Would M1 EP stand up to 7500 miles of severe service?

[jimbrewer]

No.

I disagree with some of my esteemed colleagues above. Oil becomes contaminated with soot, fuel, evaporated fuel by products, combustion by products, wear particulates and more. The oil change is the only solution to remove the above contaminates.

There is a reason so many timing and balancer chains are failing now. It's not due to poor oil quality, it's due to operating for extended periods of time with contaminated oil. Hyundai engines are chief among the examples.

You are in effect arguing for using the cheapest oil that meets spec for short intervals. Definitely a minority view.

There absolutely is a good correlation between wear metals and wear rates. Otherwise there’s not much reason to do a UOA.

 

[HyundaiAbuser]

Because that is what I choose by seeing what I have seen owning 2 Hyundai's. If his name wasn't HyundaiAbuser I would say 7,500. Seems like he may do some sport driving as he said. Those are my numbers, you can have your own opinion, pick your #s.

I run Red Line Performance Euro and since it has helped my fuel dilution I now dump at 4,000 miles in winter. I have yet to see my UOA on my through the winter oil change where ALL my fuel dilution is gone, and I am back to the oil level at the center of the full dot. When I was running Mobil 1 5w-30 ESP I would have a small amount of fuel dilution oil rise even in summer and ESP would never pull back to the original level I installed fresh oil like the Redline has. That being said I am on boost more then most and my motor gets high street sport use. Lets just say when I get to work in the morning I have to drive around the parking lot a couple times a week for a turbo cool down to reduce any coking from a HOT turbo. So I myself put my oil through it's paces. Plus, I ALWAYS do 3 minute warm ups even in summer to expand my pistons as I have seen some Hyundai pistons have some rocking wear.

thats my name sir.

I support shorter intervals on gdi hyundai engines, but if almost all of this is at operating temperature I wouldn't be quite as stringent.

 

[NH73]

Depends, dealerships seem to go with 10k for toyota/lexus. The real answer it
depends on operating conditions.

Yes, I have noticed that. My local dealer seems to staunchly stick by what the maintenance manual says. Generally, the dealer does not know how the vehicle is being used, to be able to advice which schedule to follow. Likewise, many owners don't read the manual either. At the end of the day, the mechanic who sees these vehicles that should had severe service done on the, and didn't, is now tell people that they shouldn't be following the longer OCI.

 

[ejes]

My engine uses no oil and runs just as good as when I bought it at 133k. I cannot see why it wouldn't go another 100k without problems.

I just might if you take care of it; I'm sure there are some examples of them out there.

 

[ejes]

Regarding the part of the statement that Hyundai uses lesser quality metals and materials, does the reviewer have proof of this or are they just spouting inflammatory poppycock?

The "reviewer" does his own research and doesn't fee the need to tell others how to use Google.

 

[doublebase]

You are in effect arguing for using the cheapest oil that meets spec for short intervals. Definitely a minority view.

There absolutely is a good correlation between wear metals and wear rates. Otherwise there’s not much reason to do a UOA.

Now when you say "definitely a minority view", are you referring to on this site? I think there was a thread on that subject maybe a month or so ago (would you prefer shorter intervals on cheaper oil or longer intervals on high end oil?) and I might be mistaken, but I think the vast majority chose shorter intervals. Either way, I guess it doesn't fit the narrative of what you're saying 100%, but I think if you're assuming most would prefer longer intervals on an extended performance oil vs short intervals on say, a super tech...I think you'll be surprised at the answer.

 

[PWMDMD]

The Toyota 10K OCI is for normal driving conditions. If you driving highway, you can even do 15K probably.
The severe service, is a different story, and if you want to keep your car for long time, even on Toyota 10K is way too long for severe service.

On the flip side they are also NOT seeing these problems with the vehicles on the shorter oil change intervals, but they are seeing them fail on the higher change intervals. Then they give their advice. Because they are the ones seeing it on a daily basis...seeing why it happens, seeing others not experiencing it...seeing the trends and correlations, will always lead a tech to say, "don't do that". It's the way it is.

