Will MMO+5w50 kill or clean the engine.

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: ToadU
Complain to Consumer Reports. It's their info and testing.


Yes, I'm sure Consumer Reports has a veritable cornucopia of expert automotive Engineers on staff, folks that would much rather write 3rd grade idiot guides and purportedly test lubricants than work in the industry they are trained in

You honestly think they (Consumer Reports) has actually done any of this "testing" or are they perhaps parroting information that has been given to them from another source? Think about this for a minute.

Originally Posted By: ToadU
They are a reliable source.


On lubricants? Since when?

Originally Posted By: ToadU
And yes, what I posted and gave sources for does in fact say it can harm your engine. Yes, it's in third grade English. I'm sorry your having trouble understanding it. I will look for a documented kindergarten source but it might be hard to find and even if I found some simpler to understand sources you probably still wouldn't get it. Good luck with that 5w50. Ford and GM and Fiat should just fire their engineers and hire you as sole consultant. Think of the money they would save. Have a good night.


Condescension and beratement instead of backing your points make you sound like a spoiled child throwing a tantrum and it certainly doesn't do anything for your side of the argument. Our initial exchange was quite pleasant and I was for the most part in agreement with your first post. It is quite unfortunate that you were unable to maintain that pleasantness when put under pressure and instead allowed this to devolve into personal attacks and insults.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: ToadU
We were taking about a 5w50 which is not appropriate for any daily driver car and not spec'd by the owner's manual. Yes it's elementary because it's written to be idiot proof and written in third grade Enginish so even a moron can understand.


Originally Posted By: ToadU
Good luck with that 5w50. Ford and GM and Fiat should just fire their engineers and hire you as sole consultant. Think of the money they would save. Have a good night.


Here's what the engineers put in the manuals of a bunch of daily drivers.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3996093#Post3996093

No mention of the "starvation", "excessive pressure causing all sorts of problems", just an appropriate temperature range.

Take the charts, make the first number a "5W", and you can see that the 5W50 would be appropriate anywhere...it's the 20W that limits the cold end, and the grade that limits the top.

 

[Olas]

Originally Posted By: ToadU
We were taking about a 5w50 which is not appropriate for any daily driver car and not spec'd by the owner's manual.


NOT TRUE.

5w50 is appropriate for my daily driver whose owners handbook specifies using a 50 in hot climates.

 

[Pontual]

To summup: 5w50 is kindda run it all EO. Isnt inapropriate for most engines, just overkill for most engines (specially at the HSHT side), IMO. No harm would come from using it. But MMO marries better with a higher xxW, for the reason I said earlier. I just happen to Look at the TomNj (the Guy, he is Cappo) brew and youll see what Im talking about. He starts with 15w40, as I pointed earlier.

 

[sw99]

I would wait until summer and run 25% MMO with the 5w50. In cars with questionable maintenance, I would regularly run the 25% MMO with 15w40 HDEO in the summers.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: ToadU
Edmonton isn't that cold.

In addition to what Overkill already said about extremes, do not that General Motors has been permitting 0w30 oils for Canadian winters for a very long time. They clearly know that there are advantages in some situations. Generally, I've stuck to 5w-XX grades, but there are situations where a 0w-XX is useful and even advocated, even in a nominally "one size fits all" application, like the GM world of 5w30 (which is, however, disappearing).

And, these are consumer grade links. This isn't about outsmarting the manufacturer. To an average motorist, 5w30 is 5w30. To a BITOGer, we know that's not the case. Paying attention to the cold cranking portion and the HTHS can be quite helpful, particularly if one is not using a specific specification (i.e. viscosity plus GF-5 or ACEA A3/B4) to choose HTHS in the first place.

Pontual points it out correctly. 5w-50 might be overkill for a lot of vehicles. It's not going to help fuel economy. But, it's not that big of a deal. I would try to use something else, unless I had an overriding need for it. But, if you gave me to options for an oil change tomorrow, one being a 5w-50 and the other being an SAE 30, I guarantee you that the 5w-50 would be in the sump. We might be hitting -25 C or colder next week, and the SAE 30, while having a much lower HTHS, will be essentially useless in comparison to a 5w-50 in cold start conditions.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: ToadU
Why not just follow the owner's manual? Don't you think the engineers know best? I don't get the logic. I really don't. I'm not that smart so I follow the directions. I've had good results in my life following owner's manuals and directions.


Here's one I thought that you might like...it's Mobil 1 15W50 in a 3.8 V-6 (Buick, but in a Holden)...but has been tuned to 200kW.

