Wow… Ford losing over $130k on every EV sold…

honeeagle said:
Oil was predicted to run out in 1899 about 10 years after it was first drilled ,and about every decade since.
Click to expand...
Yes, and it turns out, the USA seems to have more reserves than the entire world with the new methods of extraction.
Plus we are pumping more than most any other nation on planet earth\ and exporting it.
Oil rules, modern gasoline engines are very earth friendly for those earth types. Lithium is not the answer, something better will come along in the next 50 years.

"Meanwhile, the surprising reality is the United States is pumping oil at a blistering pace and is on track to produce more oil than any country has in history."
Source =
https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/19/business/us-production-oil-reserves-crude/index.html

( no politics)
 
Maybe this kind of story has some eye opening answers as to why FORD and GM keep prominsing to build new "green plants and business" in the USA and then pulling out over and over while trying to sell off what they started and eventually dropping so many plans for promised jobs in North America...? Does not have to become political. To me it is more criminal than political. If not please *DELETE*
https://www.deadlinedetroit.com/art..._granholm_for_wasting_billions_on_gm_and_ford
 
SammyChevelleTypeS3 said:
Maybe this kind of story has some eye opening answers as to why FORD and GM keep prominsing to build new "green plants and business" in the USA and then pulling out over and over while trying to sell off what they started and eventually dropping so many plans for promised jobs in North America...? Does not have to become political. To me it is more criminal than political. If not please *DELETE*
https://www.deadlinedetroit.com/art..._granholm_for_wasting_billions_on_gm_and_ford
Click to expand...
This would get too political. So I will just say this related to the company.

To set the record straight General Motors, only obligation is to the shareholders of the company. In fact, it’s the fiduciary responsibility to the shareholders of the company and no one else.
All of their decisions have kept them for 60 years as the number one seller of automobiles in the USA

We can pick a part every single major corporation in America with accountants to figure out taxpayer contributions to the companies. GM will not be the only one.

Look at it this way the only reason on planet Earth that Tesla after 15 years became profitable positive is because of the US taxpayers and regulations with carbon credits.
I’m not picking on Tesla. I’m just using it as an example. This is the business world. Corporations fiduciary responsibility is to the shareholders and no one else.

As far as who people vote for well, we know how that goes. The people in office are the responsibility of the voters who put them there.
 
alarmguy said:
This would get too political. So I will just say this related to the company.

To set the record straight General Motors, only obligation is to the shareholders of the company. In fact, it’s the fiduciary responsibility to the shareholders of the company and no one else.
All of their decisions have kept them for 60 years as the number one seller of automobiles in the USA

We can pick a part every single major corporation in America with accountants to figure out taxpayer contributions to the companies. GM will not be the only one.

Look at it this way the only reason on planet Earth that Tesla after 15 years became profitable positive is because of the US taxpayers and regulations with carbon credits.
I’m not picking on Tesla. I’m just using it as an example. This is the business world. Corporations fiduciary responsibility is to the shareholders and no one else.

As far as who people vote for well, we know how that goes. The people in office are the responsibility of the voters who put them there.
Click to expand...
General Motors needed a bailout in 2008 due to financial difficulties and the threat of bankruptcy. The bailout was part of a larger effort to prevent the collapse of the auto industry and protect jobs.
The U.S. Treasury invested $51 billion in GM through TARP, then recovered about $39B by selling its stake in GM.

AG, do you think GM would still be in business without the taxpayer bailout? My guess is, the company would have been split off into smaller companies, but regardless the loss of jobs would have been devastating to our economy. Too big to fail... I humbly suggest their decisions have needed a lot of help...
 
JeffKeryk said:
General Motors needed a bailout in 2008 due to financial difficulties and the threat of bankruptcy. The bailout was part of a larger effort to prevent the collapse of the auto industry and protect jobs.
The U.S. Treasury invested $51 billion in GM through TARP, then recovered about $39B by selling its stake in GM.

AG, do you think GM would still be in business without the taxpayer bailout? My guess is, the company would have been split off into smaller companies, but regardless the loss of jobs would have been devastating to our economy. Too big to fail... I humbly suggest their decisions have needed a lot of help...
Click to expand...
What difference does it make?
Is GM in business or not?
Are General Motors vehicles the number one selling vehicle in America?
Who cares what anyone’s guess is, that’s fortune telling one might say general motors might’ve been better off not getting a bail out. I thought the bail out was a loan?
If it was a loan, it’s not a bail out it is loan. Just like Tesla got or they may not have been around today. But again these things don’t bother me they’re bothering you. I’m not sure why, but I might be reading your post wrong. I certainly think you’re reading mine wrong.🙃

The bottom line is none of this matters.

General motors only obligation is to its shareholders. Like I mentioned in my previous post if you read it same goes for Tesla or any corporation for that matter.
Tesla benefited from carbon credits and continues to benefit today with a $7500 gift for each buyer.
I could be wrong, but I take your posts to be anti-GM for some reason and pro Tesla, even though Tesla gets just as many brakes as any other corporation in America. I’m still waiting to see what happens when the $7500 disappears if it ever disappears who knows. Even with it they are struggling right now in the USA.

And as far as Tesla, I’ll say the same thing, who cares? The voters let that happen Tesla and General Motors would be negligent in their fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders if they turned that money down.

