The bottle on the left is Shell Europe, who is a long time ZF and Mercedes lubricants supplier. The other looks like a Febi Bilstein bottle - who doesn’t make their own oils. ZF has changed suppliers.
ZF Lifeguard 9 compatibility with transmissions that use ZF Lifeguard 8 or Mopar 8&9
- Thread starter CarbonSteel
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I see Mopar 8&9, ZF Lifeguard 8, and ZF Lifeguard 9 listed for it in multiple places online.
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ZF has replaced ZF Lifeguard 8 with ZF Lifeguard 8 ATF.
Has anybody been able to find what changed with the latest revision fluid?
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Nothing about a formulation change, just that it was a supply chain issue. Here from ZF:
Lifeguard 8 ATF - https://aftermarket.zf.com/us/after...il/41be9647-b9cf-4fb1-920f-2fabb2c4be8a/en-US
makes you wonder if they've cut corners to make the formulation supply chain easier to produce...while "claiming" its equivalent and if its better to go with a different ATF like Redline D6? The only concern is really the initial change that now you're blending two different ATF's...
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I would stick with ZF or Mopar and not go to a "universal" or unapproved fluid. I basically blended Mopar (OEM) and ZF LG8 when I changed it in my Wrangler (I did 3 dump and fills) and it is more or less all LG8 at this point, but I do have some LG 8 ATF for the next dump and fill. I have not opened a bottle yet to see if it is still the pale green and stinky fluid that LG8 is.
I am only guessing they could not meet demand with the current suppler for LG8 and went to a different one and rebranded it at that same time. I could not find LG8 anywhere when I checked a month or so ago.
I believe the OE fluids are LG8 just branded with their logos. should be the exact same fluid.
Demand is just a guess though. I wonder if the OP in this thread who already had an email contact would be willing to ask them what changed in the formulation so we can have a definitive answer rather than guessing.
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Great I should have scrolled back up! Please update us all when/if they give any information here. It would be interesting to hear if its just a supplier swap and they decided to separate the part codes for data/warranty/other to make it easier, or if there was an issue getting certain additive packages so they were "adjusted" to be able to get the fluid out the door.I am the OP
I will reach out and see if I can get an answer (email sent).
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The ZF 850RE (and most others I have seen) have no dipstick. They have an oil fill plug on the side of the transmission and it requires a special fill procedure.
Honda has an ATF Type 3.1 for their ZF 9HPs as well. Seems to be LG9, but if ZF says it’s OK in place for LG8, it can be an option.
Right, no dipstick permanently attached, also known as a “sealed transmission”. Reading about the procedure, there is a “stick that dips” 😂 to measure fluid levels at specific temps. I think its 140mm length, not sure.
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Perhaps we are not talking about the same transmission or the same ZF procedure, but for the 850RE (8HP), there is no mention of a "stick that dips" nor would that work anyway since the transmission fill hole is horizontal.
https://aftermarket.zf.com/app/cont...nary/22f16dae-c571-11ec-a2e7-00505690da53.pdf
Yes 9 spd. Sorry for the confusion.
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@ps2cho - here you go--same fluid with a name change:
From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 3, 2023 06:18
To: CarbonSteel
Subject: Your ZF Services Request #967026
Sent: Tuesday, January 3, 2023 06:18
To: CarbonSteel
Subject: Your ZF Services Request #967026
Dear CarbonSteel,
for further processing of your request, we kindly ask for the following information:
The fluids are the same. Both are accepted fluids for the 8hp and the Audi 6hp transmissions. We had a supplier issue and when we used a different supplier we had to provide the name ZF Lifeguard Fluid 8 ATF..
Your question to us:
Can you tell me what the difference is between these two? I know that you published an article (https://aftermarket.zf.com/us/after...il/41be9647-b9cf-4fb1-920f-2fabb2c4be8a/en-US) about supply chain issues, but are these fluid exactly the same, just with a rebranded name?
Thanks!
--
CarbonSteel
>
Please reply to this mail using the “Reply” button of you mail client – DO NOT CHANGE THE E-MAIL SUBJECT.
For further questions or updates please contact ZF Services North America, LLC., telephone: +1 847 478 6868.
Always provide your request ID when contacting us regarding this request, please.
