Wifes Car does not like MMO in some ways

[JohnBrowning]

Ok she has not been charging her batter fully and left the interior light on.She seldom drives her car more then 1-2 blocks. It has been in singles digits all week and was 3 degree's today before church. Her car would roll over but supper slow.

So I charged the battery and all is good now.Until I get the 10W30 out of it that the OEM calls for and 5W30 in I decided to put in the oil. So in went 1 quart of MMO

Normaly cold start it has well over 70psi of oil pressure and I am bypass's a little. THen once it warms up it has 70 psi above 2800 RPMS or their abouts 40psi turning 1500 RPM's and idels around 10-20.

So now with 1 quart of MMO at 5000 RPM's I could not even get 40psi at 1500 RPM it might have 25psi and at idle the needles dances with zero and the red low oilpressure light flickers.

That is a radical drop in oil pressure and her care is a high pressure oil system. I wonder what car's with lower presure to start with have adding 1 quart to the system.

I never got an oil pressure warning light on my Camry when I added 20 onces of MMO to it.

 

[cornfused]

What is the sump capacity?

I've never liked putting in a full quart, maybe you ended up with too high of a mmo % versus oil % ?

 

[JohnBrowning]

4.5 quarts SAE. Not bashing MMO like I said itis temp. to assist in cold cranking until it warmsup a bit. I hate being prone on concrete floor when it is 3 degree's out! Even dressed warm it seems to suck the life out of you rather quickly!

My Camry has a 3.8 quart sump hence the 20 0nce amount. Not that I did the math mind you just know 1 quart would be too much in it. THecamry does not have an oil pressure qage or I should say my Camry does not have an oil pressure gage so it wouldhave to get low enough to trip the idiot lite before I knew an difference.

My point is that the difference is radical and people with out oil pressure guage have no idea if their system is handling it well or not. I am not worried because their was no lifter tick at idle and no rad knocking at idle or all the way up to 6000 RPMS UNDER LOAD so I do not think any damage is being done.

Since no one with a pressure gage has ever commented on this I thought it worth pointing out. Some vechilesmight not have this much difference but I would but many have simalar drops in pressure. The vechile has more then 120,000 miles but not sure exactly I want to say 165,000 miles. The pint is though that I know what it normaly has for oil pressure and I used to have the service manual and know what is acceptable per the OEM and what is not. With out the MMO 10W30 which is what the OEM calls for inthe engine and for oil pressure testing as well as 5W40 and 15W40 all produce acceptable oil pressure numbers. The 10W30 + one quart of MMO does not produce accectaple numbers and if tested as is would fail warranty testing for this engine and would require a new oil pump. The 3800 does not use a low pessure system like all of GM's other engines!

 

[Panzerman]

I would say you have a mechanical issue. I seriously doubt the MMO did anything that drastic, even at a full quart. Especially since you had 10w30 instead of 5w30 anyway. A quart of MMO probably lowered your oil to a 10w25 if even that. There are people on here adding a quart to 5w20 and even on the MMO website, they claim that is acceptable to add 1 qt. to 5w20 oil. I would guess this car has high milelage and your oil pump screen is partially clogged and the cold temps are aggrevating the problem.

 

[gathermewool]

Originally Posted By: Panzerman
I would say you have a mechanical issue. I seriously doubt the MMO did anything that drastic, even at a full quart. Especially since you had 10w30 instead of 5w30 anyway. A quart of MMO probably lowered your oil to a 10w25 if even that. There are people on here adding a quart to 5w20 and even on the MMO website, they claim that is acceptable to add 1 qt. to 5w20 oil. I would guess this car has high milelage and your oil pump screen is partially clogged and the cold temps are aggrevating the problem.


I agree with this.

Also, your cold cranking issue seems battery-related, not oil-related. You charged the battery and said yourself that it was good to go afterward. Keep the 10W-30, change out or maintain charge on the existing battery and recheck the oil pressure with an accurate gauge.

 

[PT1]

Originally Posted By: JohnBrowning

So now with 1 quart of MMO at 5000 RPM's I could not even get 40psi at 1500 RPM it might have 25psi and at idle the needles dances with zero and the red low oilpressure light flickers.


Add 1 quart of any solvent and you will get the same result.

 

[Billy_D]

Why did you add the MMO?

 

[JohnBrowning]

Pamzerman you did not pay attention. THe OEM recomendation is 10W30......I am putting 5W30 in it because it works just as well especialy as a synthetic as 10W30 but has better cold crank numbers then 10W30....GM calls for 10W30 for her 1997 Buick with 3800. The OEM testing procedure calls for 10W30 for all warranty oil testing procedure. I tested it prior to adding the MMO this is not a matter of opion thisis a matter of a mesurment at specific RPM's warm with out MMO then with MMO. Their was 5 minutes between the testing session after a 30 minute minute drive to reach operating temp at 70MPH.....