The only ones who decide what companies get money are the voters
 
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*****Not political************* If deemed so, sorry, please just delete********* It is in regards to the automotive industry not political******
The ONLY reason any of that GM and FoMoCo and several other companies financial stuff matters to me is that we are all taxpayers (well a lot of us anyway:rolleyes:). Please......... we can not go there at all.

It just grinds my gears (and should to a lot of folks) the more I see all these companies who NEVER give any of us CONSUMERS a break as they certainly can charge a king's ransom on their products. They have the arrogance and gall to put manufacturer's list prices on some vehicles the last few years that when closely looked at, can cost near half the price of someone's medium priced homes. Yet they claim to keep needing Uncle Sam to fork over the buckets of money. Maybe we need a lot more oversight and follow up on this stuff.

I have read two to three articles on the US giving tons of cash to help new green energy + other companies lots of cash. The really sad part is the pattern these articles authors have noticed over several years and have been reporting on as of late.

Majority of the companies (over 25 according to the stories) who took millions of bucks from Uncle Sam since about 2008 seem to follow the same plan.
#1) Take all those dollars you can get thru loans, grants etc.... Many were not loans. YIKES!
#2) Wait a few months until all that money has vanished up in smoke, yet nothing is reported or required on progress at all to anyone.
#3) SURPRISE- Declare bakruptcy , lay off, pull the rug from the poor saps who took what was promised really good jobs + benefits, etc.
#4) Owners , top managers drop from sight, vanish into oblivion with the golden parachute retirements regardless of running companies into ground , out of business, closed , shutdwon. Actually some of these owners, managers resurface in charge of other companies.

Yet so far no one has been investigated, questioned or even asked a pretty serious, important question of them: "Uh you promised all these good jobs, investments in the communities and all you have done is layed off hundreds, even thousands of workers across the USA and we have zero to show for the massive financial "gifts in most cases" the taxpayers put up for you. Where is all that money now?
 
SammyChevelleTypeS3 said:
Maybe this kind of story has some eye opening answers as to why FORD and GM keep prominsing to build new "green plants and business" in the USA and then pulling out over and over while trying to sell off what they started and eventually dropping so many plans for promised jobs in North America...? Does not have to become political. To me it is more criminal than political. If not please *DELETE*
https://www.deadlinedetroit.com/art..._granholm_for_wasting_billions_on_gm_and_ford
Click to expand...

Ultium is a failed experiment.

It was supposed to
1. Bring industry standardized modules that were to be scalable to the application and volume of sales
2. Simplify battery assembly for insourcing to a union shop allowing custom batteries to be built either with or without specialized tooling depending on demand
3. Reduce cost and labor.

It more or less was a boondoggle that had much higher cost and labor while also being much lower packaged density.

Nice idea but it didn’t work, which is unfortunate for the aftermarket which could have them had standard replacement modules for worn out EVs
 
Rmay635703 said:
Ultium is a failed experiment.

It was supposed to
1. Bring industry standardized modules that were to be scalable to the application and volume of sales
2. Simplify battery assembly for insourcing to a union shop allowing custom batteries to be built either with or without specialized tooling depending on demand
3. Reduce cost and labor.

It more or less was a boondoggle that had much higher cost and labor while also being much lower packaged density.

Nice idea but it didn’t work, which is unfortunate for the aftermarket which could have them had standard replacement modules for worn out EVs
Click to expand...
Ultium honestly looks fine to me. GM is using it for everything, and although Acura stepped out, GM has plenty of vehicles for it. They scale between platforms. Can you explain how Ultium is a failure?

1740746606463.webp
 
I don’t feel bad for ford. My retired neighbor spent 100k on a truck that can’t pull his boat to Lake Erie without stopping for a charge. Now he’s stuck with it and no one will buy it. I do feel bad for my neighbor though, sort of.
 
Ws6 said:
Ultium honestly looks fine to me. GM is using it for everything, and although Acura stepped out, GM has plenty of vehicles for it. They scale between platforms. Can you explain how Ultium is a failure?

View attachment 265670
Click to expand...
Ultium ended up taking a very long time on the floor due to excess complexity resulting in very slow production for the first year of its existence while major glitches and bugs were worked out.

In terms of marketing ultium this and that won’t exist going forward and the battery designs will be done the old fashioned way as more or less bespoke .

Ultium ended up being simply a marketing term and had no affect on design , simplification or standardization.

Sure Ultium batteries work fine but there isn’t going to be the design standardization on future “Ultium “ products people were hoping could bring forward aftermarket battery support
 
Rmay635703 said:
Ultium ended up taking a very long time on the floor due to excess complexity resulting in very slow production for the first year of its existence while major glitches and bugs were worked out.

In terms of marketing ultium this and that won’t exist going forward and the battery designs will be done the old fashioned way as more or less bespoke .

Ultium ended up being simply a marketing term and had no affect on design , simplification or standardization.

Sure Ultium batteries work fine but there isn’t going to be the design standardization on future “Ultium “ products people were hoping could bring forward aftermarket battery support
Click to expand...
Ultium was always going to be internal, and it's great at that. Noone in their right mind would think any of these designs are anything but stop gaps until solid state exists at a good price point. It's just like an engine. Sure bmw and Toyota share the b58, and so forth, but every company makes their own, by and large. Same for batteries.
 
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