Yes, warming up your car before driving in cold weather can damage the engine

[supton]

I had a few manual choke vehicles. That and a stick shift can cripple and sideline a entire generation.

Just one generation? I’m thinking my parents might be stumped too, manual choke being passe since they were kids. Maybe dad would be fine, chokes still being on ope an all. Well, for now, but even there it’s going away (with electrification).

 

[demarpaint]

Just one generation? I’m thinking my parents might be stumped too, manual choke being passe since they were kids. Maybe dad would be fine, chokes still being on ope an all. Well, for now, but even there it’s going away (with electrification).

I guess I'm real old then, maybe a couple of generations?

 

[bullwinkle]

Personally, when the REAL cold hits (like tomorrow & Saturday here), I'll keep the RPMs up to around 2K once the oil pressure comes up, in neutral with the clutch released to thin out the MTF, and once defrosting action begins I'll drive it & baby it until it makes full operating temp. I live in the valley here in Cincy, & many times the windshield will refrost as fast as you can scrape it until heat starts to come up. I'm not running into something or someone BC some internet doofus says "it's bad for your engine" with ZERO proof!

 

[demarpaint]

Personally, when the REAL cold hits (like tomorrow & Saturday here), I'll keep the RPMs up to around 2K once the oil pressure comes up, in neutral with the clutch released to thin out the MTF, and once defrosting action begins I'll baby it until it makes full operating temp. I live in the valley here in Cincy, & many times the windshield will refrost as fast as you can scrape it until heat starts to come up. I'm not running into something or someone BC some internet doofus says "it's bad for your engine" with ZERO proof!

Common sense applies, and safety comes first.

 

[bullwinkle]

Just one generation? I’m thinking my parents might be stumped too, manual choke being passe since they were kids. Maybe dad would be fine, chokes still being on ope an all. Well, for now, but even there it’s going away (with electrification).

I actually liked manual chokes back in the day, they could prop idle up a little until a carbed engine got fully warmed up & prevent stalling.

 

[gathermewool]

This don’t warm your car up thing comes up every year. One year I tried to go deep down the rabbit hole to see if I could find any actual data. I found countless articles that referred to other articles and eventually I found a few that referred to a report published by “automotive consultant” Based out of Northern Virginia where one person said, who is supposedly an expert in automobiles, that warming up was not required. All these articles seem to refer to this person, and I could find no study or actual data. If anyone knows of such information please point me in the right direction.

This is yet one step further. Making the argument that you don’t need to warm your car up is one thing. Saying that idling actually hurts your car, with a closed loop controlled engine Is to me utter nonsense.

Are there any modern cars that startup and run in close-loop immediately. As far as I know, cars operate in OL until the cat warms up.

 

[bullwinkle]

Common sense applies, and safety comes first.

Yes, and the web amplifies people with very little knowledge and common sense. Short of 2 identical engines, one warmed & one not, and a complete teardown & inspection, there's no real way to identify whether warmups hurt or not. I believe there's way more important factors that determine maximum engine life, we all know what they are...

 

[bullwinkle]

Are there any modern cars that startup and run in close-loop immediately. As far as I know, cars operate in OL until the cat warms up.

My Toyotas show closed loop immediately (maybe because of heated O2 sensors?) and the xB occasionally throws an O2 code instantly on a cold start, which goes away & usually doesn't come back until extreme cold returns.

 

[supton]

I actually liked manual chokes back in the day, they could prop idle up a little until a carbed engine got fully warmed up & prevent stalling.

Probably worked better as things wore out or got out of adjustment too.

Are there any modern cars that startup and run in close-loop immediately. As far as I know, cars operate in OL until the cat warms up.

I think they just need the O2 sensor to get warm enough, then they can be closed loop. Might be crazy rich but the computer will know exactly how rich it is.

 

[gathermewool]

Common sense applies, and safety comes first.

Exactly. I most often do NOT have frost issues in winter, so driving off immediately works for me. The defogger doesn’t need heat to work and if there is a risk of frost I’ll wait. As a note, I‘m the type to clear ALL of the snow off of my car; I don’t mess around. I care about my engine, sure, but I couldn’t care less whether I need to idle the car to warm up and help de-ice or drive off immediately.

My family is also fine with getting in the car and going, even in very cold temps. We usually keep blankets and such in the car anyway. I‘ve made it clear to my wife that if she wants to have some heat before getting in the car, go for it. I don’t care. She never asks for that and my kids never complain of being cold.

 

[pcoxe]

I crank as soon as I get in the car and then spend a couple of minutes getting strapped in and adjusting the radio and such. Then I drive drive lightly until the gauge comes off the bottom. In really cold weather, the windshield probably needs scraping so that gets added to the idle time too.

 

[gathermewool]

My Toyotas show closed loop immediately (maybe because of heated O2 sensors?) and the xB occasionally throws an O2 code instantly on a cold start, which goes away & usually doesn't come back until extreme cold returns.

Interesting. How do you see that it’s closed-loop? In my older Subie (2008) I had a data logger that showed OL/CL. I have a BT dongle and the DashCmd app, but never thought to check if it can display that for my newer Subies.

 

[gathermewool]

Probably worked better as things wore out or got out of adjustment too.


I think they just need the O2 sensor to get warm enough, then they can be closed loop. Might be crazy rich but the computer will know exactly how rich it is.

Logically, I always assumed ECUs commander OL on cold start to light off the cat and to prevent erroneously adding bad data to fuel trims. Maybe there’s a quasi-closed loop, where the O2 sense is affecting short term fuel trims, but not changing the long term fuel trims.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Are there any modern cars that startup and run in close-loop immediately. As far as I know, cars operate in OL until the cat warms up

My Nissans it’s until the A/F sensors warm up. There right in the exhaust after the manifold so it takes seconds in my case.

Also even in open loop it’s pulling mix based on your latest fuel trims. Open loop for a properly working engine should still be awfully close to 14.7 :1. It’s still basing mix on MAF and historic trims.

Even if that were the argument - how would sitting in open loop harm your car while driving in open loop not? Like I said I can’t find actual test data one way or the other regarding needing to warm up - but as for sitting being more harmful than driving, I find that quite a stretch.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

I had a few manual choke vehicles. That and a stick shift can cripple and sideline a entire generation.

They’ll just run around in their golf carts

 

[demarpaint]

They’ll just run around in their golf carts

Electric golf carts.

 

[Cujet]

I warm up my NY Jaguar, as it won't drive properly until I do. At 225K miles, I'm thinking it's doing fine and I expect it to make 300K.

 

[mattd]

If it’s iced over or less than 25 degrees I use the PTO for high idle for warm up

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Electric golf carts.

Electric golf carts that catch fire.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Electric golf carts.

Yep.