Z-Alt Muscle Car Oil

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Originally Posted By: Camman
Hello PCFxer,
Thank you for your concern, if requested I can show you the lab test and spectroscopy wear analysis testing on my engine.

I was using Shell Rotella because of the Zinc present in the oil then I switched to Redline........not a good choice, the esters in the synthetic oil created plastics in the cylinders......particle count testing scared me to death because of the cost of the pistons alone in this engine.......major fuel in the oil causing reduced viscosity, not good for oil pressure.

Most Amsoil and Royal Purple dealers have an issue when a new oil is entered into the market......I can say I bet 90% of Hemi, Boss and Wedge engine builders dont use Amsoil in their engines.

Check the Moly and Zinc in Redline, you may be suprised what is "not" there........

We tested the Joe Gibbs against the Z-Alt in many applications, although Joe Gibbs is a great guy and a great coach, the oil does not hold up under extreme loads and heat.....as well as others on the market......the Z-Alt 20w50 did a great job under load.

I really do hate the people that slam something new that they have not tested or used........how can you judge something you have not tried? I guess all the years of analytical testing is just wasted time and hear-say is the way to go because you heard something on the internet.

Boss302fan, you are right, the can is cool......and yes there really is some corrosion inhibitors in the oil. We did a lead corrosion test to see the effects on an EMD engine, less than 22ppm was present and passing was 45ppm or less. I can let you know the moly and zinc numbers are impressive, but I have been asked not to express those numbers from the main testing we did at this time.

I have used their 10X additive in a couiple of applications as well, very impressed........I think this is the same chemistry in their oil.







Oddly enough, there is another member on this board who racked up 100,000 miles on an LT1, and for many of those miles, that engine was making 1,000HP. It was run on Redline and spec'd out to "new specs" upon disassembly..... That's a lot of miles of experience there.......
 
People just have a hard time when brand new products are marketed with exaggerated statements like this one:

Originally Posted By: Z-Alt
Racing Oil – is being used as a substitute, but it is not engineered for extended use. It has low levels of the needed detergents and high levels of paraffin-based, friction reducing additives that can actually lead to deposits being built up in your engine.” Z-Alt – Know Your Oil - link


Really!?!?

Example:

Pablo’s Amsoil RD20 Racing Oil VOA - link

Zinc = 1676
Phos = 1509
TBN = 6.41
Four Ball Wear Test ASTM D-4172 = 0.49
Kinematic Viscosity @ 100°C, cSt (ASTM D-445) = 9.0

Pablo's 9.9K mile Amsoil 5w-20 RD20 2006 Honda Odyssey UOA – link - That's nearly 10,000-miles on a Race Oil Formulation.

Originally Posted By: Camman
Most Amsoil and Royal Purple dealers have an issue when a new oil is entered into the market......I can say I bet 90% of Hemi, Boss and Wedge engine builders dont use Amsoil in their engines.


The owner of this “Hemi” shown in the pic below must be in that 10 percentile who has had great success with Amsoil Racing Oil in his street driven muscle car.

4145144-IM000456.JPG


Finally, the 2007, 2008 and 2009 Amsoil/Mopar Muscle Magazine Engine Challenge has had no oil related issues with the numerous 700+ Horsepower “Wedge” engines in that contest; with both flat –tappet and roller camshafts.

Not saying Z-Alt is a bad product. I have not used it. But marketing it as if it’s the only good alternative to the classic car enthusiast is a bit out there. There are multiple alternatives out there that work well.
 
Would like to see some Blackstone reports on this oil. I will try it in Spring but it would be nice to have someone in a warmer climate try it out.
 
Originally Posted By: Boss302fan
Would like to see some Blackstone reports on this oil. I will try it in Spring but it would be nice to have someone in a warmer climate try it out.


The streetable Amsoil Race Oil is available in 5W-20, 10W-30, and 15W-50 viscosities; all of which use the same robust additive package. So selecting the right viscosity for the right climate shouldn't be an issue.

Also notable is this post from the VOA thread by MolaKule:

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
RD20 does appear to have some Boron, about a 10-15 ppm target.

Quote:
Here, on paper, we have a 'weakish' add-pack (for argument, no Moly, Boron, and Ca less that 2500ppm), and a TBN of only 6.4, which is low for Amsoil. Even with these facts,


Esters and special polymers can beef up the oil.

