You Can't Change Your Oil Too Much!

[SammyChevelleTypeS3]

I mean, there was a class action lawsuit in Canada and intervention by the Chinese government, it's not like it's a total non-issue.
https://www.mckenzielake.com/honda-oil-dilution/
http://www.hondaodcsettlement.ca/media/3096300/v8_hoq_notice_110320_final.pdf

US Class Action:
https://www.carcomplaints.com/news/2022/honda-oil-dilution-lawsuit-accord-civic-cr-v.shtml

And the previous one mentioned in that above article:
https://www.carcomplaints.com/news/2020/honda-oil-dilution-settlement-preliminarily-approved.shtml

Consumer Reports:
https://www.consumerreports.org/car...a-extends-warranty-on-troubled-turbo-engines/

NHTSA:
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2018/MC-10152402-0001.pdf
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2019/MC-10158743-0001.pdf
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As usual....... Thanks a bunch for finding and posting this that a lot of us will be glad to read up on.

 

[TiGeo]

Who cares what the dealer says or thinks? Do you honestly think a crankcase diluted with over a quart of gasoline, is helping the longevity of said engine? Or, that such a condition is "normal"?

Define normal.

 

[SammyChevelleTypeS3]

The same thing the dealers says. "It's normal".

I wouldn't believe Honda if they told me the sky was blue. I go by what I see and experience.

 

[TiGeo]

I wouldn't believe Honda if they told me the sky was blue. I go by what I see and experience.

But that's just it...nobody actually has the experience to base all the hysteria over this issue on. I don't see/hear aobut Honda engines having any issues by all my friends/neighbors that have them. At this point we'd know if this was an issue that was worth worrying about.

 

[nicholas]

No-IMHO even for those motors anything earlier than 5,000 miles is a money flush.-JMHO.

Cool.

I have a UOA showing +5% fuel after 3 months and 1,300 kms. If I let that run to 7500kms my chains, bearings and rings would not be too happy.

 

[CKN]

Cool.

I have a UOA showing +5% fuel after 3 months and 1,300 kms. If I let that run to 7500kms my chains, bearings and rings would not be too happy.

Sorry-It's not going to blow up. It won't. And if it did-you have a 100,000 powertrain warranty-assuming you are the original owner. Why do I know it won't blow up? Because 95% (or more) are not doing what you are doing.

 

[TiGeo]

Sorry-It's not goin g to blow up. It won't.

And that may drop on a long trip where the oil is at full temp for a reasonable period..who know. I'm not discounting fuel dilution as a "not great to have".

 

[tolian21]

At this point we'd know if this was an issue that was worth worrying about.

Are you suggesting that 5% fuel in oil is normal and that was part of the design by Honda?

 

[billt460]

Sorry-It's not going to blow up. It won't. And if it did-you have a 100,000 powertrain warranty-assuming you are the original owner. Why do I know it won't blow up? Because 95% (or more) are not doing what you are doing.

Carry this over to personal health. There are people running around with blood sugar levels well over 300, and A1C levels of 9+. It doesn't mean they're going to die. It doesn't.

 

[billt460]

Define normal.

The complete B.S. the dealer tells a customer when they know it's not right, but won't dare admit to it.

 

[billt460]

Are you suggesting that 5% fuel in oil is normal and that was part of the design by Honda?

In the video I posted, it showed a full quart OVER FULL, on what I'm assuming is a 5 quart system. That's 20% minimum.

 

[CarbonSteel]

It's difficult to make any solid conclusions from this study. They only tested completely fresh oil vs used oil that had a minimum of 3000 miles of use. Oil is never completely fresh, as there's usually around a litre of oil remaining in the engine after an oil change, and we don't know how this mixing would affect the oil's wear properties. We also can't tell how long it takes for wear to normalize. We only know that it happens some time within 3000 miles. For all we know, wear could normalize within 50 miles after an oil change.

The study also only looks at valvetrain wear, and is based on bench tests instead of actual engine operation on a dyno, so its scope is rather limited. I've seen at least two other studies that use different methods and they don't show a very significant difference in wear between fresh and used motor oil.

I fully agree and I do not think they completely flushed the engine between runs either and so to your point, the results would be contaminated from the previous runs. While I agree that wear metal counts in a UOA increase after an oil change, without separating potential sources of contamination, it is just noise...

 

[Nesterenko]

An oil change is cheap insurance; if I'm using a conventional oil (generally an HDEO), it gets changed every 2,500 km (1,563 mi). If I'm using a synthetic, it gets changed every 5,000 km (3,000 mi) with synthetic media filters every alternate oil change. If it is a GM vehicle with an OLM, it gets a drain and refill for every 25% decrease in oil life with conventional oil and a drain and refill for every 50% decrease in oil life with synthetic. Once oil life is reduced to ~1%, it gets a new oil and air filter. Air filters are replaced every 5,000 km (3,000 km) regardless of oil change interval. Excessive ambient temperatures (125+ °F), extremely dusty operating conditions, heavy stop and go traffic and poor fuel quality are my justifications. YMMV.

More is not necessarily better. Let the TCB develop. Cheap insurance, sure. I think I'll throw away my 5k mile tires, makes me feel warm and fuzzy all over. What was good enough for my grand daddy is good enough for me. Get a grip. What a waste!

 

[SavetheRimBrake]

You wait that long on some of these new "improved" Honda engines, and you'll be doing a gasoline flush.

Yea that issue isn’t blown out of proportion at all

 

[billt460]

Yea that issue isn’t blown out of proportion at all

Being told by a dealer in writing, that a quart of gasoline polluting your crankcase oil is "normal", isn't blowing something, "out of proportion". It's preposterous. And borders on fraudulent.

 

[Heywood_6078]

Wow. Interesting.

 

[SavetheRimBrake]

Being told by a dealer in writing, that a quart of gasoline polluting your crankcase oil is "normal", isn't blowing something, "out of proportion". It's preposterous. And borders on fraudulent.

The brainiacs here have identified the cause but can’t seem to identify any real effect outside of theoretical “you don’t want fuel in your oil do you”. Dilution is not even unique to Honda

Without asking dumb questions or making loaded statements or talking about your theories, show me one example of what diluted oil has actually done to engine internals that has everyone so hot and bothered.

 

[TiGeo]

The complete B.S. the dealer tells a customer when they know it's not right, but won't dare admit to it.

If Honda designed the motor this way....it is as much as you may not like it..."normal" for that engine.

 

[OVERKILL]

If Honda designed the motor this way....it is as much as you may not like it..."normal" for that engine.

Honda having to reprogram them to try and reduce the severity of the problem would lead me to believe that they didn't plan this.

 

[JimPghPA]

Engine air filters tend to get more efficient because the dust cake attracts more particles from the air, until it becomes too dirty. Oil filters should always get less efficient as they load as the more load the higher the pressure is forced against the remaining open pores which can force marginal sized particles through that would've been trapped at a lower pressure drop

Considering that in most hydrocarbon burning engines of motorized vehicles the oil filter spends a great portion of its life with the bypass valve open, it is not likely that the above statement really makes that much of a difference.