Holden engineers specify 20W50 (15W40 for snow), but in the US, the exact same engine (minus 200KW tune) is a 5W30 ILSAC.

Here's a used oil analysis...

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/2446765

Can you show where the "starvation", and "other" issues that a thick oil create are evident in the analysis ?

Any evidence of the damage that this oil is causing ?

 

[B320i]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: ToadU
Why not just follow the owner's manual? Don't you think the engineers know best? I don't get the logic. I really don't. I'm not that smart so I follow the directions. I've had good results in my life following owner's manuals and directions.


Here's one I thought that you might like...it's Mobil 1 15W50 in a 3.8 V-6 (Buick, but in a Holden)...but has been tuned to 200kW.

Holden engineers specify 20W50 (15W40 for snow), but in the US, the exact same engine (minus 200KW tune) is a 5W30 ILSAC.

Here's a used oil analysis...

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/2446765

Can you show where the "starvation", and "other" issues that a thick oil create are evident in the analysis ?

Any evidence of the damage that this oil is causing ?


As I understood, the 3800 V6 had something of a 'design flaw' with the oil pump design and thus how much oil it could it move (in both terms of flow and pressure), particularly at idle. Apparently, the high low-end torque of this V6 meant quite a few suffered damaged bottom ends as the oil pump could not supply enough oil to allow the bearings to replenish.

If anything, the recommendation for a 40 or 50 weight oil might have been an acknowledgement of this problem (albeit in a roundabout way) given the more extreme highs we have here in Australia.

So I'd say you running a 40 or 50 weight of any sort would be beneficial for an engine such as this.

By the way - I don't know what years were affected by this issue, and whether or not GM/Holden/Buick ever worked to rectify the issue.

 

[Shannow]

Hadn't hear that...the higher viscosity would reduce the bearing draw and ensure that it was more equally distributed I would imagine.

ToadU might want to look at your UOA with 10W50 in your BMW...

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3997129/Re:_Penrite_HPR10_(10w50)_5442#Post3997129

 

[ToadU]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: ToadU
Why not just follow the owner's manual? Don't you think the engineers know best? I don't get the logic. I really don't. I'm not that smart so I follow the directions. I've had good results in my life following owner's manuals and directions.


Here's one I thought that you might like...it's Mobil 1 15W50 in a 3.8 V-6 (Buick, but in a Holden)...but has been tuned to 200kW.

Holden engineers specify 20W50 (15W40 for snow), but in the US, the exact same engine (minus 200KW tune) is a 5W30 ILSAC.

Here's a used oil analysis...

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/2446765

Can you show where the "starvation", and "other" issues that a thick oil create are evident in the analysis ?

Any evidence of the damage that this oil is causing ?


You don't think the heavier weight oil has anything to do with the 200kw tune? It's not the same engine when that heavily modified. The reason for the higher weight oil is absolutely related to the 200kw tune. Where a vehicle is sold would also effect the spec'd oil weights.

Yes, I can show heavier weights cause oil starvation, premature and excessive wear and other serious engine problems.

drivenracingoil.com This is a Joe Gibbs racing oil site which talks about oil myths. There are many other sources if you don't like or trust Gibbs engineering but I think they are very credible. They have a tiny bit of engine knowledge. Lots more info there as well. I am pasting below a portion regarding daily drivers btw--not racing engines.

""""Many gearheads use motor oil viscosities higher than necessary simply because it is what they’ve always used. But engine technology and components are constantly evolving, and motor oils have evolved along with them. Because of advanced chemistry, a modern engine oil can provide superior protection even at lighter weight viscosities, and that lower viscosity helps free up some horsepower because the oil pump doesn’t have to work as hard to move the oil throughout the engine.

“But I’ve got a lot invested in my ride,” you say. “I’m more concerned with maximizing longevity than squeezing out every last ounce of horsepower. Wouldn’t I be better off still running a modern synthetic oil with a higher viscosity?” The answer is probably not.

The myth of improving protection by increasing viscosity can actually be harmful to your engine in some circumstances. As much as 70 percent of the wear on an engine occurs at start up. That’s because while the engine has been off, the oil has an opportunity to drain back into the pan and away from the areas it needs to be. Obviously, you want to get oil back to the bearings, the cylinder walls and all the way up to the valve train as quickly as possible to bring the protection back where it should be.