In a race oil you want less calcium metals so TBN will be lower, less Moly metals, and magnesium metals for lower ash.

Probably not a long OCI oil, but may be a sreamer for qualifying and for cars using 5W20 for grins.


BITOG user: MolaKule (User Profile):
Occupation: Physicist;, Systems Engineer in Aerospace Propulsion and Systems. Member of AIP, AAPT, STLE, and AIAA.
Hobbies: Tribology/Lubricants/Additives, Thermodynamics, Physical and Organic Chemistry, General and Amateur Radio Operator, EXTRA
 
The Amsoil 15W50 race oil sounds interesting as long as I can pop it in my car and change it once per year. My miles range from 500-2000 miles per car. How is it in keeping the internal engine clean? Race oil usually have minimal cleaners. How does this oil compare to Mobil 1's 15W50 oil?

My previous post, I was referring to wanting to see a Blackstone report on the 20W50 Z-ALT oil... Maybe they don't want us to see it? I think I may just return the case that I have because they do not respond here or via email. Not usually good when that happens. LOL.
 
sounds like hype...

We run the Amsoil Dominator racing oil in two different streeters and a boat. One is a fairly radical 500+ hp stroker small block. The boat motor is a blown big block Chev with over 800hp.

if you're changing at shorter intervals it's a GREAT oil.
 
Z-ALT never replys to emails, so maybe they are a company that you should not take a chance on.

I purchased a case so maybe I'll stick it on my shelf as a decoration. You want to take a chance on a company and help them out, then they do not respond to emails. Very poor when you are just starting out...Does not look good for their future. I would recommend that you stay away from this company and their motor oil.
 
Originally Posted By: Boss302fan
Z-ALT never replys to emails, so maybe they are a company that you should not take a chance on.

I purchased a case so maybe I'll stick it on my shelf as a decoration. You want to take a chance on a company and help them out, then they do not respond to emails. Very poor when you are just starting out...Does not look good for their future. I would recommend that you stay away from this company and their motor oil.


Maybe you could open a can and do a VOA and then leave the rest on your shelf as decoration.
 
Originally Posted By: postjeeprcr
Originally Posted By: Boss302fan
Z-ALT never replys to emails, so maybe they are a company that you should not take a chance on.

I purchased a case so maybe I'll stick it on my shelf as a decoration. You want to take a chance on a company and help them out, then they do not respond to emails. Very poor when you are just starting out...Does not look good for their future. I would recommend that you stay away from this company and their motor oil.


Maybe you could open a can and do a VOA and then leave the rest on your shelf as decoration.



I am probably going to do that. I did hear back from Z-ALT and they said that the oil was refined by Chevron and had ZDDP of around 1750PPM and Phos of around 1850 PPM. I'll send in a sample to Blackstone after the New Year and we will see how it turns out.
 
Z-ALT is having some additional oil analysis done so hopefully it will be posted ASAP. I am thinking that they should have waited on mkting their products until they had all their testing finished.
 
Originally Posted By: Boss302fan
Z-ALT is having some additional oil analysis done so hopefully it will be posted ASAP. I am thinking that they should have waited on mkting their products until they had all their testing finished.


Whether it be information or dis-information, with the internet and forums like BITOG, I’d imagine it’s more difficult today for companies to market their new revolutionary life changing products and not have people say hey! Wait a minute! Let me Google that and do some research before I buy.
 
Hrmm, the part that got me was that they were very quick to point out me pessimism without letting the product speak for itself. This is why I love talking about Amsoil, Redline and Royal Purple. Plunk the bottle on the table and point at it, then say, "yepp."

Trying to diffuse my arguments is pointless as I don't really have more credibility on here than anyone else and the reason why I enjoy Amsoil is loosely scientific for the simple lack of measuring tools. That said, I do know a thing or two about scammers and I have NEVER been scammed.

Boss302fan, I commend you for taking the leap what car may/or may you not be trying this oil on?
 
Hey Boss302fan,
I like your screen name, hope that is a 302 Stang we are talking about....lol
I have a big block Fox Body I race at the track, fun car for sure.

