Ray H - Fast Fours & Rotaries is an Oz mag and interesting that BP Visco 5000 5W40 came 2nd. Timken tested twice lately and pretty awesome stuff. Not expensive either. Is BP stuff available in the US or Canada?
woohoo! $60/quart!
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Amsoil also had the BP 5000 in some tests on their website and it came second (of course to their oil!).
Tried it myself here and though it was ok. Have tried some more expensive stuff since(Motul 6100 & 300v). Probably go back. Still have it in one vehicle.
Only issue is that it is only sold at BP stations, hence no discounting. And only in 4L & 1L containers. Of course one vehicle needs 4.5 Lts. Bit expensive in 1L lots.
Would like to see a 5w-30 grade although no indication that BP is bringing that out.
[ June 02, 2003, 04:19 AM: Message edited by: theguru ]
Tried it myself here and though it was ok. Have tried some more expensive stuff since(Motul 6100 & 300v). Probably go back. Still have it in one vehicle.
Only issue is that it is only sold at BP stations, hence no discounting. And only in 4L & 1L containers. Of course one vehicle needs 4.5 Lts. Bit expensive in 1L lots.
Would like to see a 5w-30 grade although no indication that BP is bringing that out.
[ June 02, 2003, 04:19 AM: Message edited by: theguru ]
Just because some stupid people buy BMW doesn't mean they aren't worth the money. I would buy a newer one if I had the money. Though I actually still prefer my old E30 3series over the E36. Haven't driven the E46 yet. I remember Pontiac saying the GTP was targeting the 3series. What a joke. My car rapes it in the twisities. My Dad even commented, when I was running near the limit through his back roads in our '01 GTP, that it sure isn't anything like your car(my 89 325is). Ain't that the truth. That car truely is crap in the turns. And I remember him making comments similar to yours years ago about BMW. Then I bought my car and I tore it up in the back roads while he was craping his pants and now he can't stop saying good things about BMW. It's about more than simple raw speed though(which it has also). If it has to be explained you wouldn't understand.quote:
Originally posted by buster:
That is the truth. I love people who buy BMWs just because they are BMWs. They usually don't know anything about cars but they want it for the status value.
BMW worth the money? **** yes!
BMW loves 'em, too!
[ June 02, 2003, 12:17 PM: Message edited by: Ray H ]
Ferrari schmarri....just get a Corvette! At a fraction of the cost of the Enzo it will give the Enzo a run for it's $$$ and beat most other Ferrari's! The Corvette has the potential beat any car, exotic or not at any price range, plus it is an American car!
Nice quote...funny thing is I think this is what the Communists said about America in the first place!!
Although true, never underestimate the power of free trade, innovation and of course, capitalism to drive the market...the market determines the prices...if you can come out with a better product at less cost....go for it! Sell to whomever you can, dumb or smart....I never saw an I.Q. test on any invoice I ever got!
Although true, never underestimate the power of free trade, innovation and of course, capitalism to drive the market...the market determines the prices...if you can come out with a better product at less cost....go for it! Sell to whomever you can, dumb or smart....I never saw an I.Q. test on any invoice I ever got!
Patman
Staff member
Do you think Ferrari honestly cares how long their engines last? I bet that there aren't more than a handful of Ferraris in North America with over 50,000 miles on them.
True, however things even at Ferrari have changed. NO more taking the engine out in order to do a tune-up....or $10k timing belt changes ever 25k km. Maintenance is almost down to normal car levels...every 12k mi. thesedays...
Ferrari's, although not at German levels of engineering prowess, have artfull craftmanship that requires, like a fine-tuned instrument constant and proper maintenance in order to keep making beautiful music.
Ferrari's, although not at German levels of engineering prowess, have artfull craftmanship that requires, like a fine-tuned instrument constant and proper maintenance in order to keep making beautiful music.
For those commenting on people having more $$$ than brains... I don't think you have the imagination to comprehend on what kind of WEALTH it takes to buy and maintain a Ferrari Enzo or any other super exotic car for that matter.
These people couldn't care less if the oil was $100/L.. they probably make that much per minute.. whatever..
Let's put it this way, if you had 100 million dollars, wouldn't you like to own a Ferrari? Would you care about the cost of the oil? We know they are definitely overpaying but you need to see it from their perspective.. It's a different world, so let's stop with the envious comments
and stick to the oil talk.
It's interesting how the 10w60 is recommened in the Ferrari and M3.. Anyone know what some other supercars require? 911 Twin Turbo, etc..