It's like a stock broker telling you not to buy in a certain sector because he's seen people lose there (yet plenty do well in that sector). Or a doctor telling you not to eat high cholesterol/saturated fat foods because they can lead to heart attacks - because that's what he sees and that's the industry trend - yet others won't have heart attacks, many actually, or they'll be a new study saying cholesterol won't give you a heart attack (and five years later that's proven wrong). People in industry give advice off what they see, what they experience, what the trends are, what is happening now enough times to say...ok, there is something here with THIS. Same for guys who install widows, vinyl siding, hot water tanks, cook, clean, bake, paint, cut hair, grow plants, cut grass, sell watches, insurance. They're going to tell you what is best, a lot of times we won't take their advice and a lot of times it doesn't matter because we won't keep whatever it is long enough or use it to the extremes they consider "normal". And yet there are times we should have taken their advice (I've learned that too). Lol.

Yes, I trained at a children's hospital and if I didn't already know the stats based on my daily experience I would've told you 85% of all children have special health care needs. The sickest and most severe cases get funneled there and it does not represent what is going on in reality. This happens in lots of fields so sure mechanics tend to see many more cars with problems than cars without problems and it's easy to think a particular issue is widespread when it's not.

 

[doublebase]

Yes, I trained at a children's hospital and if I didn't already know the stats based on my daily experience I would've told you 85% of all children have special health care needs. The sickest and most severe cases get funneled there and it does not represent what is going on in reality. This happens in lots of fields so sure mechanics tend to see many more cars with problems than cars without problems and it's easy to think a particular issue is widespread when it's not.

Well, I don't think any mechanic is telling anyone that 85% (or any figure) of vehicles are going to blow up because you extend your oil change intervals, but they are going to tell you that shortening is going to keep it from happening. And perhaps you miss read my point, I mentioned they see WHY and WHICH cars are having FEWER engine related issues (chains, consumption, sludge, bearing failure, etc, etc) and they have a direct correlation to go along with it. In your profession do you have any correlation to allude to prevention of special health care needs of children? Because in many industries there are prevention measures, in yours there really isn't. Am I wrong? You're talking about kids. Kids that are born with something?

 

[tolian21]

Modern engines are not the same quality as they used to be, market is moving towards cheaper components that are not designed to last as they think you will get a new car in 8-10 years. The marketing pressure for logger OCIs is there.
For us DIYers its really cheap insurance to change oil sooner for severe operation.

 

[PWMDMD]

Well, I don't think any mechanic is telling anyone that 85% (or any figure) of vehicles are going to blow up because you extend your oil change intervals, but they are going to tell you that shortening is going to keep it from happening. And perhaps you miss read my point, I mentioned they see WHY and WHICH cars are having FEWER engine related issues (chains, consumption, sludge, bearing failure, etc, etc) and they have a direct correlation to go along with it. In your profession do you have any correlation to allude to prevention of special health care needs of children? Because in many industries there are prevention measures, in yours there really isn't. Am I wrong? You're talking about kids. Kids that are born with something?

No, I get your point. I'm questioning, and I really do not know the answer, how much of an issue 10K mile OCIs really represent even if mechanics are recommending shorter intervals based on their observations? Could it be that mechanics, by the nature of their work, see a disproportionately high number of problem cars (perhaps ones that truly belong in the severe use category) with OCI-related issues, which in turn skews their perception of the magnitude of the problem, when in reality there are a far greater number of cars doing 10K OCIs just fine that they never see because they are not having problems?

My point was it is sometimes hard to really know the magnitude of a problem when you are having a high number of those problems funneled to you. As I said, I'm just asking the question and I really have no idea what the answer is but I don't know of Toyota and Lexus vehicles having many issues related to the 10K OCI. For the 150K miles I'll keep my Tundra and Rx 350, I have no doubt they will be fine with 10K intervals but they have really easy lives.

 

[bullwinkle]

A couple (or even ONE) of a cheap UOA will tell you what you need to know-the xB in my sig gets a lot of short trips & pushed fairly hard regularly, and UOA showed M1EP 5W30 could handle 10K easily, so it's been getting that ever since. I guarantee whatever you're doing to that Accent is easier on it than my MIL's old Cavalier she used to drive to work... A QUARTER MILE EACH WAY! It NEVER made operating temperature, and munched off the locating pin on the camshaft multiple times, in addition to needing a full catback exhaust every 18 months or so! That's severe service!