On the Z-Alt Oil, they had done all their testing before they went to market. They spent over $70,000.00 having the additive part of the product tested at Harris Testing Labs, LubeTrak Labs and Herguth Labs using ASTM procedures for Lead Corrosion, Copper Corrosion, Seal Expansion (SAE 2643), and many other load rate tests using Falex Pin machines and more. The reason I know this is I was part of the testing team before Z-Alt decided to market their product at SEMA this year. When I was doing some of the test, I was impressed to see the results they used in their additive pack, and their friction reducing additive without a Chlorine trace like Prolong, DuraLube, IXL and others. Although chlorine is a great friction reducer, the long term effect can destroy camshafts, blocks, rods, seals and lifters. The acids that build up from chlorine based products are shown when a lab test TAN (Total Acid Number) of the oil and also looking at the Oxidation and Nitration levels would scare one to death when seeing what chlorine can do.

Z-Alt uses a great deal of Zinc and Phosphorous in their oil formulas, but in their pour in additive, they use "0" Zinc to keep the EPA happy. Great for camshaft break-in, used it on a 302 solid lifter set up and also a 360 Dodge set up last month, worked great.

I use their 20w50 in my big block Ford, all roller, C-heads, dyno 940 to the rear wheels and have great luck with performance. I pulled the engine down to look at bearings last week, no need to change them out, just new gaskets for this years race season.
Here are the analytical testing results on the 20w50 from our lab:
Zinc: 1862 ppm
Phosphorous: 1734 ppm
Moly: 1219 ppm
Calcium: 72 ppm
Viscosity @ 100 cSt: 19.5
TBN: 8.0

Thanks again for the input, I think you will like it in your car this summer.
 
Those look like VERY solid numbers for additives. Really high Zinc and Moly numbers, wow. I am leaning towards trying it in my 1963 Ford Galaxie R code(427) in Spring.

Just wanted to see more people try Z-ALT 20W50 before I poured it in my original numbers matching 427. It would really suck if it did not work well in my 427. Really not into tearing down a low mileage original engine.

Thanks for the info.
 
Originally Posted By: Camman
Hey Boss302fan,
I like your screen name, hope that is a 302 Stang we are talking about....lol
I have a big block Fox Body I race at the track, fun car for sure.

On the Z-Alt Oil, they had done all their testing before they went to market. They spent over $70,000.00 having the additive part of the product tested at Harris Testing Labs, LubeTrak Labs and Herguth Labs using ASTM procedures for Lead Corrosion, Copper Corrosion, Seal Expansion (SAE 2643), and many other load rate tests using Falex Pin machines and more. The reason I know this is I was part of the testing team before Z-Alt decided to market their product at SEMA this year. When I was doing some of the test, I was impressed to see the results they used in their additive pack, and their friction reducing additive without a Chlorine trace like Prolong, DuraLube, IXL and others. Although chlorine is a great friction reducer, the long term effect can destroy camshafts, blocks, rods, seals and lifters. The acids that build up from chlorine based products are shown when a lab test TAN (Total Acid Number) of the oil and also looking at the Oxidation and Nitration levels would scare one to death when seeing what chlorine can do.

Z-Alt uses a great deal of Zinc and Phosphorous in their oil formulas, but in their pour in additive, they use "0" Zinc to keep the EPA happy. Great for camshaft break-in, used it on a 302 solid lifter set up and also a 360 Dodge set up last month, worked great.

I use their 20w50 in my big block Ford, all roller, C-heads, dyno 940 to the rear wheels and have great luck with performance. I pulled the engine down to look at bearings last week, no need to change them out, just new gaskets for this years race season.
Here are the analytical testing results on the 20w50 from our lab:
Zinc: 1862 ppm
Phosphorous: 1734 ppm
Moly: 1219 ppm
Calcium: 72 ppm
Viscosity @ 100 cSt: 19.5
TBN: 8.0

Thanks again for the input, I think you will like it in your car this summer.


That Calcium number has to be a mistake, is it not? I don't see how an 8.0 TBN oil can have no Ca detergent in it.

Or does it use a Magnesium-based detergent?
 
Anyone else using this oil? I just did an oil change with the 20W50 yesterday and I will let everyone know how it goes the next month or so...
 
Originally Posted By: Boss302fan
I am leaning towards trying it in my 1963 Ford Galaxie R code(427) in Spring.



32.gif
Boss302fan, do you happen to have a picture of this 63 Ford Galaxie R code (427)?
 
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