Not only can I count to 20 with out removing my shoes but I can read a gage just fine. As a person that was working as an ASE Certified Technician at 19 years old I can be trusted to read an oil pressure guage. The gage in question is one of the few that reads real time that is very lightly dampened so all fluctions are seen. We cars and trucks today have gages that have this little dampening most needles today do not fuctuate constantly because they dampen their movement very heavily. Some do not even read real time. GM has traditionaly had very accurate oil pressure gages in their car's and trucks it is one area I think they have always done very well in. In fact seldom do I find them off more then 2 psi when I hook up my remote pressure qage. The weakness in GM's setup has always been the rubber diaphram in the sender they fail and leak oil all ovr the place. A change to viton or something like it would elminate that as an issue.

If their was significant mechanical damge then it would show up under the control with 10W30. Mechanical damage does not come and go it cannot be their with MMO but not show itself with the OEM recomended 10W30. In fact I have tested it in the past with synthetic 5W30,5W40,10W30 and 15W40...The only oil that produced drasticaly different oil pressure out of the 4 was the 15W40 all of the other's where easily with in 5 psi of each other hot and cold across the board. In fact I can tell when the oil needs cahnging by the hot oil pressure reading right around the time that the OLM wants to come on maybe 1000 miles before the hot oil pressure will drop from the published specifications. I know the oil has sheared then and needs changing.

I also tested dino 5W30 in this engine and it never caused the low oil pressure light to come on at idle and while it was not in the same range as the above oil's it was still with in the OEM's recomendations for oil pressure.

I know a lot of you guys like to toss opinions around but oil pressure reading do not lie and this is especialy true when the testing is done with in 5 minutes of one another.

Unlike most people I cheak all my gages not less then every 30 seconds unless I am lost or navigating in unfamilar area. In flight school you get beat up on checking all the gauges and instrument then scaning the sky then checking the instruments and gages then scaning the sky etc...........I can tellyou how fast I am going by RPM and gear selection because of this.

 

[expat]

I'm thinking you may have had a lot of fuel dilution with the 10w-30 and adding the MMO did not help any.
For peace of mind, I think I would change the oil and stat again!

 

[demarpaint]

In 35 years I've never run into that situation, and had many cars with mechanical OP gauges. Sounds odd but anything is possible.

 

[hate2work]

Originally Posted By: PT1
Originally Posted By: JohnBrowning

So now with 1 quart of MMO at 5000 RPM's I could not even get 40psi at 1500 RPM it might have 25psi and at idle the needles dances with zero and the red low oilpressure light flickers.


Add 1 quart of any solvent and you will get the same result.


+10

 

[demarpaint]

I've seen slightly lower oil pressure in cold temps. That indicates the oil is flowing better. I've never seen anything like JB is experiencing. In fact I'm running a full qt right now in two vehicles I own. So adding 1 qt of "solvent" didn't give me the same results.

Maybe like JB said his wife's car doesn't like MMO.

 

[mechanicx]

Maybe your oil filter is clogged somehow maybe from the MMO cleaning effect and is running in bypass mode? That might account for about a 10 psi drop. Why not try changing the oil filter first?

If that doesn't fix it, you can't really rule out some type of mechanical failure suddenly popping up or blame MMO, until you switch it out for some straight 5W or 10W30 and retest.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Maybe your oil filter is clogged somehow maybe from the MMO cleaning effect and is running in bypass mode? That might account for about a 10 psi drop. Why not try changing the oil filter first?

If that doesn't fix it, you can't really rule out some type of mechanical failure suddenly popping up or blame MMO, until you switch it out for some straight 5W or 10W30 and retest.


Took the words right out of my mouth! Good idea! I had an oil pump go on a 87 Regal 3.8L. It came on sudden which shocked me. I just bought the car used from a lot, dealer prepped, 100 miles into the dealer OC the pump went out. It happens.

 

[crazyoildude]

change your oil and use the 5w30 only

 

[Familyguy]

Originally Posted By: JohnBrowning
Ok she has not been charging her batter fully and left the interior light on.She seldom drives her car more then 1-2 blocks. It has been in singles digits all week and was 3 degree's today before church. Her car would roll over but supper slow.

So I charged the battery and all is good now.Until I get the 10W30 out of it that the OEM calls for and 5W30 in I decided to put in the oil. So in went 1 quart of MMO

Normaly cold start it has well over 70psi of oil pressure and I am bypass's a little. THen once it warms up it has 70 psi above 2800 RPMS or their abouts 40psi turning 1500 RPM's and idels around 10-20.

