Wix/ Napa best oil Filters

[GumbyJarvis]

Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by gotnogunk
I like the discussion, agree with most. After years on this site, I still see a lack of comparison between filter medium . Why is one better than the others?? The filter paper is what filters the oil.


Well, everyone here thinks what makes one filter better than another is different. Some like the construction regardless of efficiency, some like efficiency as long as the construction is adequate. Others are somewhere in between. Some people like buying the cheapest filter they can find, regardless of efficiency or construction.

Yes the media is what filters the oil ... and therefore IMO buying a filter that does best what it's supposed to do - filter the oil - is my filter goal.




I've seen and used Orange Cans, Puro Classics, Ultras and everything in between on vehicles that have gone well beyond 100, 200, and 300k miles.

At the same time I've seen every filter in the world on engines sitting in wrench-a-parts/pick-n-pulls with blown engines/camshafts/cracked pistons, including the filters mentioned above.

That's why it cracks me up when people always shout ULTRA! ULTRA! on filter reccomendation posts.

Using a name brand oil filter (or a store brand clone) with a namebrand oil that meets your engine manufacturers specs at a manufacturer recommended oci is 99.9% of the battle.

I can almost guarantee you that with proper upkeep, running a 1$ Champ oil filter and a 10$ jug of Formula Shell/Supreme/Harvest King/whatever for most peoples 5k oci is more than adequate. Instead we have people dumping 30-50$ worth of Mobil1/Royal Purple/whatever and a 7-10$ Ultra every 5k.

whatever, its yalls money not mine.

My current fill cost 13$. 7qts of 1.50$ MS6395 oil, 2.50$ clearanced Tough Guard.

The next fill will be seven quarts of 1.89$ Shield Choice (meets spec) and a 2.50$ Mahle. Total Cost? 15.73$

Does my engine care? No, it's doing its job. It doesnt have emotions and doesnt care that I'm not dumping 5.24$/qt (36.68$ worth) of Pennzoil Platinum in it or a 8.97$ Fram Ultra on it.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by GumbyJarvis
That's why it cracks me up when people always shout ULTRA! ULTRA! on filter reccomendation posts.


Lots of people use it, like it and recommend it because it's a very hard filter to beat for people who want high efficiency, high holding capacity (high mile use rating) and good construction at a good price. Some people use it 2, 3 or 4 OCIs dependind on thier maintenance schedule (because it can with little worry), which makes the cost per OCI even better. Guys that under utilize it don't care, they just want a good filter on their engine.

It's not hard to see why people like the Ultra even with some other filters to choose from that fit that tier of filter.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by CR94
Relatedly, it would be interesting to know more about where filter media comes from. Do the major filter manufacturers make their own, or have it custom made, or do they all buy stock materials from the same suppliers? That said, two filters made using the identical grade of media could have different claimed efficiency scores.

A couple of filters in my inventory, of different brands, have media that appears identical under low magnification. One claims considerably higher efficiency than the other one.


Filter media design is very propriatary information, you could never get any filter company to tell you details about the design or manufacturing of the media.

Of course someone or some other company could buy filters on the market and try to "reverse engineer" the materials and design - being careful to not infringe on any patents if they exist. It would also have to be extensively tested (expensive) to verify all kinds of performance factors.

 

[blupupher]

Originally Posted by GumbyJarvis
...
Using a name brand oil filter (or a store brand clone) with a namebrand oil that meets your engine manufacturers specs at a manufacturer recommended oci is 99.9% of the battle.

I can almost guarantee you that with proper upkeep, running a 1$ Champ oil filter and a 10$ jug of Formula Shell/Supreme/Harvest King/whatever for most peoples 5k oci is more than adequate...

For the most part, I totally agree. There are a few motors out there that may need a slightly shorter interval with that combo, but for most, an oil related issue would never happen following this.

Originally Posted by GumbyJarvis
...My current fill cost 13$. 7qts of 1.50$ MS6395 oil, 2.50$ clearanced Tough Guard.

The next fill will be seven quarts of 1.89$ Shield Choice (meets spec) and a 2.50$ Mahle. Total Cost? 15.73$

You are spending too much on your changes.

