Wonderful GM quality

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quote:

Originally posted by XS650:

At the same time, the auto industry was being dragged kicking and screaming into lowering emissions and they were still learning how to do it. Some of the 1970s and early 1980s engines were real inefficient.

One of the good side effects of having to meet more stringent emissions requirements is that the auto industry was forced to learn a lot more about what actually went on inside and engine and to design control systems that worked.

Modern engines give a better combination of thermal efficiency, good running and power than the old engines ever did except in people's selective memories. [/QB]

It took decades for Detroit to rediscover what the aircraft industry already knew in WWII. Very lean mixtures, with good atomization and cylinder distribution and high energy ignitions to light it off without misfire. They got almost 1hp per cubic inch and specific fuel consumption way below anything automotive. How do you think gasoline piston engine powered bombers and transports were able to cross the oceans without running out of fuel or self-destructing? Todays computers allow engines to self monitor and adjust compared to the flight engineers on those aircraft.
 
They are leaking enough that there are some spots on the ground. I had the other set replaced under warranty and they are dry (knock on wood)
 
Brett, I have a '99 S10 4X4 and I have changed those same hoses twice. I also changed the trnsfer case hoses once. 48000 miles,it is a work truck.
 
quote:

Originally posted by JHZR2:
regarding efficiency, it is my understanding that if we didnt have all the emissions stuff (but I guess the electronic controls are a good thing) power output and efficiency COULD be much higher.

There are no emissions requirements at WOT (wide open throttle). At WOT, the computer turns off the EGR and other emissions control devices, and richens the mixture. It isn't holding anything back. There's no reason to.

On the Mustang 5.0, the catalytic convertor isn't much, if any, of a restriction. Removing it will gain very little in terms of performance, assuming that it isn't clogged or damaged.
 
quote:

Originally posted by kevm14:

quote:

Originally posted by JHZR2:
I wasnt around at the time, but when emissions regulations started showing up, didnt big V8s which used to be making 2-300 HP easily end up rated at ~160, and mileage drop significantly as well?

JMH


Compression drop (for unleaded fuel) and the switch from gross HP ratings to SAE net would do the trick.


for example, my friend's 70 Buick LeSabre 455 was high compression (11:1 or more?) and my family's 71 Buick 455 LeSabre/Centurion was low (like 8:1) the difference was night and day.

Mileage stayed about the same iirc, except he had a harder time keeping tires on his....
 
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Could MB's recent quality problems have anything to do with their marriage (takeover) of Chrysler.
MB now has Chrysler like quality.

Actually, their quality has been shoddy for a while, but after the merger it got worse.

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My beef with GM is they let quality problems go for years and never do anything about them.

I disagree. GM will issue a statement in various print ads that admit their failures, but don't say how they will rectify their problems. "We're really sorry we've produced crappy cars and have not stood behind them, but buy more!".

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I could make comments on the supposedly 'top notch' cars, i.e. honda/toyota... The only radiator problems Ive ever seen were on my father's old corolla, my friend's honda and my girlfriend's 94 integra. Both radiators were broken, with holes in the fins/cracking in the plastic top, one while under warrantee, the other two with less than 10 years/100k. All three cars, I know for a fact were dealer maintained. My MB had a plastic top radiator, and the original 1983 radiator (plastic Behr) is still 100%.

I could make similar comments about domestics, but we have no real numbers aside from our personal experiences. We'll just have to agree to disagree.
 
quote:

Originally posted by JHZR2:
regarding efficiency, it is my understanding that if we didnt have all the emissions stuff (but I guess the electronic controls are a good thing) power output and efficiency COULD be much higher.

I wasnt around at the time, but when emissions regulations started showing up, didnt big V8s which used to be making 2-300 HP easily end up rated at ~160, and mileage drop significantly as well?

JMH


1n 1972 Detroit went from Gross ratings to net ratings. That was an avberage cut in rated horsepower of about 15% with no other changes.

At the same time, the auto industry was being dragged kicking and screaming into lowering emissions and they were still learning how to do it. Some of the 1970s and early 1980s engines were real inefficient.

One of the good side effects of having to meet more stringent emissions requirements is that the auto industry was forced to learn a lot more about what actually went on inside and engine and to design control systems that worked.

Modern engines give a better combination of thermal efficiency, good running and power than the old engines ever did except in people's selective memories.
 
quote:

Originally posted by JHZR2:
regarding efficiency, it is my understanding that if we didnt have all the emissions stuff (but I guess the electronic controls are a good thing) power output and efficiency COULD be much higher.

I wasnt around at the time, but when emissions regulations started showing up, didnt big V8s which used to be making 2-300 HP easily end up rated at ~160, and mileage drop significantly as well?

JMH


well, that doesn't explain how the smaller and more efficient v6 engines can now do 300+ HP and still meet all the emissions?

It's not the emission changs per se that killed power and such, it was the design. Most domestics had to come up with compliant engines very, very fast and the only way was to bandaid existing designs. Lower the compression, add PCV, EGR, catalytics, etc.

Coupled with the concurrent explosive demand for fuel efficient cars, the domestics (GM being the largest) found themselves with too many large, easy to make v8s that had more power than people now wanted, and had traded efficiency for power for decades.

All of a sudden the market shifted. We wanted fuel efficient cars, GM didn't have any. Even their 4 cylinder engines were from the old school of thought. Sloppy, loose, power focused. The EPA stuff was just conicidence but got Big 3's attention. GM, Ford and Chrysler had to fix what they had and didn't see or think that smaller engines were a longterm reality. So they put all their resources into bandaids and meeting the immediate EPA requirements instead of ground-up design of smaller engines.

oops! guessed wrong there....

When they did design a new engine from the get-go to be efficient on all accounts, they did much better. But the Japanese had been doing it for many years and had quite a headstart.
 
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To the best of my knoldge the first full/midsize size sedan to get 32MPG was an Ultra Light Dart with a HP version of the slant six. I wish my 31 year old mind could remember the specifics but I know it was a Dart with a HP slant six that was used in Nascar and had a street version as well. Not bad for a six cylinder gasser.

You're thinking of the Feather Duster.
smile.gif
IIRC, it was just a 170 slant six (smallest of the bunch), tall axle ratio, and aluminum hood.
 
My GM car-94 Impala SS- did the same thing. The oil cooler lines and the the auto trans cooler lines both leaked. First they just wept a little, but after years, the leaked more and more. I finally replaced all of them with GM dealer hoses. The new GM hoses haven't leaked at all. However, I don't think you would have any problems with a fix as suggested by 'Gumby-66' above. Be sure to remove any burrs from the line cutting and be sure to check carefully for any leaks, just as Gumby-66 says.
 
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