Disclaimer:
THE INFORMATION CONTAINED HEREIN IS PROVIDED TO THE REQUESTOR ON AN "AS IS, WHERE IS" BASIS, WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND (EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED), INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO ANY IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A SPECIFIC OR GENERAL PURPOSE AND THOSE ARISING BY STATUTE OR BY LAW, OR FROM A CAUSE OF DEALING OR USAGE OF TRADE. ZF DOES NOT ACCEPT ANY RESPONSIBILITIES FOR ANY LOSS OR DAMAGE WHATSOEVER ARISING FROM ANY CAUSE WHATSOEVER IN CONNECTION WITH THE INFORMATION PROVIDED HEREIN, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION, ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL, PUNITIVE OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES OF ANY KIND, WHETHER ARISING UNDER BREACH OF CONTRACT, TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE), STRICT LIABILITY OR OTHERWISE, AND WHETHER BASED ON THE INFORMATION PROVIDED HEREIN OR OTHERWISE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES.
Kind regards
Your ZF Service Desk
This is a really great thread, I joined just to comment on it. I also came across this shortage and reached out to ZF before finding this.
The interesting part is that ZF is not permanently replacing one supplier with another. They switched their supplier of ZF8HP oil pans and kept same model number. Yet for Lifeguard 8, they changed part number for this "stopgap" fluid. Their email suggests that original supplier is about to get back to full production, and the regular fluid is about to head to store shelves. I ended up ordering new PN, but after hearing this, promptly returned it. I will stick to original fluid supplier, because something about ZF going back to original makes me doubt this stopgap fluid. I am almost curious to send both fluids to Blackstone for analysis. Maybe we could crowdfund OP to send samples of each version and see the results ourselves. I would be definitely in.
The interesting part is that ZF is not permanently replacing one supplier with another. They switched their supplier of ZF8HP oil pans and kept same model number. Yet for Lifeguard 8, they changed part number for this "stopgap" fluid. Their email suggests that original supplier is about to get back to full production, and the regular fluid is about to head to store shelves. I ended up ordering new PN, but after hearing this, promptly returned it. I will stick to original fluid supplier, because something about ZF going back to original makes me doubt this stopgap fluid. I am almost curious to send both fluids to Blackstone for analysis. Maybe we could crowdfund OP to send samples of each version and see the results ourselves. I would be definitely in.
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For the first two statements in bold--where is that data posted?
For the last statement, why would you doubt it when ZF themselves is saying the two fluids are the same?
Question 1, from ZF:
for further processing of your request, we kindly ask for the following information:
The fluids are the same. The only difference was the suppliers. I believe the original Lifeguard 8 is available again. You could also use Lifeguard 9 in the standard 8hp transmissions, but not the hybrid or EV versions..
Question 2: because this sounds fishy. If fluids are identical, you don't keep original. You replace it with a new one and call it done. Same as they did with the oil pan, original was all black and new one has white filter insert. No big deal, ZF does not make one themselves, it is all contracted out. Different supplier, part number the same. That is a permanent switch. If you make another PN for oil BUT plan on keeping original, it is my personal preference to remain with the original. I'd rather stick with one that was developed before shortages forced the change. Who is going to admit if there were any shortcuts? Paranoid, maybe, but I have 30k to go before my next change on my 328d (I tow with mine, so I do mine every 60k miles). As for wife's X5, I have 5 liters of original I got before the supplier change, she does not tow, so hers is at 90k.
for further processing of your request, we kindly ask for the following information:
The fluids are the same. The only difference was the suppliers. I believe the original Lifeguard 8 is available again. You could also use Lifeguard 9 in the standard 8hp transmissions, but not the hybrid or EV versions..
Question 2: because this sounds fishy. If fluids are identical, you don't keep original. You replace it with a new one and call it done. Same as they did with the oil pan, original was all black and new one has white filter insert. No big deal, ZF does not make one themselves, it is all contracted out. Different supplier, part number the same. That is a permanent switch. If you make another PN for oil BUT plan on keeping original, it is my personal preference to remain with the original. I'd rather stick with one that was developed before shortages forced the change. Who is going to admit if there were any shortcuts? Paranoid, maybe, but I have 30k to go before my next change on my 328d (I tow with mine, so I do mine every 60k miles). As for wife's X5, I have 5 liters of original I got before the supplier change, she does not tow, so hers is at 90k.
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