So while a thicker, higher viscosity oil does usually provide a stronger film surface to protect the bearings, that only applies once the oil is in place and ready to do its job. But thicker oil is more resistant to flow, and it takes longer for the oil pump to push it through the oil galleries to where it needs to be. A thinner, lower viscosity oil flows more easily right at startup and gets to those critical areas more quickly. Because of that, a thinner oil can actually do a great job of reducing the wear an engine sees when it is first cranked.

But that’s not the only way the myth of more viscosity can hurt both your engine’s performance and protection. The oil’s viscosity must be properly matched to the components in order for both to work their best. “One of the easier and more popular ways to make more horsepower in modern engines is to use lightweight, thinner piston rings that have less tension between the ring and the wall of the cylinder bore,” Speed explains.

“If you use a motor oil that’s too thick for the application,” he continues, “one of the problems you can run into is those low-tension rings won’t be able to properly wipe the cylinder wall and too much oil will find its way into the combustion chamber.”

So the obvious question becomes how thick is too thick? Or, how thin is too thin? After much research, Speed says a good rule of thumb is to monitor the oil pressure at idle when the engine is up to operating temperature. Consider 20 pounds of hot oil pressure at idle to be a safe minimum, so start with your usual oil viscosity and lower the viscosity at each oil change until you get to 25 or 30 pounds idle pressure. Just make sure you use a high-quality oil that won’t lose film strength under normal operating temperatures.

 

[Pontual]

Stop the rope throwing you guys, please!

 

[ToadU]

No rope throwing. I was asked to back-up my statements and I have.

I feel bad for the OP because he bought a ho-hum daily driver from a fleet, not an exotic one off or an Aussie 200kw tune and not a race car. Somehow posters took us in the weeds talking about one of a kind engines and marine engineers being smarter than auto engine manufacturer engineers.

You won't find one credible source or one auto manufacturer or service school that promotes and suggests using Marvel Mystery Oil cut with 5w50 or 15w40 for regular maintenance in a regular daily driver. Not going to happen. Not.

Common sense and all of the data and industry experts and your owner's manual suggest following the directions.

 

[ToadU]

Heck, you won't find one major reputable oil brand suggesting to use oils out of spec. The only time to reach out of spec is for extraordinarily unique circumstances like a highly tuned engine or a one of a kind hand built motor. Also, if you have an engine that has major problems you can experiment because you don't have much to loose--say a 250k Miles engine with stuck rings--heck run Wesson Oil and degreaser in it if you want with some Tabasco sauce. Can't hurt it at that point. For a daily driver with NO run ability problems just follow the manual.

This whole discussion reminds of the Slick50 fanatics--you don't see that stuff around anymore do you?

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: ToadU
You won't find one credible source or one auto manufacturer or service school that promotes and suggests using Marvel Mystery Oil cut with 5w50 or 15w40 for regular maintenance in a regular daily driver. Not going to happen. Not.

Common sense and all of the data and industry experts and your owner's manual suggest following the directions.


Good luck with that premise too

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3996093/Some_manufacturer's__recommend#Post3996093

 

[ToadU]

Show me in the owner's manual where it says to cut 15w40 or 5w50 with Marvel Mystey Oil as part of your regular maintenance. Show me please. Maybe I'm not smart enough to but I just can't find anywhere the owner's manual says that.

 

[ToadU]

Thank you for posting a link to actual,owner's manual from several cars. You sir have proved my point.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: ToadU
Don't run 5w50. That's so bad for your engine unless you apparently have a Shelby GT or Ford track pack Mustang. No other engines for daily driving are spec'd for 5w50. Using oil that's too thick causes reduced fuel economy and excessive wear on start up and may even lead to oil starvation or excessive oil psi causing all sorts of problems or leaks.


?????

 

[ToadU]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: ToadU
You won't find one credible source or one auto manufacturer or service school that promotes and suggests using Marvel Mystery Oil cut with 5w50 or 15w40 for regular maintenance in a regular daily driver. Not going to happen. Not.

Common sense and all of the data and industry experts and your owner's manual suggest following the directions.


Good luck with that premise too



https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3996093/Some_manufacturer's__recommend#Post3996093


Your own pictures of owner's manual prove I'm right. Nowhere does it say to (1) go out of spec and experiment. (2) nowhere does is say to make a home brew with 15w40 or 5w50 using Marvel Mystery Oil.

Nowhere.

 

[ToadU]

 

[Pontual]

ToadU, the OP wants to clean the engine. Manual is written for good kept engines, that need not to clean. If you dont have nothing to add besides read the manual, youre a clouding tool. XD