zmax = engine damage?

[Trajan]

Most people fall for the hype. As for the FTC, it isn't a question of "spending taxpayer's money." The case was settled, without any admission of liability. Zmax still paid.

Money, despite the popular opinion, doesn't always talk. If that was true, big companies, and moreso government, would never lose a court case.

BTW, I have never used Zmax. I thought about it once, then did some searching here.

 

[demarpaint]

This says it all. Now a few years later this thread comes back from the dead, and back to the top from a new member. Seems to me like sales are off, and what better place for some free advertisement. JMO


Originally Posted By: Trajan
The case was settled, without any admission of liability. Zmax still paid.

 

[Spyder7]

He has certainly come to the forum armed with a pretty extensive knowledge of this product. All I knew before he widened my knowledge on the product, was it was some of the nicest packaged snake oil I'd seen.

I'm still going to take a pass on it though.

-Spyder

 

[finalyzd]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
This says it all. Now a few years later this thread comes back from the dead, and back to the top from a new member. Seems to me like sales are off, and what better place for some free advertisement. JMO


Originally Posted By: Trajan
The case was settled, without any admission of liability. Zmax still paid.




How much did they pay?

 

[tenderloin]

Originally Posted By: finalyzd
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
This says it all. Now a few years later this thread comes back from the dead, and back to the top from a new member. Seems to me like sales are off, and what better place for some free advertisement. JMO


Originally Posted By: Trajan
The case was settled, without any admission of liability. Zmax still paid.




How much did they pay?


This confirmation is specified in an exchange of letters with the Division of Enforcement of the FTC. Oil-Chem’s letter lists the tests and other documents that substantiate the zMAX claims (provided by Oil-Chem to the FTC during the litigation), and the FTC responded that no compliance action would be merited as a result of Oil-Chem making such claims.

Oil-Chem and SMI have not admitted any liability in this litigation. However, in order to avoid the significant expense and time involved in the litigation, the FTC, Oil-Chem and SMI have agreed to end the litigation by the signing of an order, which, in summary, states: (a) Oil-Chem and SMI do not admit any liability and continue to deny any liability; (b) The FTC has issued its compliance letter (which confirms that enforcement is not merited for the eight specified claims); (c) Oil-Chem and SMI will not make advertising claims which are not properly substantiated; and (d) Oil-Chem and SMI will offer a refund of up to $1 million, in the aggregate, to certain purchasers of zMAX, who bought zMAX before January 31, 2001. No refund will be offered to purchasers after that date. For more information visit [non-sponsor link]

[non-sponsor link]

 

[demarpaint]

Why did they have to pay out a $1,000,000 if the product was all it claims to be?

 

[racetek27]

Originally Posted By: Trajan
Most people fall for the hype. As for the FTC, it isn't a question of "spending taxpayer's money." The case was settled, without any admission of liability. Zmax still paid.

Money, despite the popular opinion, doesn't always talk. If that was true, big companies, and moreso government, would never lose a court case.

BTW, I have never used Zmax. I thought about it once, then did some searching here.



zMax worked 2 1/2 to conduct extensive testing to satisfy the FTC and prove it's value thru the results on it's testing.

Testing a product using ASTM/SAE protocols,is the most accurate and correct way to evaluate a products value.

There is no better way to determine if it works or not.

 

[racetek27]

Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Originally Posted By: Johnny

Quote:
I've asked for an MSDS twice and never heard back from them.


Here:

[non-sponsor link]


So it's over 99% white paraffin oil. Sounds like 100% snake oil.


zMax is a pure petroleum product modified at the molecular level.

It's not an oil additive ( see SAE J357 )and is a Micro-Lubricant that's recognized by the Tribology Society.

If you go to their web site [non-sponsor link] and click on TECHNICAL,at the bottom of the page,you can read zMax Micro-lubricant, the Fact's which is their ASTM/SAE test info.

You'll see that the zMax was tested before and after it's reformation which showed a change in it's molecule.

If you go to METAL PENETRATION on the report,that's where zMax proved it's ability to soak 82% deeper into the metal sub-surface than Motor Oil alone.

The AUGER ELECTRON SPECTROSCOPY TEST uses a Laser beam to very accurately peel the metal away and check the depth that the oil has reached.

zMax uses Micro-Lubrication and soaks into the metal, weeping out and cooling the excess frictional heat that develops on the tips of the jagged machined tooling imperfections.

By cooling and providing increased surface lubrication, zMax helps the Motor Oil and Fuel do the job they were designed for.

Our minds are branded with the concept of slippery,slick and some extra EP additive needs to be " Painted " on the metal surfaces. Adding additional Additives to the formulated motor Oil can change their formulation. zMax is Oil friendly and does not change their formulation.

 

[racetek27]

Originally Posted By: Spyder7
He has certainly come to the forum armed with a pretty extensive knowledge of this product. All I knew before he widened my knowledge on the product, was it was some of the nicest packaged snake oil I'd seen.

