Wonderful GM quality

Brett Miller · Jan 10, 2005

Changed the oil on my S-10 4WD yesterday (GC of course

) and noticed the oil lines from the engine to the filter are now leaking. The lines from the filter to the oil cooler had been been previously replaced under warranty but that was long ago.

W.T.McGlynn · Jan 10, 2005

Who do you think put Toyota and the rest of them on the map ?
GM is so big ,they don't care.

JHZR2 · Jan 10, 2005

This is extremely common. Its thenature of pressure-oil lines.

My father's toyota previa has 185k and they have always done this somewhat on the PS system.

My MB, an old turbodiesel puts toyotas and hondas to shame in terms of reliability, longevity, economy as well as costs of maintenance. But it got weeping oil cooler and PS lines as well.

My BMW oil lines weep as well.

Its the nature of the item, not the manufacturer.

JMH

labman · Jan 10, 2005

Everybody kicks GM around on quality. So why are the 2 threads on the Neon and Focus mostly about a lack of problems with Cavaliers?

seotaji · Jan 10, 2005

quote:

My MB, an old turbodiesel puts toyotas and hondas to shame in terms of reliability, longevity, economy as well as costs of maintenance. But it got weeping oil cooler and PS lines as well.

apples and oranges.

toyo's and honduhs are mainly gasoline burners with rubber timing belts. the MB TD uses a chain drive and has the fuel efficiency of a diesel.

i agree though, the old MB's are where the new MB quality should be at.

kenw · Jan 10, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by seotaji:

quote:

My MB, an old turbodiesel puts toyotas and hondas to shame in terms of reliability, longevity, economy as well as costs of maintenance. But it got weeping oil cooler and PS lines as well.

Click to expand...

apples and oranges.

toyo's and honduhs are mainly gasoline burners with rubber timing belts. the MB TD uses a chain drive and has the fuel efficiency of a diesel.

i agree though, the old MB's are where the new MB quality should be at.

sure, and they sound like old farm equipment and smell like old farm animals.

and need a turbo to beat pedestrians across the street.

No thanx

pbm · Jan 10, 2005

Originally posted by seotaji:

i agree though, the old MB's are where the new MB quality should be at.

Could MB's recent quality problems have anything to do with their marriage (takeover) of Chrysler.
MB now has Chrysler like quality.

JHZR2 · Jan 10, 2005

some of us like the diesel clatter.

And show me a good size car made in that era that got 30 mpg. Fuel efficiency =

If you cant drive properly with 120 hp (at full boost), then 500 wont do you any good. Time to learn some driving skill.

As for the MB comment... the pressurized oil hose (for PS fluid, oil, etc) is apples to apples, and I maintain that it doesnt matter if its a GM, toyota, MB, etc, etc.

I could make comments on the supposedly 'top notch' cars, i.e. honda/toyota... The only radiator problems Ive ever seen were on my father's old corolla, my friend's honda and my girlfriend's 94 integra. Both radiators were broken, with holes in the fins/cracking in the plastic top, one while under warrantee, the other two with less than 10 years/100k. All three cars, I know for a fact were dealer maintained. My MB had a plastic top radiator, and the original 1983 radiator (plastic Behr) is still 100%.

JMH

Brett Miller · Jan 10, 2005

My beef with GM is they let quality problems go for years and never do anything about them. The oil line and intake gaskets have been a problem for at least 10 years. And it isn't like this truck has 150,000 miles on it (only 52,000).

JHZR2 · Jan 10, 2005

yep, the intake gasket and rear-end gasket/oil flow issues come to mind.

JMH

TitaniumGT · Jan 11, 2005

lack of problems with cavaliers? yeah right.

how about timing chain sets that go bad after only 40k miles, typical 2.2 SFI head gasket issues, cracked heads at 230 degrees, like most all GM cars, random electrical demons, wheel bearings that fail repeatedly every few years...need i go on.

i work in a large chain parts store and see a healthy mix of various domestic and import cars come in for parts, the majority of which are almost exclusively GM.

gumby_66 · Jan 11, 2005

I have a 99 GMC Safari, v6, same problem.

The lines are poor quality.

We get -30C to +30C, lines start weeping after 1 winter, just a drop or two, but d*mn annoying.

1. Measure the distance past the crimping, mine was 14 inches. Measure outside diameter of line, mine was a hair over 1/2 inch.

2. VERY IMPORTANT remember which lines go where or you will have to crawl under somebody elses vehicle to check. Personal Experience.

