zinc and phosphorus levels present in oil

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ron in sc

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Not a which oil is better or best for my car thread. I'll decide that. So please no comments about best oil.

I have interest in zinc and phosphorus levels present in oil currently in use for air/oil cooled high performance cars.

Is there a minimal level for zinc and phosphorus which I should stay above?
Is there a maximum level of zinc and/or phosphorus which I should stay below to avoid other issues, like CAT problems?

Please don't tell me there is more to oil than zinc and phosphorus, I know that.
 
What is the sump capacity on the vehicle you are thinking about? I would buy a high quality oil rated for the engine and not be overly concerned about zinc and/or phosphorus.

If money was no object, I would just buy the Amsoil oil that their website recommends.
 
Originally Posted By: Donald
What is the sump capacity on the vehicle you are thinking about? I would buy a high quality oil rated for the engine and not be overly concerned about zinc and/or phosphorus.

If money was no object, I would just buy the Amsoil oil that their website recommends.


Vehicle has a dry sump, oil tank holds about 8 liters and engine, hoses, filters and all hold about 4 liter.

Money spent on car is not major issue, though I sure don't like wasting it either.
 
You want at least 1200 ppm of zinc and 1000 ppm of phosphorus for mild performance or aircooled applications.
If your talking about an engine with a really aggressive flat tappet and dual springs you might look into a race oil for lower detergent levels. Calcium tends to try and strip off ZDDP plating as its forming. You would want something with even higher levels of ZDDP and around 1000 ppm of calcium (just enough to keep it from sludging up)
 
The engine is in a Porsche 993, it has self adjusting hydraulic tappet valves,with two plugs per cylinder. While car is not driven daily I have to say it is put thru it's paces once oil reaches operating temperature.
 
Its so difficult to say really now a days. Its not like back in the day when ZDDP is all you had to "cushion" the valve train. Now a days with "Nano" technology of which the BIG 3 in oil use dont even show up in our VOA's or UOA's.

Boron, Moly, To name a few are also very good at protecting components. ZDDP is high in almost all racing oils so take your pick of those.

Just don't undermine the value of other ingredients. ZDDP only being your main concern? Look at race oils. Anything over 1100ppm seems to be on the "race" oil side.

Hope this helps?

Jeff
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: ron in sc

The engine is in a Porsche 993, it has self adjusting hydraulic tappet valves,with two plugs per cylinder. While car is not driven daily I have to say it is put thru it's paces once oil reaches operating temperature.


If the engine is already broke in good any euro or synthetic HDEO with 1000-1200 ppm of zinc and 800-1000 ppm of phosphorus would probably be all the protection you need then. If cost is no concern something like redline with its high ZDDP and high Moly would be a perfect overkill as far as protection.
what I would be more concerned about is oil temps and an oil (with the right add pack) that could handle it....again redline comes to mind but im sure there are about a hundred oils that would work just fine.
 
Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
Its so difficult to say really now a days. Its like back in the day when ZDDP is all we had to "cushion" the valve train. Now a days with "Nano" technology of which the BIG 3 in oil use dont even show up in our VOA's or UOA's.

Boron, Moly, To name a few are also very good at protecting components. ZDDP is high in almost all racing oils so take your pick of those.

Just don't undermine the value of other ingredients. ZDDP only being your main concern? Look at race oils. Anything over 1100ppm seems to be on the "race" oil side.

Hope this helps?

Jeff


I am looking at racing oils or high performance synthetic only. I have used same consistently. What other chemicals or things should I be looking for, i.e., other ingredients.

I want to change from the oil I've been using because it has much lower levels of zinc and phosphorus than it used to.
 
Originally Posted By: ron in sc
I want to change from the oil I've been using because it has much lower levels of zinc and phosphorus than it used to.


Mobil 1 V-Twin 20W-50 is their recommended product for air-cooled Porsche engines -- 1600ppm phosphorus, 1750ppm zinc.

Good luck.
 
Originally Posted By: ron in sc
Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
Its so difficult to say really now a days. Its like back in the day when ZDDP is all we had to "cushion" the valve train. Now a days with "Nano" technology of which the BIG 3 in oil use dont even show up in our VOA's or UOA's.

Boron, Moly, To name a few are also very good at protecting components. ZDDP is high in almost all racing oils so take your pick of those.

Just don't undermine the value of other ingredients. ZDDP only being your main concern? Look at race oils. Anything over 1100ppm seems to be on the "race" oil side.

Hope this helps?

Jeff


I am looking at racing oils or high performance synthetic only. I have used same consistently. What other chemicals or things should I be looking for, i.e., other ingredients.

I want to change from the oil I've been using because it has much lower levels of zinc and phosphorus than it used to.


Moly helps ALOT but its not a replacement for ZDDP. If you could find an oil thats extremely heat stable and has good ZDDP levels with a healthy shot of moly that would be superb. ....not to sound like a broken record but again redline comes to mind.
lol.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
Originally Posted By: ron in sc
I want to change from the oil I've been using because it has much lower levels of zinc and phosphorus than it used to.


Mobil 1 V-Twin 20W-50 is their recommended product for air-cooled Porsche engines -- 1600ppm phosphorus, 1750ppm zinc.

Good luck.


And its for aircooled engines so you know it can take some heat
thumbsup2.gif
 
Well the OP didn't want to get into a brand bias war here and I understand why it will throw what he is seeking out the window. But really? Only 2 oils come to mind here at least to me. Not sure of your weight your wish to use but Redline and Brad Penn are the two brands that keep popping in my head for the OP.

Brad Penn is not fully synthetic, but is a "semi-synthetic" but its a very robust oil.

Maybe go to these respective websites OP and see if anything there suits your fancy?

Jeff
 
Originally Posted By: fonecord2
How about VR1?


^^^^^^^^ Another good one, but its a 20w50 isn't it? Hard to say what the OP requires weight wise.

Jeff
 
Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
Originally Posted By: fonecord2
How about VR1?


^^^^^^^^ Another good one, but its a 20w50 isn't it? Hard to say what the OP requires weight wise.

Jeff


Weight I use has always been 15w50 synthetic .

Can I change to a non-or semi synthetic after always using the same oil?


And incidently you guys have hit on 3 of the brands I'm now considering.
 
Well with Redline you may be able to go down a weight to a 40w since their HTHS of their oils tends to be higher than most.

Brad Penn was used with great sucess in my friends scca sanctioned Evo 8. Granted it wasn't air cooled. Brad Penn is a great oil.

Valvoline VR1 has been used by racers for years and has a good reputation.

Yes you can go from synthetic to non synthetic and since your not driving this vehicle all the time the Brad Penn may serve you very well.

I would give them a call 1st then Redline.

Make your decision after talking with each respective company.

Jeff
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
Well with Redline you may be able to go down a weight to a 40w since their HTHS of their oils tends to be higher than most.

Brad Penn was used with great sucess in my friends scca sanctioned Evo 8. Granted it wasn't air cooled. Brad Penn is a great oil.

Valvoline VR1 has been used by racers for years and has a good reputation.

Yes you can go from synthetic to non synthetic and since your not driving this vehicle all the time the Brad Penn may serve you very well.

I would give them a call 1st then Redline.

Make your decision after talking with each respective company.

Jeff


That pretty well sums it up right there.
thumbsup2.gif
 
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