I'm still going to take a pass on it though.

-Spyder


Spyder7

Follow through on visiting the [non-sponsor link] site to evaluate the product history.

Visit [non-sponsor link] and evaluate the several million dollars of independent ASTM/SAE testing that was performed.

I can promise you you won't find another product with the amount of ASTM/SAE testing to support it's value that zMax has.

On one last note, I see you reside in Canada. Your aviation division is very stringent and astute on air safety. I know this from my father Ed Sr working with some engineering firms in Canada as an engine expert witness on air crashes.

Did you know that zMax, under the AvBlend brand name is approved by your Canadian Government for use in aircraft piston engines as well.

There is no other " automotive category additive product " that can reprsent that.

Thanks

 

[racetek27]

Originally Posted By: tenderloin
Originally Posted By: finalyzd
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
This says it all. Now a few years later this thread comes back from the dead, and back to the top from a new member. Seems to me like sales are off, and what better place for some free advertisement. JMO


Originally Posted By: Trajan
The case was settled, without any admission of liability. Zmax still paid.






How much did they pay?


This confirmation is specified in an exchange of letters with the Division of Enforcement of the FTC. Oil-Chem’s letter lists the tests and other documents that substantiate the zMAX claims (provided by Oil-Chem to the FTC during the litigation), and the FTC responded that no compliance action would be merited as a result of Oil-Chem making such claims.

Oil-Chem and SMI have not admitted any liability in this litigation. However, in order to avoid the significant expense and time involved in the litigation, the FTC, Oil-Chem and SMI have agreed to end the litigation by the signing of an order, which, in summary, states: (a) Oil-Chem and SMI do not admit any liability and continue to deny any liability; (b) The FTC has issued its compliance letter (which confirms that enforcement is not merited for the eight specified claims); (c) Oil-Chem and SMI will not make advertising claims which are not properly substantiated; and (d) Oil-Chem and SMI will offer a refund of up to $1 million, in the aggregate, to certain purchasers of zMAX, who bought zMAX before January 31, 2001. No refund will be offered to purchasers after that date. For more information visit [non-sponsor link]

[non-sponsor link]


Not at all Tenderloin.......

You won't see me discussing where to buy it,etc. This forum has knowledgeable members that will understand what zMax is with some guidance and informative technical discusson which is the objective here.

My background with using the product as an engine builder/technician many years before working as a Technical Officer and Director of Manufacturing for the product will allow me to help educate everyone about what zMax is.

The Forum's objective for it's members is to receive the very best information about items which can help their vehicles.

I will fully deliver that information and support it with the necessary test data,etc so they can be provided with the complete facts. From that point,they can properly evaluate the product.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: racetek27


My background with using the product as an engine builder/technician many years before working as a Technical Officer and Director of Manufacturing for the product will allow me to help educate everyone about what zMax is.

The Forum's objective for it's members is to receive the very best information about items which can help their vehicles.

I will fully deliver that information and support it with the necessary test data,etc so they can be provided with the complete facts. From that point,they can properly evaluate the product.


Maybe you can post this data for the industry experts to view and then perhaps express their expert opinions.
To many of us it seems like you have a financial interest in the product.

 

[Vikas]

I better hope so given he is the "Technical Officer and Director of Manufacturing for the product" !

 

[racetek27]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: racetek27


My background with using the product as an engine builder/technician many years before working as a Technical Officer and Director of Manufacturing for the product will allow me to help educate everyone about what zMax is.

The Forum's objective for it's members is to receive the very best information about items which can help their vehicles.

I will fully deliver that information and support it with the necessary test data,etc so they can be provided with the complete facts. From that point,they can properly evaluate the product.


Maybe you can post this data for the industry experts to view and then perhaps express their expert opinions.
To many of us it seems like you have a financial interest in the product.

I can assure you that my interest is to help educate people on the technical side of the product. I provide information in an open manner and will have the hard data to support it.

Unfortunately,forums are used to make damaging remarks against products from hidden competition ( includes industry experts from competitors products ) moles. Their comments make them easy to recognize.

As you can see on my post about Cadillac, the response made by one of the forum members totally circumvents the fact that GM recognized a value in zMax helping their engines.

Any information about zMax including testing can be found on the [non-sponsor link] web site or [non-sponsor link] .

Members will have to review the information and get an opinion if needed from someone they respect with technical knowledge.

The zMax test data was prepared by numerous independent and respected industry experts in their respective fields. Their findings are unbiased and can be trusted from a legal standpoint as well.

Most importantly, these experts work in independent test facilities serving the industry as an outside source to evaluate a product..

My point is, you already have industry expert opinions there.

 

[racetek27]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
I better hope so given he is the "Technical Officer and Director of Manufacturing for the product" !


Vikas,

Most important, I have extensive use of the product as an engine builder/tech in both automotive/racing and aviation many years before ever working with Oil Chem.