 

[tolian21]

In

. As I said, I'm just asking the question and I really have no idea what the answer is but I don't know of Toyota and Lexus vehicles having many issues related to the 10L OCI. For the 150K miles I'll keep my Tundra and Rx 350, I have no doubt they will be fine with 10K intervals but they have really easy lives.

In 2004 toyota reduced OCI from 7500 to 5000 because it found that more drivers ran their vehicles under severe stop-and-start and short trip conditions that cause oil to deteriorate more quickly.

all past history.... but you never know whats coming

 

[JohnnyJohnson]

In

In 2004 toyota reduced OCI from 7500 to 5000 because it found that more drivers ran their vehicles under severe stop-and-start and short trip conditions that cause oil to deteriorate more quickly.

all past history.... but you never know whats coming

Tolian21 how many miles on the Toyota? What is your oil consumption during your OCI?

 

[tolian21]

Tolian21 how many miles on the Toyota? What is your oil consumption during your OCI?

I dont 2004 toyota, but familiar with issues they had back in the day with sludge and them taking steps to reduce OCI and use synthetic oils

 

[edyvw]

I drive in Boston a lot which is basically an extreme case of severe service. Lately I've been dumping my oil at about 3500-4000k and it's plenty black and dirty at this point. Hyundai severe service recommendation is 3750, would EP more than likely hold up to 7500? I don't plan on getting a UOA.

What makes Boston driving severe service?

 

[doublebase]

What makes Boston driving severe service?

Picture hell...then put it in a blender on high speed and punch yourself in the face while doing it. Then poor the blended hell into a tall glass and drink. That’s Boston driving.

No, honestly it’s the worst driving you can do...worse than NY city in my opinion. Roundabouts, construction, detours, stop and go. Heavy acceleration just to get in position or else you won’t make your turn or exit. I’ve had cars just rub right up against me. You fight for every inch. Your car is pushed hard. Your brakes are smoking hot. If you don’t drive like that? Like I said, you‘ll mis your turn or exit and then you’ll be stuck driving through hell for miles and miles just to get back to the spot you missed. I hate it. Throw in five months of horrible winters with bellow freezing weather, salt, ice, snow. Traffic traffic traffic.

 

[PimTac]

Modern engines are not the same quality as they used to be, market is moving towards cheaper components that are not designed to last as they think you will get a new car in 8-10 years. The marketing pressure for logger OCIs is there.
For us DIYers its really cheap insurance to change oil sooner for severe operation.

Yet we have modern engines that are running hundreds of thousands of miles. It’s usually the car body that goes first.

Older engines had plenty of issues too.

 

[2EHA]

Picture hell...then put it in a blender on high speed and punch yourself in the face while doing it. Then poor the blended hell into a tall glass and drink. That’s Boston driving.

No, honestly it’s the worst driving you can do...worse than NY city in my opinion.

100% accurate

the first week i started driving for a car hauling company i got sent to boston.

 

[PWMDMD]

100% accurate

the first week i started driving for a car hauling company i got sent to boston.

As someone who grew up driving the mean streets of NYC and now lives outside Boston and drives in Boston frequently...it's not that bad.

 

[Accent Abuser]

Picture hell...then put it in a blender on high speed and punch yourself in the face while doing it. Then poor the blended hell into a tall glass and drink. That’s Boston driving.

No, honestly it’s the worst driving you can do...worse than NY city in my opinion. Roundabouts, construction, detours, stop and go. Heavy acceleration just to get in position or else you won’t make your turn or exit. I’ve had cars just rub right up against me. You fight for every inch. Your car is pushed hard. Your brakes are smoking hot. If you don’t drive like that? Like I said, you‘ll mis your turn or exit and then you’ll be stuck driving through hell for miles and miles just to get back to the spot you missed. I hate it. Throw in five months of horrible winters with bellow freezing weather, salt, ice, snow. Traffic traffic traffic.

Oh yes and don't forget the road layout is beyond idiotic. Even with a GPS and experience I make at least two wrong turns a day. Smoking brakes is no understatement. I've had several instances of loud grinding and squealing on brand new pads and rotors because the pads and rotors and different materials in them got so hot they expanded unevenly and made a horrendous racket.