These people couldn't care less if the oil was $100/L.. they probably make that much per minute.. whatever..
Let's put it this way, if you had 100 million dollars, wouldn't you like to own a Ferrari? Would you care about the cost of the oil? We know they are definitely overpaying but you need to see it from their perspective.. It's a different world, so let's stop with the envious comments
It's interesting how the 10w60 is recommened in the Ferrari and M3.. Anyone know what some other supercars require? 911 Twin Turbo, etc..
Gimme a $15,000-$35,000 Japanese performance car anyday. I'll wring the supreme pi$$ out of it for years and sell it for half of what I paid for it ... and run it on $3 per quart Schaeffer oil the whole time.
Splurge?
OK, Red Line oil and premium fuel it is.
I do agree with Jason, like many good, expensive things, BMW has attracted a lot of rich, trashy customers who don't know squat about cars. Oh well.
As long as they don't compromise their designs to accomodate these embarrasing, shallow people, that's OK. Some people think that during the 80s, Porsche made their cars easier to drive to please the lawyers and doctors (and their mistresses) who were buying their cars more frequently than hard core driving enhusiasts. I don't know if that's the case, however.
I can say that even if I won $10million in a lottery, I doubt I'd buy a Ferrari these days. You have to be so rich, you have to be amused at the fact that someone is gouging you to the tune of several thousand dollars every year.
Perhaps 'Kule can whip us up a theoretical batch of super-duper oil and give us a estimate of its cost. The best possible base oil, additives, etc ... I can see no way there could be $60 worth of value in a quart of that oil ... even assuming a 100% dealer mark-up. My guess it's about as expensive as Red Line to produce so any cost above $10-$12 per square foot is highway robbery.
--- Bror Jace
Splurge?
I do agree with Jason, like many good, expensive things, BMW has attracted a lot of rich, trashy customers who don't know squat about cars. Oh well.
As long as they don't compromise their designs to accomodate these embarrasing, shallow people, that's OK. Some people think that during the 80s, Porsche made their cars easier to drive to please the lawyers and doctors (and their mistresses) who were buying their cars more frequently than hard core driving enhusiasts. I don't know if that's the case, however.
I can say that even if I won $10million in a lottery, I doubt I'd buy a Ferrari these days. You have to be so rich, you have to be amused at the fact that someone is gouging you to the tune of several thousand dollars every year.
Perhaps 'Kule can whip us up a theoretical batch of super-duper oil and give us a estimate of its cost. The best possible base oil, additives, etc ... I can see no way there could be $60 worth of value in a quart of that oil ... even assuming a 100% dealer mark-up. My guess it's about as expensive as Red Line to produce so any cost above $10-$12 per square foot is highway robbery.
--- Bror Jace
Well, you'll always have the wrong people buying the wrong cars out there...however, I agree that if you had $10 million....trust me, you wouldn't be interested in that $15-30k boy racer grocery getter..that's for sure. Nor would you even think of a plastic glued together vette...unless is was a sideline part of your collection....but, to each his/her own. I agree...let's get back to oil.
Of course it's highway robbery at $60/L.. but like I said, if you're Michael Eisner and you cash out 50 million dollars in Disney stock options do you care?
Think REALLY LARGE... haha..
It's all about persepective.. I bet to a lot of low income people that have run Walmart 10w30 in their car for 200,000kms without any oil related issues, synthetic oil and used oil analysis seems like a frivolous and unnecessary expense right?
It's all about persepective.. I bet to a lot of low income people that have run Walmart 10w30 in their car for 200,000kms without any oil related issues, synthetic oil and used oil analysis seems like a frivolous and unnecessary expense right?
Hmmm...Ferrari durability. That's an oxymoron if I ever heard one.
Dr. T, the day I win $10M+ in a lottery is the day I go and buy a Honda S2000. It might not stay stock for long and I'd probably augment my stable with other toys ... but a $100,000+ Ferrari (or Ruf Porsche, AMG 'Cedes, etc ...) would still not be on the menu.
It's the principle and not all rich people spend money frivolously ... that's how some people get rich. Look at what George Lucas wears ... the same 2 two or three flannel shirts over and over and over again.
"Hmmm...Ferrari durability. That's an oxymoron if I ever heard one."
That wasn't always the case ... and if you watch Formula One these days, they are one of the most durable cars in the series, they almost always finish ... often in 1st place.
--- Bror Jace
It's the principle and not all rich people spend money frivolously ... that's how some people get rich. Look at what George Lucas wears ... the same 2 two or three flannel shirts over and over and over again.
