Winter Tires or Cooper CS5?

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Winter tires!
All Seasons are biggest scam in this society!


Spoken like someone who has limited experience with winter driving.
Those of us who grew up driving in snow and ice find modern A/S tires to be a revelatory experience as compared to what was available way back when.
Yes, dedicated winters are very good, but anyone who can't safely operate a car in winter conditions without them probably doesn't need to be driving.
It's all a matter of caution and learned skills.

Spoken like someone who appreciate grip and utility of winter tire and knows that life usually does not work like: i will just stay home during storm.
By the way, grew up in ski resort in Europe, learned driving in winters that can overnight deliver 5-6ft of snow.
But hey, not everyone has telepatic skills to know what is ahead.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: Miller88
I like how my driving skills are being attacked because I prefer to safely equip my car for driving in the snow.

Our city and the state doesn't plow here. It sure is nice to be able to go up an unplowed road in my front wheel drive car to pass AWD and other 2wd vehicles that can't move thanks to all season.

I have driven in the snow in "all season" tires. If there is nothing hard packed and it's just 6 inches of fluffy snow, they will go. If there is anything hard packed ... they don't.

Those are same people who drive 70 in 75mph zone, in left lane of course. Then you pass them driving 85, they give you this look: you are aggressive, dangerous driver. Then construction zone comes, 45ph zone, you drive 50, they still drive 70.
I love argument: if you are careful and skilled driver. Then someone in rush hour traffic WITH winter tires slams brakes and you are behind with "fine modern" all season tires wondering what is more expensive, a winter tires or jacked up insurance.

 

[pandus13]

OP,
incidentally, i had the CS4 on a hyundai elantra. pretty good.
currently i have the CS5 on a toyota yaris sedan.
they where pretty good in snow (but i don't think i hit anything taller than 6")

so you can purchase new snows (watch DTD discounts, Thanskgiving Day is coming...) or some used snow tires + wheels from craigslist with enough meat for 2 years.

 

[rslifkin]

If you live in an area where you even have to think about whether you should buy snow tires, that means you should absolutely buy a set of snow tires. The snow performance is night and day compared to even the best all seasons.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
All Seasons are biggest scam in this society!

Actually, I find all-season tires great for three seasons: spring, summer, and fall.

Sure, I suppose summer tires could work in these same three seasons, but at the expense of treadlife and smaller range of operating temperatures.

There are those times when I don't get a chance to put on my winter wheels/tires on time, and I know I can still get by with the all-seasons until I do find the time.

 

[geekster]

All Seasons work great in Oklahoma for me. Of course we don't really get any snow. We do tend to get a good ice storm every so often. At that point I just stay home for the 3-5 days. When I did live in Colorado we had snow tires and it did make all the difference. That was mostly because we were in a rural area.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: edyvw
All Seasons are biggest scam in this society!

Actually, I find all-season tires great for three seasons: spring, summer, and fall.

Sure, I suppose summer tires could work in these same three seasons, but at the expense of treadlife and smaller range of operating temperatures.

There are those times when I don't get a chance to put on my winter wheels/tires on time, and I know I can still get by with the all-seasons until I do find the time.

Actually I agree in that. BUT, the name is scam. All Season. Here in Colorado I hear people saying: well i have all season tires. Really? that will help you when you are at work in the morning, 60 degrees and by the time you have to leave work it is 17, with 6 inches of powder that covered wet road that turned into ice. On top of that you have to negotiate up and down configuration in city.
Last year in November I went to change tires on both cars. 74 degrees in the morning. Around 3pm rain started to fall. Around 6 it was 20, blizzard, that rain turned into ice on the road that now was getting covered fast by snow. It was a mess driving home. It usually takes me home 20min, it took me 3hrs. Why? Because of "skilled" drivers on latest modern all season tires.
So maybe proper name should be: three season, but all season? People literally take that.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
BUT, the name is scam. All Season.

Well, it's like with anything else. If it is touted as being universal, or meant for all purposes or for everything, then it is typically not great at anything. Just as long as the owner realizes this and knows its limitations, I'm OK with that. But you're right - some people don't. Some people also refuse to get dedicated winter tires because of the added inconvenience.

Quote:
It usually takes me home 20min, it took me 3hrs. Why? Because of "skilled" drivers on latest modern all season tires.

So, it's the weakest link analogy which begs the question: how useful are your winter tires if you're still going to be driving only as fast as the slowest person on the road?

I'm only kidding.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: edyvw
BUT, the name is scam. All Season.

Well, it's like with anything else. If it is touted as being universal, or meant for all purposes or for everything, then it is typically not great at anything. Just as long as the owner realizes this and knows its limitations, I'm OK with that. But you're right - some people don't. Some people also refuse to get dedicated winter tires because of the added inconvenience.

