Zero turn experiences?

[92saturnsl2]

I saw that one the other day when your post spurred me to go look at the Ariens site.

Gorgeous lawn mower!

GET IT!

I'm really leaning toward it, but can't find it locally. I found another Gravely dealer (actually closer to me) sans nasty woman on the phone, that actually sells Ariens. They have a single Apex 60" model in stock, but not the limited model. They're selling it for $6,099 (cash) or $6599 with 0% APR / 48 months. Both options have a $350 rebate at time of sale. Any other Apex model, it'll be at least August before they receive more.

The limited has an extra $500+ price tag, but it includes extra vibration isolation, rubber mat, the website doesn't give great details. I'd really like to compare the two side by side to see what $500 buys you other than a fancy paint job and some rubber bushings. I have a hunch I'll have to drive a good distance to see the two models together.

Lowe's has the 52" Apex in stock, but I don't trust Lowes assembly or for anything service related after the sale. And you're not really saving any money buying at Lowes vs. a dealer from what I can tell.

 

[meep]

Kohler or Kawasaki. You will play ~€££ getting parts for a Briggs and Stratton.

Some years of Kawasaki twins suffer from repeated coil failures. Not sure if the same problems hit any of their singles. The replacement coils fail too, but still last longer than 3rd party knockoffs. Not sure of the year range - neighbor had one and I didn’t believe it until helping him with a couple or repairs on it.

 

[92saturnsl2]

I visited the local dealer that said they had a 60" Ariens Apex model in stock. They fooled me; had both a Limited Edition 60" and regular 60" on their lot, side by side. Differences? Limited seat is higher quality, sits higher with rubber cushions underneath, LED lights and rubber floor mat. Probably some other subtle differences and a paint job that really stands out too. According to Arien/Gravely's website, there should be about a $500 price delta. This dealer is just under $7K for the limited model, but $6K for the ordinary 60" Apex.

 

[MParr]

I visited the local dealer that said they had a 60" Ariens Apex model in stock. They fooled me; had both a Limited Edition 60" and regular 60" on their lot, side by side. Differences? Limited seat is higher quality, sits higher with rubber cushions underneath, LED lights and rubber floor mat. Probably some other subtle differences and a paint job that really stands out too. According to Arien/Gravely's website, there should be about a $500 price delta. This dealer is just under $7K for the limited model, but $6K for the ordinary 60" Apex.

Get the ordinary Apex and have the dealer add a suspension seat. You will thank yourself later.

 

[92saturnsl2]

Get the ordinary Apex and have the dealer add a suspension seat. You will thank yourself later.

That's what I'm inclined to do given they're $1K apart. If I can get them down to MSRP on the Limited ($500 difference), I'd probably lean toward that one. These are the differences that jump out at me:

Factory installed LED headlamps
Higher quality seat w/ rubber isolators
All-terrain tire (vs normal turf tire on standard model)
Rubber foot mat
USB port for charging things
Paint color/finish

I think the extra $500 could be mostly recouped in resale value if I ever sell it, as it's an anniversary model (probably means nothing to most people), but it definitely stands out in a crowd of orange/red/green/yellow machines.

From what I can tell crunching numbers, it makes sense to finance it at the 0% / 48mo. despite the $500 financing charge which they add to the price of the mower. After 48 months, $7K in a high yield savings account or CD should yield about $1.3K in interest.

 

[Zee09]

I saw @fantastic mowing today.
He had 1/4 of an acre and he was using a 72"
Kubota diesel...

 

[MParr]

The seat with the rubber isolators isn’t a big improvement. As I recall, the Gravely ZTHD uses the same seat as standard equipment.
I’m here to tell you that the suspension seat is much better than the one with rubber isolators.

Ariens/Gravely 18" Suspension Seat OEM #79108200 | Safford Equipment Company

Ariens/Gravely 18" Suspension Seat OEM #79108200 This is a Genuine Ariens/Gravely OEM Part. Find this and other great parts at Safford Equipment.

saffordequipment.com

 

[RhondaHonda]

That's what I'm inclined to do given they're $1K apart. If I can get them down to MSRP on the Limited ($500 difference), I'd probably lean toward that one. These are the differences that jump out at me:

Factory installed LED headlamps
Higher quality seat w/ rubber isolators
All-terrain tire (vs normal turf tire on standard model)
Rubber foot mat
USB port for charging things
Paint color/finish

I think the extra $500 could be mostly recouped in resale value if I ever sell it, as it's an anniversary model (probably means nothing to most people), but it definitely stands out in a crowd of orange/red/green/yellow machines.

From what I can tell crunching numbers, it makes sense to finance it at the 0% / 48mo. despite the $500 financing charge which they add to the price of the mower. After 48 months, $7K in a high yield savings account or CD should yield about $1.3K in interest.

Look at Bruno’s power sports in Arkansas before you pull the trigger. Seeing as you are in Kentucky, they probably still do free delivery and when I bought mine was the cheapest by thousands.