So now with 1 quart of MMO at 5000 RPM's I could not even get 40psi at 1500 RPM it might have 25psi and at idle the needles dances with zero and the red low oilpressure light flickers.

That is a radical drop in oil pressure and her care is a high pressure oil system. I wonder what car's with lower presure to start with have adding 1 quart to the system.

I never got an oil pressure warning light on my Camry when I added 20 onces of MMO to it.


Slow news week? That's your second post about this in a rather short time frame. As others have mentioned, it might be worth spinning on another filter to see if that's the culprit.

 

[Panzerman]

Excuse me Mr. Browning You are a bit testy. Regardless, my main point was I dont think its the grade of the oil, so we are both somewhat in the same opinion there. I dont feel that 5w30 is going to be any thicker or thinner than the 10w30 with MMO in it and I also think that way too much emphasis is put on the grade of oil. 5w30 and 10w30 is splitting hairs. Some oil companies thin thier oils down to the bare specs such as Havoline, thier 10w30 is almost a 5w30, where Castrol hangs on the thicker side and thier 5w20 is almost a 5w30. Just "about" anything that specs 10w30 will be fine on 5w30,5w40 or 15w40 without problems.My next guess was already taken that the oil filter would effect the oil pressure far more than the oil grade unless it was really, really diluted. Iam not a certified mechanic. I have however been a truck driver for 13 years and am a competent guage watcher since the engine under the hood cost in the excess of $20,000 and it was my engine. I still think its a mechanical issue, but the cheapest quickest thing to do is just change the oil and see if the problem goes away. No reason to get so excited.

 

[Scienceman]

Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Originally Posted By: Panzerman
I would say you have a mechanical issue. I seriously doubt the MMO did anything that drastic, even at a full quart. Especially since you had 10w30 instead of 5w30 anyway. A quart of MMO probably lowered your oil to a 10w25 if even that. There are people on here adding a quart to 5w20 and even on the MMO website, they claim that is acceptable to add 1 qt. to 5w20 oil. I would guess this car has high milelage and your oil pump screen is partially clogged and the cold temps are aggrevating the problem.


I agree with this.

Also, your cold cranking issue seems battery-related, not oil-related. You charged the battery and said yourself that it was good to go afterward. Keep the 10W-30, change out or maintain charge on the existing battery and recheck the oil pressure with an accurate gauge.


correct, some people seem to get battery and oil mixed up.

 

[JohnBrowning]

I took Photo's of oil pressure guage with the 10W30 and MMO and new filter...... I then drained the oil with MMO in it including draining the new filter....I reinstalled the exact same filter and refilled with Walmart Synthetic from the clear bottles in 5W30 and took shot of Oil Pressure Gage. All of the conditions and RPMS remained the same. It was only how ever long it took me to draina nd refill so the time between snap shots was not drastic. All fluids sat in the car over night so everything was at the exact same temp etc......... I am going from memory but I think if I recall right the 5W30 produced oil pressure that was within 5 PSI of a brand new pump for waranty testing....Keep in mind warranty testing specified dino 10W30 oil so even with the 5W30 and the 165,000 miles it is with in 5 psiof a new part with thinner then recomended oil as per the GM service manual. So I think we can rule out mechnical wear as any source of the problem!

Yes I see this radical of a drop in oil pressure following the Manufactures recomendations as an issue. If you use less then recomended I doubt one would get any easier cold starting and one would get even less cleaning ability then we see now. I have never seen MMO do any real cleaning just very mild cleaning and keep inmind I always used it at 1 quart per oil change per 4 quart engine etc.......Few of my vechiles have had oil pressure guages unless I installed them myself.

The Camry I added the 20 onces of MMO just to see if it would affect anything. We will see when I can afford to send in my oil for UOA.

 

[JohnBrowning]

You could eat out of this engine. First It ran on M1 the first 80K miles that my Grandmother owned it and was changed more freg. then OLM. When it started to leak at the intake my leake was external so no sludge issues. In fact I cleaned the little bit of build up that was onthe ballance shafts and inthe valley by hand.....I did two ARX clean and rinses about a year before that. I had used B12 to clean it out once after I workedo her then followed that with one OCI with MMO and fresh oil just to make sure.

The metal parts in the head look shiny and bright silver no deposits at all! The filter was hot the other day I checked just to make sure. TOnight when I retested and took photo's I made sure to install a fresh filter for the test's just to make sure! Same filter was used for 10W30+MMO oil and the fresh non-MMO 5W30
I leftnothing to chance and made sure varaibles where controlled!

MMO has the potential when used as directed to drasticly alter the oil pressure. You can live in denial all you want but the oil pressure measurment is not subject to bias!