Quote:
It usually takes me home 20min, it took me 3hrs. Why? Because of "skilled" drivers on latest modern all season tires.

So, it's the weakest link analogy which begs the question: how useful are your winter tires if you're still going to be driving only as fast as the slowest person on the road?

I'm only kidding.

I know you are kidding, but that becomes tricky in situation like that.
I can go uphill with no issues on my FWD CC, Subaru Outback (and that is like 7 out of 10 cars here) also goes forward very good on all seasons (I have only seen once here Outback with dedicated winter tires). The problem is when you go uphill, you usually need to go downhill, and that is when thing get interesting. Driving in front of those "drivers with developed skills and latest all season tires" or behind them. I know I can stop decently, but when they try to stop all [censored] starts.
By the way, pick up truck and AWD cars, two most common types of cars in a ditch during slippery weather and snow stems, because all seasons and AWD combination. Goes good forward, but first curve and that is where things end.

 

[chrisri]

Originally Posted By: Rand
Originally Posted By: chrisri
Why not all-weather tyres with snowflake? Those are real winter tyres (although not as good as a top end only winter tyres) that are meant for use year-round.


Not many sold in the USA, nokian WRG3 is about the only one available currently.

I believe toyo has one soon but I have yet to see them here.


Too bad this type of tyres aren't available in US. They are brilliant for climates that get only month or two of snow. Also it's good for people who wish to have proper winter tyres yet can't be bothered with two sets of tyres.

It should be said that All-Weather tyres are not the same as tyres sold under all-season name.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: edyvw
BUT, the name is scam. All Season.

Well, it's like with anything else. If it is touted as being universal, or meant for all purposes or for everything, then it is typically not great at anything. Just as long as the owner realizes this and knows its limitations, I'm OK with that. But you're right - some people don't. Some people also refuse to get dedicated winter tires because of the added inconvenience.

Quote:
It usually takes me home 20min, it took me 3hrs. Why? Because of "skilled" drivers on latest modern all season tires.

So, it's the weakest link analogy which begs the question: how useful are your winter tires if you're still going to be driving only as fast as the slowest person on the road?

I'm only kidding.

I know you are kidding, but that becomes tricky in situation like that.
I can go uphill with no issues on my FWD CC, Subaru Outback (and that is like 7 out of 10 cars here) also goes forward very good on all seasons (I have only seen once here Outback with dedicated winter tires). The problem is when you go uphill, you usually need to go downhill, and that is when thing get interesting. Driving in front of those "drivers with developed skills and latest all season tires" or behind them. I know I can stop decently, but when they try to stop all [censored] starts.
By the way, pick up truck and AWD cars, two most common types of cars in a ditch during slippery weather and snow stems, because all seasons and AWD combination. Goes good forward, but first curve and that is where things end.


Seems that the Subaru logo and having AWD or 4x4 on your vehicle inspires way too much confidence for those who have developed superior driving skills with their all seasons.

I'm just a bad driver who uses snow tires. And I'm okay with that.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Miller88
Seems that the Subaru logo and having AWD or 4x4 on your vehicle inspires way too much confidence for those who have developed superior driving skills with their all seasons.

AWD truly does help build a false sense of security. It helps you get going, even with just mediocre tires, but it does nothing to help you stop and very little to help you steer, and that's when people get themselves into trouble. That's why I made sure wife's Q5 has dedicated winter tires.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: Miller88
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: edyvw
BUT, the name is scam. All Season.

Well, it's like with anything else. If it is touted as being universal, or meant for all purposes or for everything, then it is typically not great at anything. Just as long as the owner realizes this and knows its limitations, I'm OK with that. But you're right - some people don't. Some people also refuse to get dedicated winter tires because of the added inconvenience.

Quote:
It usually takes me home 20min, it took me 3hrs. Why? Because of "skilled" drivers on latest modern all season tires.

So, it's the weakest link analogy which begs the question: how useful are your winter tires if you're still going to be driving only as fast as the slowest person on the road?

I'm only kidding.

I know you are kidding, but that becomes tricky in situation like that.
I can go uphill with no issues on my FWD CC, Subaru Outback (and that is like 7 out of 10 cars here) also goes forward very good on all seasons (I have only seen once here Outback with dedicated winter tires). The problem is when you go uphill, you usually need to go downhill, and that is when thing get interesting. Driving in front of those "drivers with developed skills and latest all season tires" or behind them. I know I can stop decently, but when they try to stop all [censored] starts.
By the way, pick up truck and AWD cars, two most common types of cars in a ditch during slippery weather and snow stems, because all seasons and AWD combination. Goes good forward, but first curve and that is where things end.