My motorcycle was $2 (4 qts Peak syn blend and a Bosch D+)
Brother in laws truck was ~$3 (7 qts Magnatec and a Supertech filter)
Mom's last change was ~$5 (5 qts of Valvoline Synpower and a Prime Guard filter).
My truck was Sisters change was Scion was a little expensive @ $11 (4 qts M1 EP and a Car Quest Blue)
and my most expensive change is my Santa Fe, the filter alone is around $8 (buying 4 OEM is the cheapest was for me). My last change on it cost me ~$17 (should be $13), but that was because I was an idiot and forgot to close the drain valve. I poured 6 qts straight through

Only reason I run synthetic is clearance/sale/rebate synthetic oil is cheap and plentiful (my stash has an average cost of $0.92/qt). I don't run my oil to long intervals or severe conditions, so Supertech conventional or equivalent at the same intervals I currently run would be fine for me.
Filters, well, still running through my clearance ones (average cost is $1.58/filter when taking out the high cost of the OEM Hyundai), but when I buy more filters, it will be Supertech or Fram orange can, unless I find more clearance/sale/rebate filters.

Originally Posted by GumbyJarvis
...
Does my engine care? No, it's doing its job. It doesnt have emotions and doesnt care that I'm not dumping 5.24$/qt (36.68$ worth) of Pennzoil Platinum in it or a 8.97$ Fram Ultra on it.

Yeah, I agree on this also.
But remember, we are in a time when only emotion matters, not facts.

 

[Job]

Media manufacturing is pretty much an unknown topic here. What matters are harmful particles, if there are any, in the oil at oil. The SAE lab test is a best effort kind of thing, but isn't a real world test. We aren't putting a scoop of test dust every hour. I like the Frantz filter comparison, where they do a particle count on used oil, leave the oil in, run 200 miles on a different filter, then see if the new filter was better than the one taken off. Very simple and easy way to compare filters. Expensive and takes a lot of test samples to get some good conclusions. We have data showing filters beating the Ultra in particle counts, and that means something is not quite as it may seem in real world use.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by Farnsworth
Media manufacturing is pretty much an unknown topic here. What matters are harmful particles, if there are any, in the oil at oil. The SAE lab test is a best effort kind of thing, but isn't a real world test. We aren't putting a scoop of test dust every hour. I like the Frantz filter comparison, where they do a particle count on used oil, leave the oil in, run 200 miles on a different filter, then see if the new filter was better than the one taken off. Very simple and easy way to compare filters. Expensive and takes a lot of test samples to get some good conclusions. We have data showing filters beating the Ultra in particle counts, and that means something is not quite as it may seem in real world use.

There is a reason they do that, do you know what it is?

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by Farnsworth
We have data showing filters beating the Ultra in particle counts, and that means something is not quite as it may seem in real world use.


It means it was probably an out flyer data point that someone (you know who) always latched on to. But there was more PC test data compiled that showed that particular no name filter was coming in with PC data where other filters rated at 50% @ 20μ and 99% @ 40μ were typically coming in at. And there were other Ultra PCs showing much better/cleaner PC results.

So yeah, PC data can get skewed and the only way to try and control the skewing is to run different filters on the same car, take samples the same way, use the same lab or even sent same samples to 2 labs to cross check lab results.

I thought Subie was about done with his "Frantz" type test of swapping filters 1/2 way through a long OCI to compare PCs.

 

[OLEJOE]

This NAPA filter had a coil spring. Do you think it helped it any?

 

[JohnnyJohnson]

Originally Posted by OLEJOE
This NAPA filter had a coil spring. Do you think it helped it any?


Oh my goodness a NAPALATOR!

 

[Job]

Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by Farnsworth
We have data showing filters beating the Ultra in particle counts, and that means something is not quite as it may seem in real world use.


It means it was probably an out flyer data point that someone (you know who) always latched on to. But there was more PC test data compiled that showed that particular no name filter was coming in with PC data where other filters rated at 50% @ 20μ and 99% @ 40μ were typically coming in at. And there were other Ultra PCs showing much better/cleaner PC results.

So yeah, PC data can get skewed and the only way to try and control the skewing is to run different filters on the same car, take samples the same way, use the same lab or even sent same samples to 2 labs to cross check lab results.

I thought Subie was about done with his "Frantz" type test of swapping filters 1/2 way through a long OCI to compare PCs.




You are the one latched on to your Ultra and the sae test. I'm not latched onto anything here. It was more than one post about filters beating the Ultra . You're very good at searching, I'm not. You can't just say data you disagree with is an outlier. That's an assumption you don't know. You can say it, but it isn't a fact. I can say it wasn't just as easily. It was a very well referenced test, the one.

 

[Job]

Those Napa pleats may be just not glued?

