Wood selection for interior project

[Capt W]

I'm going to replace an old and oversized shelving unit, which is about 7 feet tall by 24" deep. It was great in our last house, which was pretty large, but is now too often in the way in our much smaller 1400 sq. ft. home.

The plan is to create a simple floor-to-ceiling frame (likely a combo of 2x4s and 2x2s) and lay in a series of laminated or MDF pre-finished shelving boards. The whole unit will be about a foot deep and approximately 4 feet wide and 7 feet high. Once I build the frame I'll completely finish it with all the required filing/sanding/priming/painting before placing the shelves.

It's an easy enough project I've done many times...in my garages. I've never made something like this for inside the house.

My only question deals with wood selection. I'm not familiar enough with wood grading and so forth. I obviously need something that won't twist up like a Mister Salty pretzel, but will finish nicely. A great deal of the big-box wood looks like crap.

Is it a matter of staying with pine and just finding the nicest possible pieces? FWIW it's very humid in this part of South Texas, but the A/C is on about 8-9 months out of the year. I also have places like Sutherland's and McCoy's nearby; I just don't know enough about wood.

Thanks for any help!

 

[shortyb]

If looking for a solid wood for the shelves, I'd look at poplar or birch. Cabinet can be MDF, but I'd rather use something a tad stronger and resistant to sag/twist etc. For that I might look at a birch or maple plywood and finish the edges.

 

[Astro14]

In general, the big box stores have terrible wood selection, pricing, and availability. What you’re seeing there is suitable for framing a house, but not building the kind of cabinetry that you’re talking about.

Now, if you carefully select some kiln dried, two by fours that are straight, no bow, no cupping, no wane, you can make some decent shelving out of them.

In general, I would not use plywood to span a shelf width of more than about 24 inches. MDF is even worse. MDF is smooth, but heavy, and structurally weak.

So, if you want 4 foot wide shelving, and you don’t want support structure mid span, here’s what I would do:

Make your shelves out of plywood, make them a whisker under 16 inches deep, and you can get six shelves of four foot span out of a single sheet of plywood.

Take three 2 x 4, Rip lengthwise. You’ll end up with wood an inch and a half wide and just a hair under an inch and 3/4 deep. Cut to 4 foot lengths.

Now, attach, using wood glue, like Titebond, with some finish screw (2”) along the long ends your shelves - what you’re doing is using the thickness of that 2 x 4 to add strength across that 4 foot span. The combination of plywood and that 1/2 of a 2 x 4, will be rigid enough to carry a load across that span.

You can screw the back end of your shelves directly into the studs. Go through the railing made by the 2x4. Use structural screws for this, don’t use cheap drywall screws.

On the front, you can use two by fours to be the “posts”, and screw straight through those two by fours into your shelf railings. You could use 2 x 2 as well, because the wood is plenty strong in compression for the load. Again, attach with structural screws. Whatever size post you use, I would cut interior posts, too. A 2 x 2, really, a length of your ripped 2 x 4, that just fits between the plywood top of the shelf below and the rail of the shelf above. In addition to the vertical post, those interior posts are what’s gonna carry the load.

I’ve built several garage, and basement, shelving units like this. I find that the 16 inches deep is a very convenient depth. It allows you to put cases of oil, for example, side by side.

Here is one example. On the right hand side. I just used those “interior posts” I was talking about. You can see the cross-section of the shelves themselves. Those shelves happen to be 4 feet wide, 16 inches deep.

 

[Astro14]

Now, if you want to do this inside your house, and you want it to look nice, that is a different matter.

I would skip the big box stores.

I would find a local lumber yard. Straight grained Fir is an inexpensive choice with good strength. Anything else gets very costly very quickly. Poplar is relatively lightweight, takes a stain well, gets a bit fuzzy when you mill it, but can be sanded smooth.

Again, MDF, is fine for cabinet sides, facing, that sort of thing, but it’s really terrible structurally. Plywood is better structurally, but anything over about 24 inches for a plywood shelf and it starts to sag, particularly if you put things like cans or books on it.

The same reinforcement applies.

Now, these are the bookshelves that I built to make a library in our old house. The shelves are three-quarter inch poplar plywood. The nosing on the shelves is three-quarter inch poplar, with a decorative edge, routed into it. Sanded smooth and stained, it looks exactly like cherry. This is how they look before I attached the face frame. You can see that the case was simply three-quarter inch plywood. Again, that poplar, carefully stained, looks exactly like cherry at less than half the price.

One more note on building cases that size out of plywood. You don’t want adjustable shelves all the way up and down. The plywood can simply flex too much in the middle. So make the middle shelf permanently attached, again I used biscuits, so that there is some rigidity given to the sides of the plywood case. I bolted the three cases together once they were installed using cabinet bolts.

The nosing on the shelves helps that three-quarter inch plywood carry the load of all the books. I used a biscuit joiner to biscuit the nosing into the shelves so that they were strong.

 

[Astro14]

Close up of the poplar shelves - showing the nosing. Again, a 3/4 by 1 1/2” poplar board adds great stiffness to the plywood shelf, and with a decorative edge, it looks attractive.

 

[BISCUT]

If you want to do this on a tight dollar, go with doug fir 2x4's and a 3/4 birch or similar (pine can work fine for your width of 12". Steer clear of kiln dried spruce. That wood twists and turns and is basically a match stick.

Just me, I think built-ins are worth the addes cost and steps to complete.