Seems that the Subaru logo and having AWD or 4x4 on your vehicle inspires way too much confidence for those who have developed superior driving skills with their all seasons.

I'm just a bad driver who uses snow tires. And I'm okay with that.

I was saying about Subaru drivers, I do not drive Subaru.
And that was my point. Most of the people that I talked to are full of praise for Subaru how they never get stuck! OK, I tell them. I do not get stuck with my FWD VW CC and winter tires, but unlike them, I can safely STOP!
That is the thing. Most drivers of AWD (and I had to indoctrinate my wife about that issue, since she drives AWD and is scared of getting stuck) are saying: well I cannot get stuck, so all seasons are fine. Who cares? You get stuck, someone comes, help you out etc. Problem is when you cannot brake and stop!

 

[SwampSurvivor]

I have always wondered why people are more afraid of getting stuck than not being able to stop. If i'm stuck in a parking spot, I can shovel. If I can't stop ... there's not much I can do

 

[Traction]

Originally Posted By: Miller88
I have always wondered why people are more afraid of getting stuck than not being able to stop. If i'm stuck in a parking spot, I can shovel. If I can't stop ... there's not much I can do


That's when it would be great to have a plow on the front you could drop.

 

[Traction]

Originally Posted By: Traction

I have always wondered why people are more afraid of getting stuck than not being able to stop. If i'm stuck in a parking spot, I can shovel. If I can't stop ... there's not much I can do


That's when it would be great to have a plow on the front you could drop. It would be a great accessory on any vehicle. Would love a lightweight hydraulic V-plow on my truck for stopping , and light plowing

 

[Wheel]

Snows are part of being well prepared in snow country. They are built for that purpose, just like a summer tire is probably best in the dry.

I don't think Subaru drivers are alone in the overconfidence section, I think that list is pretty long. I put snows on my Subaru for the winter, and drive more carefully.

I think all drivers could use more training for driving in bad weather. At the least, they should be familiar with their own car and how it behaves when at the edge (in any weather). Anyone not interested, please take the bus or stay home when it's bad.

A plow will stop you in many cases, but it isn't a pleasant stop. My Dad and I lost the brakes in his Willys plow truck coming back from a job. We stopped with the plow, and both of us were sore from using the seat belts we had added, thankfully.

 

[krzyss]

You may be surprised that summer tire may be the best in the wet too.

Krzys

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: Wheel
Snows are part of being well prepared in snow country. They are built for that purpose, just like a summer tire is probably best in the dry.

I don't think Subaru drivers are alone in the overconfidence section, I think that list is pretty long. I put snows on my Subaru for the winter, and drive more carefully.

I think all drivers could use more training for driving in bad weather. At the least, they should be familiar with their own car and how it behaves when at the edge (in any weather). Anyone not interested, please take the bus or stay home when it's bad.

A plow will stop you in many cases, but it isn't a pleasant stop. My Dad and I lost the brakes in his Willys plow truck coming back from a job. We stopped with the plow, and both of us were sore from using the seat belts we had added, thankfully.

When I was passing driving exam in Bosnia this is how it went:
1. Garage and parallel parking. If you fail that, you cannot proceed to:
2. Stop on hill, hand brake up, then move on without rolling back (in Bosnia you cannot pass driving exam on automatic, only manual), if you fail that you cannot proceed to:
3. City and HWy. When I was doing city there was 3ft of snow on a side, and packed snow on the road (-5-6inches). They stop treating road due to extremely low temperatures, and it was night!

I come to U.S., to Alabama 10 years ago, pass ridiculously easy standardize test, then I was OK for driving test. I come with friends 4 Runner and there was sign on the door: No road test during rain!!!! I mean seriously?
There was garage, and garage was so big you could park semi, the little bit of city driving and that is it.
But then again, people think here that it is their constitutional right to drive in left lane below speed limit. Can you imagine making them equip cars with proper tires? There was initiative to require winter tires on I-70 stretch between Denver and Vail. After some really bad accidents where all accidents happened going downhill (probably those "skilled drivers on latest all season modern tires) someone had idea that maybe it would be good tor require snow tires so people could stop while descending 4000ft in 8 mile stretch of I-70. Anyway, all h e l l broke loose in State. That it is attack on freedom etc, etc. I learned long time ago when I go to ski: avoid I-70 in Colorado during bed weather because of all season tire drivers.

 

[Rand]

Originally Posted By: krzyss
You may be surprised that summer tire may be the best in the wet too.

Krzys


That is a overgeneralized myth.

it is true with some summer tires though.