2. Go buy #10 Aeroquip Racing Hose or equivalent. and 4 stainless steel hose clamps.

3. Take lines off during an oil change and cut aluminum line just behind crimp.

4. With file or emery cloth clean ends and attach new hose to radiator side. Double clamp.

5. Attach other end to filter side.

6. Add oil, filter and run and check for leaks.

Mine has been on since May 2004, pulled 3500 lb trailer for 8000 KMs during summer in mountains, so far no problems knock on wood.

Steve

Chris142 · Jan 11, 2005

I've replaced a few of them oil cooler lines. Since I work at an A/C and radiator shop we use A/C hose and weld on the proper barbs.

wileyE · Jan 11, 2005

In Germany MB's are Chevrolet's. They're everywhere and nothing special except for the new top-o-line models. Same with BMW.

Good sized efficient cars? How about a '50 Ford that my dad had? We went cross country had plenty of leg and head room for 4 adults and 2 kids, all the luggage in the trunk with room to spare. Cruised all day at 90mph across the flat states no problem. Averaged 25mpg. The thing weighed tons, no aerodynamic tricks, real bumpers, no plastic, no electronic engine controls etc. Just an old flathead v8 with overdrive. So where has 55 yrs ofauto technology really gotten us in terms of efficiency?

JohnBrowning · Jan 11, 2005

To the best of my knoldge the first full/midsize size sedan to get 32MPG was an Ultra Light Dart with a HP version of the slant six. I wish my 31 year old mind could remember the specifics but I know it was a Dart with a HP slant six that was used in Nascar and had a street version as well. Not bad for a six cylinder gasser.

JHZR2 · Jan 11, 2005

regarding efficiency, it is my understanding that if we didnt have all the emissions stuff (but I guess the electronic controls are a good thing) power output and efficiency COULD be much higher.

I wasnt around at the time, but when emissions regulations started showing up, didnt big V8s which used to be making 2-300 HP easily end up rated at ~160, and mileage drop significantly as well?

JMH

BlazerLT · Jan 11, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by Brett Miller:
Changed the oil on my S-10 4WD yesterday (GC of course

) and noticed the oil lines from the engine to the filter are now leaking. The lines from the filter to the oil cooler had been been previously replaced under warranty but that was long ago.

Are they leaking profusely or only sweating a bit.

Mine have been sweating oil for 100,000 miles with no problem.

People also note the new ones leak also.

kevm14 · Jan 11, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by JHZR2:
I wasnt around at the time, but when emissions regulations started showing up, didnt big V8s which used to be making 2-300 HP easily end up rated at ~160, and mileage drop significantly as well?

JMH

Compression drop (for unleaded fuel) and the switch from gross HP ratings to SAE net would do the trick.

XS650 · Jan 11, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by wileyE:
In Germany MB's are Chevrolet's. They're everywhere and nothing special except for the new top-o-line models. Same with BMW.

Good sized efficient cars? How about a '50 Ford that my dad had?The thing weighed tons,

1.5 tons to be precise. The sedans were a hair over 3000 lb and the coupes a hair under 3000 lb. Both are about 300 lb lighter than a late model Honda Accord.

They really chintzed out on the metal in those shoebox Fords. Sheet metal was thin and the frame was a piece of wet spaghetti. With an engine swap, they made good performance cars because they were so light, but the frame was so wimpy the body would crack at the base of the rear windows on the coupe if you ran any power in them.

My 49 Ford (identical car, slightly different trim) weighed just under 2800 lb with a 57 T-Bird engine in it, but it had a lot of non-essentials removed.

kevm14 · Jan 12, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by XS650:
One of the good side effects of having to meet more stringent emissions requirements is that the auto industry was forced to learn a lot more about what actually went on inside and engine and to design control systems that worked.

Modern engines give a better combination of thermal efficiency, good running and power than the old engines ever did except in people's selective memories.

For projects in college I read a lot of 70s and 80s vintage SAE papers on EFI. Emissions controls as well as CAFE seem to be responsible for a lot of the really advanced controls we have today. Things like closed loop fuel control (lambda sensors!), hot wire mass airflow sensing, knock sensing or even distributorless ignition systems. I also read about things that still haven't made it to The Big Time. Such as in-cylinder pressure/temperature sensing or torsional sensing on the crank to determine actual torque output. Oh yeah, variable valve timing fits into this category. I think the current state of the auto industry would be not as advanced if it weren't for that OPEC crap and the EPA...at least these days the HP war has started again.

Wonderful GM quality

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