 

[fantastic]

I saw @fantastic mowing today.
He had 1/4 of an acre and he was using a 72"
Kubota diesel...

I dream of being in your all's Spartan HP club every time I mow...
The wife must tell me to "focus on the road" when we pass the gray brands dealer.

 

[92saturnsl2]

The seat with the rubber isolators isn’t a big improvement. As I recall, the Gravely ZTHD uses the same seat as standard equipment.
I’m here to tell you that the suspension seat is much better than the one with rubber isolators.

Ariens/Gravely 18" Suspension Seat OEM #79108200 | Safford Equipment Company

Ariens/Gravely 18" Suspension Seat OEM #79108200 This is a Genuine Ariens/Gravely OEM Part. Find this and other great parts at Safford Equipment.

saffordequipment.com

You're not wrong, the XT HD has those, but you pay the $500 Gravely brand penalty (in regular orange) and get basically the same thing as the Ariens LE for the same price, if not a bit more. I don't have the budget for that full seat upgrade.

Look at Bruno’s power sports in Arkansas before you pull the trigger. Seeing as you are in Kentucky, they probably still do free delivery and when I bought mine was the cheapest by thousands.

Thank for that. I actually shopped Ferris online and prices were well above what I wanted to spend. I believe they're owned by Briggs & Stratton and are a high-end residential to commerical mower, which is what I'm looking for. I need to do more research, some of the models in my price range have full suspension. I have no skin in the game Kowasaki vs Briggs, I've owned plenty of the latter which have always served me well.

 

[RhondaHonda]

You're not wrong, the XT HD has those, but you pay the $500 Gravely brand penalty (in regular orange) and get basically the same thing as the Ariens LE for the same price, if not a bit more. I don't have the budget for that full seat upgrade.

Thank for that. I actually shopped Ferris online and prices were well above what I wanted to spend. I believe they're owned by Briggs & Stratton and are a high-end residential to commerical mower, which is what I'm looking for. I need to do more research, some of the models in my price range have full suspension. I have no skin in the game Kowasaki vs Briggs, I've owned plenty of the latter which have always served me well.

I have a Ferris walk behind with the 28HP Vanguard EFI. Very solid mower and tons of power. If my yard wasn’t so steep in spots, I’d have a Ferris zero turn. Lawncare companies here are 60/39/1% Ferris/Exmark/other. Call Bruno’s tomorrow for a price on a zero turn. My only gripe was it showing up on a semi flatbed and me having to back it down the ramps that were pretty widely spaced in the rain having never run one before. Handed the driver an envelope of cash and off I went.

 

[IveBeenRued]

I have a Ferris walk behind with the 28HP Vanguard EFI. Very solid mower and tons of power. If my yard wasn’t so steep in spots, I’d have a Ferris zero turn. Lawncare companies here are 60/39/1% Ferris/Exmark/other. Call Bruno’s tomorrow for a price on a zero turn. My only gripe was it showing up on a semi flatbed and me having to back it down the ramps that were pretty widely spaced in the rain having never run one before. Handed the driver an envelope of cash and off I went.

When Bruno’s dropped off my Ferris, the driver backed mine off the trailer. As for the commercial guys, Ferris easily makes up 50% in my area as well.

I’ve also been noticing that the commercial guys have a clear preference for the Briggs Commercial and Vanguard branded motors over the Kawasakis lately. I asked one that was doing the grounds around my local Walmart about it. Sounds like the Kawasaki FX is at most an 800-1000 hour motor. He said the base Briggs Commercial has a Vanguard block and is good for 2.5-3K with just oil changes.

 

[SHOZ]

On my JD Z320m I moved the seat one more notch back, had to drill a hole in the seat base. And elevated the front by a 1/2" with spacers and longer bolts. Made it like sitting in my easy chair.

I really miss one handed steering.

 

[92saturnsl2]

I’ve also been noticing that the commercial guys have a clear preference for the Briggs Commercial and Vanguard branded motors over the Kawasakis lately. I asked one that was doing the grounds around my local Walmart about it. Sounds like the Kawasaki FX is at most an 800-1000 hour motor. He said the base Briggs Commercial has a Vanguard block and is good for 2.5-3K with just oil changes.

Seems to me that Kawasaki has pretty much taken over a majority of the market. Even John Deere is now slapping their label over top of them. I'm pretty sure nearly all of the residential stuff is made in China (e.g. FR series). Reminds me of the Kohler Command V-Twins in the early 00's. They took over Onans in a lot of equipment because they were cheaper to produce.

 

[350Rocket]

Kawasaki seems to be plenty popular in these machines. Reminds me of Kohler V-Twins in the late 90's - 00's; nearly all manufacturers switched from Onan & even Briggs to Kohler, not necessarily for the better. Is there a compelling reason to prefer Kawasaki over a Briggs or Kohler engine? I have a hunch that there's no bad engine choice in this price range, but correct me if I'm wrong.

