I'm surprised the loss per Ford EV produced is not more than $130K.
Wow… Ford losing over $130k on every EV sold…
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Certainly, but I believe the $13 number is not correct. No time for research right now but here's Fortune from Feb 7th:
Ford's 2023 EV deficit translated to a loss of roughly $28,000 on each battery powered model it sold, according to an analysis by Bloomberg Intelligence analyst Joel Levington, who noted those losses are “unsustainable.”
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Funny how the losses are larger than the vehicle’s original MSRP
You can usually take SOB stories as being exaggerated.
Fords regular F150’s and Rangers aren’t selling either, guessing ford is posturing to get bailout $$$
Ya.. I re-read the story and corrected my post. They're saying $132k/per vehicle. The reporter just took the loss and divided it by the number of EV's sold during the quarter.
Clearly some accounting going on (ex, accelerated depreciation?).
That still sounds like $132k for every single vehicle. I don't think that changes how that reads.
At least for now, that is the actual cost of the cars. You can’t sugarcoat losses like that for long without artificial injections of capital… and I’ll leave it at that.
$132k for each of the 10k vehicles is multiplication, bub. May want to revisit your comment about who can’t read.
$1.32 billion in losses, divided over 10k vehicles sold = $132k per vehicle. It may not be a true accounting of costs, but with corporate accounting practices, it’s a reality.
They are loosing money on a lot of things. Certain Rangers and F150s have spent a year on the lot as an example.
I won’t say creative accounting doesn’t occur but this is like saying Ford made money on every vehicle but lost $1.6b because they overpaid on a gold diamond encrusted toilet seat.
Dumping all losses that have absolutely nothing to do with producing a specific EV on just that is no different than saying if it weren’t for that one toilet seat we would have made money honest.
What if oil is running out?? The current resource replacement ratio for conventional resources is only 16 percent. Only 1 barrel out of every 6 consumed is being replaced with new resources. We have plenty of oil now because of pumping current wells so fast, however, those wells will dry out and there is no way to replace it like air and water.
What’s saving the world from oil decline was unconventional tight “fracked” oil, which accounted for 63% of total U.S. crude oil production in 2019 and 83% of global oil growth from 2009 to 2019. So it’s a big deal if we’ve reached the peak of fracked oil, because that is also the peak of both conventional and unconventional oil and the decline of all oil in the future.
Shale boss says US has passed peak oil | Financial Times: https://archive.ph/tjl6J
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yes, so many "what if's".
If that's how we decided what to prioritize and how to structure our lives, there would be no point in getting out of bed every morning.
My point is there's far too many items we depend on daily that depend on crude oil.
Even the almighty EV isn't immune to crude oil as many of it's plastics/resins/fluids used in manufacturing and maintenance depends on it.
As a result, we need not worry about it because there's little anyone in this thread can do to change things.
Goes to show, there is life after peak oil.
This matches what’s long been said, oil like won’t suddenly stop, but it may get ungodly difficult to extract and thus extremely expensive.
GM is in a totally different spot than Ford though. They predicted EV profitability in 2025, but recently revised to late 2024. Their ramp-up to battery production and EV dedicated architectures is largely behind them now. For Ford, it’s still coming up. Probably 2026 now until the first deliveries of the T3. They started all this about 5 years before Ford.
In the US, Ford’s EV lineup is still a mish-mash of different cells, motors and chassis’. No volume cost-savings on any of that. I believe the new Mach-e rear motor is now shared with the Lightning, so they’re getting there.
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The Costco (then $3.99) rotisserie chicken was not hatched overnight…
This is the initial R&D cost mostly, or early low volume cost before it scales bigger, etc. Without these early high cost per unit you will never get to the cheaper one later.
Prius and other hybrids are good examples. They lost a lot of money early on and now they are profitable and becomes standard for Camry.
Prius and other hybrids are good examples. They lost a lot of money early on and now they are profitable and becomes standard for Camry.
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Higher prices unlock new reservoirs of oil which were previously uneconomical to exploit.
Peak oil is a misunderstood term because oil supply is in equilibrium with price and demand. It’s not like one day we’ll run out. The price will just gradually go up.
My bad, my coffee did not kick in prior. I re-read the first portion, where it mentions a 1.3 billion total loss. That is a weird way to count it. How can you count investment into facilities, tooling, R&D, or whatever they may throw in there? Are they completely stopping the production and use of those new technologies/tools and facilities? I highly doubt it; it will continue to pay for itself in the future. It's like watching a stock lose value, but until you sell it, it is not a loss; in the end, you may get gains and profit...
The price will eventually rise to reflect the new normal with regards to supply.
Sure, but you still gotta sell product. And Ford isn't. At least Tesla always sold well, as did the Bolt.
Agreed. Just the same, as others have said, it would be nice if car companies broke out EV vs ICE numbers. I would also like to see trucks, etc broke out so we had some clarity as to how the business is doing. You can bet the executives discuss this every day.
That is a fair point.
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