny to warm up with some patience. I prefer standard trannies, always had them in my Nissan, got this current auto tranny for my wife.

The other thing I dont like is the clutched delay of gear engagement with the tranny linkage in Nissan auto trannies. I have to always wait about 1.5 to 2 seconds after gear selection for the gear to automaticly clutch gently into engagement to prevent jamming that auto clutching (slack) hard with torquing with throttle on drive off. My 92 cummins has immediate engagement on gear selection shift at idle but it jumps quite violently into gear on engagement, not clutched gently like a Nissan tranny.

I also use a 25 year fully proven field tested industrial fleet, heavy equip etc metal treatment in all trannies, engines, difs, pumps etc, really smooths tranny out too.

Good Luck,

Cyprs

 

[HondaMan]

Why the delay in getting to 100% Amsoil, or at least 80%... why stuck at 50%?

You mentioned it having OE fluid from the start... when/who put in the Penzzzzz? Was the Penz at 100% and can you be sure of this fact?

I am meeting too many people who work for a living at servicing autos who have proven results with Amsoil ATF.

I feel it is too costly a fluid to be mired in a 50/50 mix ... It will be interesting to see what happens when you get to 100% Amsoil or at least better than 50%.

I would not bet one way or the other, but I agree with Pablo in that pure Amsoil ATF SHOULD work very, very well.

 

[bmwtechguy]

I think that the Ams ATF is already very friction modified, so if and when you get it at or close to 100% Ams ATF, you should not have shudder. If your shudder continues at that point you may need to look at ignition, etc. like Maxima Guy says.

I would have to second the recommendation to NOT do partial drain and refills with a high dollar fluid. You throw away so much good fluid to get your percentage up when you could just pop a cooler hose off and pump out the capacity of the unit, about 3-4 quarts at a time. Measure the total amount of fluid pumped out, and when you get the approximate total capacity of the unit pumped out, stop and hook the cooler line back up, then refill to proper level. Either way, I guess you throw away some portion of expensive fluid, but I like to get it done.

Companies like Amsoil, Schaeffers, and Redline did not get and keep so many returning customers without making a "better mousetrap", so to speak. Is their stuff the best in every app? Surely not, but in my experience nearly so, and worth every penny IMO. Mobil 1 ATF darn good stuff, too.

Also lots of very good retail fluids out there to choose from nowadays, way more than 10 years ago. Pennz multi-vehicle is probably just good ole DexIII/Mercon type fluid and not very friction modified for any trans that tends to have shudder problems. Merc V, ATF+4, and the import multi-vehicle fluids much better in the shudder control dept. Maxlife ATF would be another good fluid that covers a wide range of use and works well in most apps.

 

[Cooper]

I have not been able to do another drain and refill because of the weather. I did a drain and refill with the intention of doing the drain, and refilling it, then disconnecting cooler line. But, we got a rain storm during this process so, I just finished the drain and refill. It has been about 0 degrees F and a lot of snow here. I will finish the process when the weather gets good for a few days, and some of the snow melts off.

 

[Cooper]

I was thinking about buying some Maxlife ATF for the future, I am trying to save a little money and Amsoil doesn't help in that department. How does Maxlife work compared to the Amsoil in replacement for Matic D? Got two kids now under two, and trying to buy a new house to fit us all.

Thanks for everyones help.