My dad has a 2004 23hp Kohler command v twin with 1400 hours on it still running.
I have a 2007 courage 23hp v twin with 398 hours on it. I had to have the valves adjusted and a starter on the courage and I think dad has done nothing to his but maintenance.
The single cylinder courage engines were not very good. The Kohler v twins seem to be better than a lot of the Briggs.
Kawasaki is still probably the best option but my small sample size of Kohler has been good.

 

[92saturnsl2]

My dad has a 2004 23hp Kohler command v twin with 1400 hours on it still running.
I have a 2007 courage 23hp v twin with 398 hours on it. I had to have the valves adjusted and a starter on the courage and I think dad has done nothing to his but maintenance.

They are awesome engines. My 2000 Craftsman 23HP Kohler V-Twin is still chugging along nicely, no idea how many hours are on it. Another mower I had from that era burned oil so bad I had to take it out of service, but I can't blame that on the engine. Our Lincoln & Miller gas-powered welders at work are powered by them. 2K+ hours, no trouble at all, have a few in service with over 5K. Bent pushrods were the only failures I ever came across.

 

[IveBeenRued]

Seems to me that Kawasaki has pretty much taken over a majority of the market. Even John Deere is now slapping their label over top of them. I'm pretty sure nearly all of the residential stuff is made in China (e.g. FR series). Reminds me of the Kohler Command V-Twins in the early 00's. They took over Onans in a lot of equipment because they were cheaper to produce.

Not saying that Kawasaki is bad. Just that many of the commercial guys in my local area are heading to Vanguard, Briggs Commercial, and Kohler nowadays. I personally jumped from Kawasaki FR730V (residential) to a Briggs Commercial Turf. The FR is a 250-500 hour motor. At 200 hours, mine was already burning about as much oil as it does gas (joking, but she sure does smoke).

A few years back, Kawasaki had moved their viscosity recommendation to 10W-30 but this caused major issues. They slowly ticked it upwards, first 10W-40 and then 20W-50 via TSBs but they failed to communicate that to any owners. So unless you got your machines serviced at the dealer, you were left in the dark. My guess is the that at least some of the commercial guys also got burned by this and may explain the shift away from Kawasaki.

 

[Zee09]

Some years of Kawasaki twins suffer from repeated coil failures. Not sure if the same problems hit any of their singles. The replacement coils fail too, but still last longer than 3rd party knockoffs. Not sure of the year range - neighbor had one and I didn’t believe it until helping him with a couple or repairs on it.

Dealers always steered me away from Kawasaki engines even when they had a bunch in stock. Expensive parts and in 2017 it was bad FI. on them.
Just repeating what many said. I am not ruling out a future purchase however

 

[SHOZ]

John Deere has been using Kawasaki engines since the 1990s. Started with their snowmobiles.

 

[92saturnsl2]

Pulled the trigger today. I was considering three options: Toro Titan (available at Lowes), a Ferris and the Ariens Apex.

I called Bruno's and their 500S was what fits my budget (they quoted about $6500 w/ delivery). There's a huge price gap to the next model IS600 which puts you into commercial territory, nearing $10K. With the 500S you gained the nice suspension and serviceable spindles which I really liked, but it had ZT-2800 transaxles which lack the expansion tanks (super easy to fill and monitor fluid level) that the ZT-3100 on the Ariens has. Availability and local dealer favored the Ariens.

The Toro Titan at Lowes caught my eye. The deck really stood out, they use angled steel as reinforcement @ front of the deck, where they tend to get bashed on tree roots, hidden stumps and such. All other makes w/ fabricated decks just slap a narrow 3/16" thick flat bar across the bottom portion, which is at least something, but flat bar bends like any other flat steel if you hit it hard enough. It was less expensive but lacked armrests, had cheaper plastic moldings, was very clear it's built to a lower price point.

Long story short, the Ariens won out. I was able to haggle the dealer down to normal MSRP on the Limited model, $6599. They threw the expected financing charges on there for using the 0% APR / 48mo, but still came in under $7K after tax and Arien's $350 off promotion. All dealers I talked to (across all makes including Bruno's) had similar financing options. The catch is that you HAVE to pay it off in 48 months, otherwise you get deferred interested (could possibly be in the thousands) slapped on if you don't pay it off in time, so buyer beware. A lot of people don't understand this and simply make the minimum payments, which is less than what's required to pay it off in 48 months.

I think I got lucky in that the floor/display model (the one I was looking at) was sold yesterday. I imagine that's the one they drive out front once a day for who knows how long, only to return it to storage when the shop is closed. Probably racks up a lot of hours doing nothing. They had another one in inventory they brought out, has 0.3 hours on the clock.

Sorry for the long winded post, but hope these comparisons help other searching for ZTM in 2024. Now to the photos, gets delivered tomorrow.