 

[OLEJOE]

Yes. They weren't down in the glue. Just kind of folded back. The problem with filters is you don't know what you have until you cut it open. But you know which one you won't buy the next time.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by Farnsworth
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by Farnsworth
We have data showing filters beating the Ultra in particle counts, and that means something is not quite as it may seem in real world use.

It means it was probably an out flyer data point that someone (you know who) always latched on to. But there was more PC test data compiled that showed that particular no name filter was coming in with PC data where other filters rated at 50% @ 20μ and 99% @ 40μ were typically coming in at. And there were other Ultra PCs showing much better/cleaner PC results.

So yeah, PC data can get skewed and the only way to try and control the skewing is to run different filters on the same car, take samples the same way, use the same lab or even sent same samples to 2 labs to cross check lab results.

I thought Subie was about done with his "Frantz" type test of swapping filters 1/2 way through a long OCI to compare PCs.

You are the one latched on to your Ultra and the sae test. I'm not latched onto anything here. It was more than one post about filters beating the Ultra . You're very good at searching, I'm not. You can't just say data you disagree with is an outlier. That's an assumption you don't know. You can say it, but it isn't a fact. I can say it wasn't just as easily. It was a very well referenced test, the one.


The part in red is connected to why I said what I did. Go glean all the PC data out of the UOA forum, plot it all out and you might also see where the likely outliers are - which includes your cheap no-name super filter. Do you even know where that filter sits on the PC graph? ... in the same range as the 99% @ 40u filters do. I've posted it a few times in these discussions. If you don't believe it, then go dig up all the data, compare it all and see for yourself. There's no better leaning than self leaning.

 

[CR94]

Originally Posted by geeman789
Originally Posted by CR94
... A couple of filters in my inventory, of different brands, have media that appears identical under low magnification. One claims considerably higher efficiency than the other one.
Marketing ... and more marketing. EVERY filter can be 99 % efficient, at some particle size level. Put the 99% IN REALLY BIG LETTERS, and put the particle size in the really small print. Most consumers won't know the difference.
To be more specific, the two examples to which I referred claim 97.5% at 40 microns, and 99% at 30.

 

[CR94]

Originally Posted by OLEJOE
... The problem with filters is you don't know what you have until you cut it open. ...
Cartridges make that problem obsolete.

 

[Deliverance95345]

Ok guys, my first post here. Hoping to not get chewed alive

My personal experience with these filters as Follows:

1. Microgard/Napa Pro Select (IIRC)

Great filter for $5, except the canister is JUNK. I took my Napa brand filter pliers to a MicroGard filter on my neighbor's Monte Carlo. I'm not known to be a strong man, just a modest 5'9" 190lb guy
Darned thing literally caved in under pressure. Talk about a nightmare getting it off.

However, I'll consider that forgiven. After all, you're not paying $12+ for a K&N Gold.

Second of all, I'm guessing Hercules himself put that filter on. So, assuming you did the oil change right and did a quarter/half turn past hand tight, it probably wouldn't have been so darn difficult. My advice? Use a MicroGard if it's a good enough deal, use one in the old Corolla you pick up your drunk buddies in once a week when you're the DD. Not your daily.

2. Napa Gold/Wix

Absolutely the best filter, shy of K&N in my opinion. A family friend has a Chevy SUV that is used all around the mountains. The literal definition of severe service use is her and that SUV.

Last year, I oil changed it. Used 7 quarts of O Reilly Full Synthetic 5W30 and a Wix. Bada-bing bada-boom, so I thought.

Fast forward this year. August she gets oil changed at a small lube place. They changed her oil but not the filter...

Drives on this aforementioned oil, unbeknownst to her that the filter had now been on there 9+ months.

I change her oil again a few weeks ago. Huh? There's a Wix filter on here. Mint! Oh wait, that's the filter I put on last year!

Yep. That filter was on there for (If I recall correctly) almost 15,000 miles of cold winter, a brutally hot summer, dusty environment, low speed driving, plenty of idling, speeds mostly under 50.

This newest oil change, I used 6 quarts Castrol Edge 5W30 + 1qt HY-Per Lube oil additive. Hoping it'll run mint for about 5,000 more miles, when I'll change it again!

Needless to say, I called up that guy. He got a world class chewing from me. Subsequently, I explained tomy dear friend (in a much nicer manner) that the next time she needs an oil change, and the next 137289642078231 times after that, I'll do it rain or shine, half dead or jacked up on Mountain Dew. [censored] or High water, I will do it. I might not be perfect, at least I'm honest.