"Hmmm...Ferrari durability. That's an oxymoron if I ever heard one."
That wasn't always the case ... and if you watch Formula One these days, they are one of the most durable cars in the series, they almost always finish ... often in 1st place.
--- Bror Jace
Hi,
some sensibility should reside here - surely.
At 64, an Auto Engineer trained in the 50's, I enjoy my cars for pleasure - and their engineering! I have looked at my cars this way since I started driving in 1954!
Porsche have long filled with Mobil 1.
In 1992 they started using 5w-40 with 20000km drains. They factory fill with 0w-40 today with the same drain period
The have always insisted on a "C" rating on the oil as well - since I started working with them in Copenhagen, Denmark in the early 1960's at least!
Most Porsche owners are very passionate about their oils too - believe it!
I love American cars too and own and operate a fleet of IVECO ( Navistar ) heavy trucks with Detroit engines
I don't give a rats arse what people think about what I drive - thats my choice!
Regards
Doug Hillary
Airlie Beach - Tropical North Queensland - Australia
MY02 Subaru Outback 2.5 manual (Mobil Delvac 1)
MY98 BMW Z3 2.8 manual (Mobil 1 0w-40)
MY89 Porsche 928S4 auto (Shell Helix Ultra 15w-50)
MY01 VW Golf manual (Mobil 1 0w-40)
some sensibility should reside here - surely.
At 64, an Auto Engineer trained in the 50's, I enjoy my cars for pleasure - and their engineering! I have looked at my cars this way since I started driving in 1954!
Porsche have long filled with Mobil 1.
In 1992 they started using 5w-40 with 20000km drains. They factory fill with 0w-40 today with the same drain period
The have always insisted on a "C" rating on the oil as well - since I started working with them in Copenhagen, Denmark in the early 1960's at least!
Most Porsche owners are very passionate about their oils too - believe it!
I love American cars too and own and operate a fleet of IVECO ( Navistar ) heavy trucks with Detroit engines
I don't give a rats arse what people think about what I drive - thats my choice!
Regards
Doug Hillary
Airlie Beach - Tropical North Queensland - Australia
MY02 Subaru Outback 2.5 manual (Mobil Delvac 1)
MY98 BMW Z3 2.8 manual (Mobil 1 0w-40)
MY89 Porsche 928S4 auto (Shell Helix Ultra 15w-50)
MY01 VW Golf manual (Mobil 1 0w-40)
The people who buy these types of cars do not worry about money, other than how to spend it on something that noone else has. Its about being exclusive. When driving one of these down the road, you are guarranteed not to see another one and just about everyone WILL notice you.
Probably a lot of you remember the Road & Track(?) that had the 959, F40, and McClaren F1 on the cover. Well, the EXTACT SAME metallic orange F1 (owner lives/has a house here in Scottsdale)pulled onto the front drive of the resort where I work and parked up front (cars like this ALWAYS stay up front
). News of the car being there went all over the resort and eyeballs popped and jaws dropped. (I admit I had to wipe a bit of drool away
, its ONLY the fastest production car ever built.)
This does not happen with Vettes, BMWs, MBs, Vipers, etc. They are not part of the "untouchables", the extreme fanasty cars, the ones you might own and race across the US for fun if you had "$10 billion!!!!" (said with pinky in mouth
) because you want to.
I think vanity has some part to play in this, too.
Me, I'm just glad there are people out there making these types of cars so I can drool over the specs and see them every once and a while on SPEED Channel burning rubber and being tossed around a track somewhere. My $.02.
Probably a lot of you remember the Road & Track(?) that had the 959, F40, and McClaren F1 on the cover. Well, the EXTACT SAME metallic orange F1 (owner lives/has a house here in Scottsdale)pulled onto the front drive of the resort where I work and parked up front (cars like this ALWAYS stay up front
This does not happen with Vettes, BMWs, MBs, Vipers, etc. They are not part of the "untouchables", the extreme fanasty cars, the ones you might own and race across the US for fun if you had "$10 billion!!!!" (said with pinky in mouth
I think vanity has some part to play in this, too.
Me, I'm just glad there are people out there making these types of cars so I can drool over the specs and see them every once and a while on SPEED Channel burning rubber and being tossed around a track somewhere. My $.02.
theguru - I have Motul Synergie 6100 5W40 in my Mazda turbo but it's now an obsolete oil (replaced by 8100 X-cess 5W40). BP distributors sell 20 litre drum Visco 5000 for $129 a pretty good price IMO.
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