 

[Astro14]

If you’re going to paint, birch or poplar plywood is nice and smooth. Poplar trim takes paint well, too. Just be certain to sand it well - start with 120, then 150, finish up to 180 or 220 for paint.

 

[zzyzzx]

I would just use IKEA Ivar shelves. I buy them unfinished and finish them myself. Very sturdy and versatile, and made with furniture grade pine.

 

[shortyb]

Close up of the poplar shelves - showing the nosing. Again, a 3/4 by 1 1/2” poplar board adds great stiffness to the plywood shelf, and with a decorative edge, it looks attractive.

View attachment 347680

Beautiful work. Proves you can do a VERY nice job using modest wood if you take the time and do it right.

What did you finish these with? The pre-stain conditioner? I'm taking a stab here and gonna guess Varathane or a General Finishes gel.

 

[Astro14]

Beautiful work. Proves you can do a VERY nice job using modest wood if you take the time and do it right.

What did you finish these with? The pre-stain conditioner? I'm taking a stab here and gonna guess Varathane or a General Finishes gel.

I used General Finishes - both the stain and the clear. Spray on for both. Bought at a local Woodcraft.

The spray on stain helps ensure even coverage.

Poplar can absorb unevenly, so, if you don’t spray, I would recommend a stain conditioner

 

[spasm3]

I used General Finishes - both the stain and the clear. Spray on for both. Bought at a local Woodcraft.

The spray on stain helps ensure even coverage.

Poplar can absorb unevenly, so, if you don’t spray, I would recommend a stain conditioner

I just bought a can of General Finishes satin , for an interior Anderson door. I've stained it, will probably coat it Thursday depending on weather, as I have to take the doors apart.

 

[spasm3]

.

 

[Astro14]

Since my bookshelf project was about 10 years ago, I’m not familiar with that particular product from general finishes. Mine was just a regular spray polyurethane.

But it looks easy to apply. Decades ago, I was a big fan of Bartley* finishes. They might still be around. They might not. But they were a wipe on, wipe off product. Practically full proof.

One of the advantages of Bartley‘s finish is that it was a gel. It wasn’t liquid. Lots of fairly porous woods, like pine, or poplar, absorb stain unevenly. One way to manage that isto apply a “stain conditioner“ which is essentially thinned linseed oil that gets soaked up by the more porous sections of your workpiece, and minimize a stain penetration there for a more even finish.

The other, less common approach, is to use a finish that is itself, fairly thick and difficult for the wood to absorb. Enter the Bartley gel finish. Even in the hands of an amateur, as I was back then, the Bartley produced nice colors with very even stain, absorption, even in difficult woods. In fact, one of the drawbacks of the Bartley gel finish was on highly figured woods like tiger maple. You actually want to highlight the grain on a tiger maple and the Bartley hid the grain because of its absorption characteristics.

Back on topic - It appears that this particular general finishes product is very similar. Wipe it on thoroughly, tip off the excess,

https://generalfinishes.com/wood-finishes-retail/oil-based-topcoats/arm-r-seal-oil-based-topcoat



* Bartley was a company based in Maryland that sold furniture kits. They did all of the complex machining, dovetails, curved legs, etc. And then the wood was packaged up and sent to you, where you would assemble it and finish it. Most of the labor is in the sanding and finishing anyway, so it was a great way to get some really nice furniture for a fairly inexpensive price if you were willing to put in the work.

Edit: it appears that the company that purchased Bartley is still in business. They don’t have all of Bartley‘s former projects available, but they do have some of the classics, with prices that are breathtaking compared with what I paid years ago. And yes, Bartley gel finishes are still available.

https://baynebox.com/

 

[shortyb]

Ah, Bartley. Takes me way back to when I apprenticed under a Master Cabinetmaker after school and during the summers when I was 15-18. He would take me to their supply house just south of Baltimore to pick up cases of stains and sealers, loved the smell. We would always take a peek into the shop and watch the folks making furniture pieces. The craftsmanship was exceptional.

I do remember when the gel formulas came out. Mr. Vernon Payne (my mentor) would use quite a bit of poplar or birch plywood for a good portion of his work and always had to pre-condition the wood to assure an even finish. When the gels came out, he could use those straight away and get a very uniform finish. Haven't seen a can of that for quite some time. BIG fan of General Finishes as it always gives superb results, and their gel rivals the Bartley. Haven't used any of their spray products, but have a secret way of making their liquid poly look like glass. Good stuff.

 

[shortyb]

I just bought a can of General Finishes satin , for an interior Anderson door. I've stained it, will probably coat it Thursday depending on weather, as I have to take the doors apart.

View attachment 347724View attachment 347728View attachment 347726

Nice color, what are you sealing it with?

 

[Pablo]

I like Cherry

It is not super expensive and looks nice. Can be stained all the way to walnut tones but care needed to prevent blotches

I find it easy to work with

 

[Pablo]

 

[spasm3]

Nice color, what are you sealing it with?

I used minwax oil IPSWich stain , the general finish is a satin poly that does amber. Door is pine clad.

Stain below. I like that stain as pine does not absorb stain evenly, but the works well.

 

[shortyb]

So base stain is Minwax and topcoat is GF poly?

 

[shortyb]

View attachment 347773

Cherry is one of my absolute favorite hardwoods to woodwork with. Love a good bird's eye maple and burled walnut too. I am fortunate to have a hardwoods speciality millwork shop nearby and can access all kinds of nice stuff.