 

[Job]

Originally Posted by OLEJOE
Yes. They weren't down in the glue. Just kind of folded back. The problem with filters is you don't know what you have until you cut it open. But you know which one you won't buy the next time.



Good to clarify, not a torn pleat, but manufacturing error.

 

[Job]

Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by Farnsworth
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by Farnsworth
We have data showing filters beating the Ultra in particle counts, and that means something is not quite as it may seem in real world use.

It means it was probably an out flyer data point that someone (you know who) always latched on to. But there was more PC test data compiled that showed that particular no name filter was coming in with PC data where other filters rated at 50% @ 20μ and 99% @ 40μ were typically coming in at. And there were other Ultra PCs showing much better/cleaner PC results.

So yeah, PC data can get skewed and the only way to try and control the skewing is to run different filters on the same car, take samples the same way, use the same lab or even sent same samples to 2 labs to cross check lab results.

I thought Subie was about done with his "Frantz" type test of swapping filters 1/2 way through a long OCI to compare PCs.

You are the one latched on to your Ultra and the sae test. I'm not latched onto anything here. It was more than one post about filters beating the Ultra . You're very good at searching, I'm not. You can't just say data you disagree with is an outlier. That's an assumption you don't know. You can say it, but it isn't a fact. I can say it wasn't just as easily. It was a very well referenced test, the one.


The part in red is connected to why I said what I did. Go glean all the PC data out of the UOA forum, plot it all out and you might also see where the likely outliers are - which includes your cheap no-name super filter. Do you even know where that filter sits on the PC graph? ... in the same range as the 99% @ 40u filters do. I've posted it a few times in these discussions. If you don't believe it, then go dig up all the data, compare it all and see for yourself. There's no better leaning than self leaning.

Ultra lost the particle count test according to Blackstone. I don't have the no name filter it was someone else's testing result.There were other cleanliness tests. More particles in the Ultra sample. More is more. When one filter leaves more particles it can't be changed to it left less because it is against someone's opinion..

 

[Mr Nice]

I use Fram Ultra and do multiple drain / refills to increase efficiency.

Zero reason to replace oil filter every oil change.

 

[ThirdeYe]

Originally Posted by Deliverance95345
Ok guys, my first post here. Hoping to not get chewed alive

My personal experience with these filters as Follows:

1. Microgard/Napa Pro Select (IIRC)

Great filter for $5, except the canister is JUNK. I took my Napa brand filter pliers to a MicroGard filter on my neighbor's Monte Carlo. I'm not known to be a strong man, just a modest 5'9" 190lb guy
Darned thing literally caved in under pressure. Talk about a nightmare getting it off.

However, I'll consider that forgiven. After all, you're not paying $12+ for a K&N Gold.

Second of all, I'm guessing Hercules himself put that filter on. So, assuming you did the oil change right and did a quarter/half turn past hand tight, it probably wouldn't have been so darn difficult. My advice? Use a MicroGard if it's a good enough deal, use one in the old Corolla you pick up your drunk buddies in once a week when you're the DD. Not your daily.

2. Napa Gold/Wix

Absolutely the best filter, shy of K&N in my opinion. A family friend has a Chevy SUV that is used all around the mountains. The literal definition of severe service use is her and that SUV.

Last year, I oil changed it. Used 7 quarts of O Reilly Full Synthetic 5W30 and a Wix. Bada-bing bada-boom, so I thought.

Fast forward this year. August she gets oil changed at a small lube place. They changed her oil but not the filter...

Drives on this aforementioned oil, unbeknownst to her that the filter had now been on there 9+ months.

I change her oil again a few weeks ago. Huh? There's a Wix filter on here. Mint! Oh wait, that's the filter I put on last year!

Yep. That filter was on there for (If I recall correctly) almost 15,000 miles of cold winter, a brutally hot summer, dusty environment, low speed driving, plenty of idling, speeds mostly under 50.

This newest oil change, I used 6 quarts Castrol Edge 5W30 + 1qt HY-Per Lube oil additive. Hoping it'll run mint for about 5,000 more miles, when I'll change it again!

Needless to say, I called up that guy. He got a world class chewing from me. Subsequently, I explained tomy dear friend (in a much nicer manner) that the next time she needs an oil change, and the next 137289642078231 times after that, I'll do it rain or shine, half dead or jacked up on Mountain Dew. [censored] or High water, I will do it. I might not be perfect, at least I'm honest.


Welcome! Glad to have you here.