I'm open to discuss using it in high performance vehicles,engine build-up or any other question the members may have.

Thanks

Ed

 

[demarpaint]

Who is the expert? I was thinking of some of the long time respected members here, Bruce, Mola, Doug H and a few others. No disrespect I have no clue who you are, or who the people you are referring to are. So far this sounds like a classic sales pitch to me.

Judging from some of the comments in this thread, prior Z-Max threads, and the $1,000,000 settlement people have lots of doubts here. This is a tough group. Yet if data, and real world testimony from respected members give it a green light it might have some merit. So far we haven't seen any of that yet.

 

[Spyder7]

I'm glad to see you are indicating your affiliation with the company; this was speculated upon, but its much nicer and promotes a better quality discussion, IMHO, when this type of disclosure is made.

I have often seen your product, in its high tech looking packaging, at my local WMs. The way you describe the product makes it sound similar in some ways to both Lubro Moly mos2 and Bio Tech Engine Wear Protective; without revealing any proprietary information, of course, I would like to know how your product compares to these and anything that makes it different, or from your point of view, better.

-Spyder

 

[racetek27]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Why did they have to pay out a $1,000,000 if the product was all it claims to be?


Oil Chem's goal was to conduct the necessary ASTM/SAE testing to prove their performance claims, which they did.

The 1 million payout to users, pre Janurary 2001 was something the FTC requested.

What people are not aware of is the same people that were offered money out of the requested funds at the conclusion of the case were also offered a full 30 day money back guarantee back when they originally purchased the product ??????

From what I remember, you could basically count the number of money back guarantee requests on one hand .

 

[Spyder7]

Originally Posted By: racetek27
Originally Posted By: Spyder7
He has certainly come to the forum armed with a pretty extensive knowledge of this product. All I knew before he widened my knowledge on the product, was it was some of the nicest packaged snake oil I'd seen.

I'm still going to take a pass on it though.

-Spyder


On one last note, I see you reside in Canada. Your aviation division is very stringent and astute on air safety. I know this from my father Ed Sr working with some engineering firms in Canada as an engine expert witness on air crashes.

Did you know that zMax, under the AvBlend brand name is approved by your Canadian Government for use in aircraft piston engines as well.

There is no other " automotive category additive product " that can reprsent that.

Thanks


I did not know that, although I do have an Uncle who is an Aviation Inspector with Transport Canada who I can discuss that with.

-Spyder

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: racetek27
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Why did they have to pay out a $1,000,000 if the product was all it claims to be?


Oil Chem's goal was to conduct the necessary ASTM/SAE testing to prove their performance claims, which they did.

The 1 million payout to users, pre Janurary 2001 was something the FTC requested.

What people are not aware of is the same people that were offered money out of the requested funds at the conclusion of the case were also offered a full 30 day money back guarantee back when they originally purchased the product ??????

From what I remember, you could basically count the number of money back guarantee requests on one hand .


The FTC requested it for good reason I'm sure. As far as money back guarantees it is something companies offer and payout very little on, it's a sales tool. Some companies offer them and then give the customer a hard way to go when it comes time to make good.

If the members I listed above chime in and think this is a product with merit, I'll look into it more. For now I have my doubts. I've tried several products mentioned here on Bitog, and have a short list of what I call good additives. I got burnt once for doing my homework too fast, and second guessing myself. My first impressions are usually spot on.

 

[racetek27]

Originally Posted By: Spyder7
Originally Posted By: racetek27
Originally Posted By: Spyder7
He has certainly come to the forum armed with a pretty extensive knowledge of this product. All I knew before he widened my knowledge on the product, was it was some of the nicest packaged snake oil I'd seen.

I'm still going to take a pass on it though.

-Spyder


On one last note, I see you reside in Canada. Your aviation division is very stringent and astute on air safety. I know this from my father Ed Sr working with some engineering firms in Canada as an engine expert witness on air crashes.

Did you know that zMax, under the AvBlend brand name is approved by your Canadian Government for use in aircraft piston engines as well.

There is no other " automotive category additive product " that can represnt that.

Thanks


I did not know that, although I do have an Uncle who is an Aviation Inspector with Transport Canada who I can discuss that with.

Ask your Uncle if he know's a man named David Rupert.He owns a well respected Metallurgical Lab in Canada and I know my father used him on air crashes to study metal fatigue.

Also, I'm sure your Uncle has heard of **** Rutan and Sean D Tucker in aviation. Tucker is world renowned as the best aerobatic pilot in aviation.

Visit [non-sponsor link] and read his story regarding the use of our product.You may not believe it, but each and every one of our professional endorsers have used the product for many years. Otherwise we're not interested in them putting their name behind it !

I'll prepare something to help you understand zMax as compared to Motor Oil and any aftermarket additive.

Thanks

Ed Rachanski Jr

-Spyder