Why the need for an engine overhaul . . . ?

[Crusader]

I hear posters state your paint will peal off, wheels fall off, body will rust out long before the engine needs to rebuilt . . . .

So if your changing you oil regularly with dino and doing UOA with synthetic on longer intervals etc. then what is the problem? I have original 254,000 miles on my 93 Civic and have every reason to believe that it will go well beyond 400,000 miles with out an overhaul. I will have the head off to change out a head gasket shortly. Granted the car is not quite as peppy as it was when new but in all reality it's not too far from it. It doesn't feel tired.

Anyhow I've heard other posters imply that making it to 200,000 miles with brand "XY" car represents max service life call it good - buy new car. Meanwhile these posters are pouring over UOA and all types of synthetic oils for low wear and service life. If all I can expect to get out of a car is 200,000 miles then I'm getting ripped off IMHO.

So I ask what am I missing here. I will be very disappointed if I don't get at least 500,000 miles plus out of my Honda Civics before ANY engine rework. So I ask . . why such low total mileage expectations from many car owners?

Any insight or reflection on this issue?

 

[01rangerxl]

A lot of times the car just isn't worth fixing. The local Pull-A-Part is packed with early to mid 90s Infinitis...not worth much when they run right, and certainly not worth anything when they need a head gasket and all of the power features have quit working.

Also, some people just get tired of the car long before that point.

The use of synthetic oil is mostly just overkill in most situations. I admit to putting synthetic oil in my Ranger, which is pointless since I know it will last a very very long time with dino...but it makes me feel good to buy it the best. Odds are all that money spent on synthetic will go to waste since I may be selling the truck in order to keep my Explorer (4WD and power everything wins out). The Explorer will not get the synthetic treatment since dino stuff seems to have worked very well for it over the last 12 years. No need to throw money away on a trail rig/beater.

 

[MrCritical]

Even with the best oils and maintenance schedule you still have internal engine wear. The pistons dont fit as snugly in the block, cam wear, rings ect. This leads to lower compression, and increased emissions to name a couple of things. In some states, the high mileage engine won't pass an emissions test due to less efficient combustion and increase in emissions.

If you can feel ANY difference in your performance of an approximate 100 horsepower engine, you probably have lost 10-20% of the original engine's power. Over a period of 14 years it has been so gradual you don't notice it as much as if you could drive the original and today's car back to back.

Does this mean you need an overhaul? Absolutely not. If you're satisfied with the engine's performance, not using oil excessively, not fouling plugs, I say let 'er rip! 400k is definitely attainable.

 

[Bill in Utah]

My 1986 Jetta has over 320k on it and passes the Dyno Smog test with no problems.

All it has ever seen is Halvoline/Valvoline every 4-5k. Most of the time it was 10w-30 and 5w-30. And a big thing IMO is most of those miles with SF, SG, SH, SJ oils.

And lets face it, todays SL/SM standard is MUCH BETTER than oil of yesterday.

So, if I can take many engines well past 200k and one past 300k with mostly using yesterdays oils, I have no worries with todays SM oils.

If the engine is going to make it, its going to make it no matter what type of oil you put in it.

This mindset that the only way is if you use this brand or this type is the only way to make it past 200k is too funny.

Like my tag line states, follow the manual for type and OCi and long life is going to be the rule.

Take care, bill

 

[andyd]

What Bill sez x2. I use nothing but oil grade specced by the owners manual. In my 88 528e, that is 20w50. 3-4k OCIs using dino Supertech and STP filters. 346k miles It just passed MA dyno emissions with flying colors

 

[Curious Kid]

A little OT:

Call me the odd ball, crazy, whatever. Perhaps it to was a matter of circumstance, timing, an overfill of automotive publications and engine operating manuals...but I did it because I felt like it. I sure liked cracking the covers and pan which brought life to my first vehicle and meaning to all the efforts to learn of it's operating processes. Something about working with the tools, bringing and picking-up pieces from the engine shop a few miles away. I made it without the car, but it was a PITA and occupied my time till completion. I don't regret doing so, especially after reinstallation and priming of the carb, to see and hear the engine fire once again in a few seconds of cranking.

What can I say, I'm a gear head...whose perhaps has had the misfortune of being concerned with just what our craze and fancy for crude/energy alike might be leading us. IT's messed-up I'll tell yeah...kind of support multiple personality development, no?

I to like giving my equipment what I feel is the best treatment, but without some degree of agitating treatment will one ever know what isn't good treatment to begin with in the particular situation? Because someone says this or that? there's baselines yes, but the best? I think there's always an element of chance amid all the factors involved and external resources required to be acceptable...and then there's chance of accident no less. That said I think I am thankful all's made it thus far in the way it has, not that I can't wish better.

Interesting how expansive this entry has become.

Take care.

 

[alreadygone]

My '95 Blazer with 4.3 v6 is up to 230,000. It's beginning to leak slightly,oil pressure's down slightly from a couple years ago, but I have no intention of rebuilding it anytime soon! Actually, have no intention of rebuilding original engine period. When it has a rod hanging through the side of the block in another 100k or so, I'll buy a NEW GM Goodwrench long block and run her another 3-400,000. Body, frame,suspension, interior are still worth spending money on.

Bob

 

[Cutehumor]

on another point, 200k miles is almost 20 years in one car for me. With my 96 sunfire, I'll drive it until something major breaks trans or headgasket. car has paid for itself. I'm doing 10k miles a year.

 

[artificialist]

My dad's 1997 Lexus ES300 had an engine that was running well, a transmission that shifted well, although they leaked some oil. However, the body was getting metal fatigue, the radio display was impossible to read (And this was no standard radio, dealer only) and the hinges on the glove box, cupholder, and armrest were worn out (Also dealer only items)

At that point, repairs exceeded the value of the car, and since the ride quality had gone severely downhill, dad sold it and bought the 2007 Pontiac G6. He has no regrets making that decision.

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:

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body will rust out long before the engine needs to rebuilt . . . .

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This assumes that you have a well designed engine. Suppose you can depend on it to last due to fixable, but defective factory/OEM parts?? Take our infamous GM V6 leaking intake gaskets. Now sure, the intake gaskets themselves are not an overhaul/rebuild ..but the lack of being aware of the problem could surely take out an engine. Suppose the car is in great shape and throwing in a reman can provide another decade of use?

I threw a long block in my 15 year old minivan beater. Cost me about $3k total. What could I buy for $3k? A basket case of someone else's hand me down problems. I lost on the deal since it got stolen ..but the concept was right. All I had to do is not crack it up beyond a total loss and I was good until the body rotted off. Less than a years worth of payments on anything new. I was even prepared to buy a factory reman trans for it if needed. The thing was a shell outside of the engine bay.

I wouldn't have rebuilt this myself. I'm way too stale and way too lazy to do an engine at this juncture of my life. Not for something that I wanted to have in service right away anyway.

It's just a matter of convenience and perceived costs. If you can eternally write off $3600-$5400 a year to new(er) vehicle costs ..plus the escalated insurance as they get more and more expensive ..more power to you. When you finally reach saturation (think of magnetic fields fully expanding through coils) and you've got next to nothing left to get your next gratifying item ..you may look at that payment as an anchor that's weighing you down. Sooner or later most reach that point of enlightenment.

 

[rjundi]

My Civic was sold at 225k miles/9 years old with a perfectly running motor was sold for the following reasons:

1) worn out suspension
2) excessive body creaks(esp sunroof) and rattles
3) worn out seats that were beyond uncomfortable
4) bumper sagged due to rust in brackets that hold it.
5) rust bubbles everywhere
6) heat only blew out cool air at idle and hot only when revved, taken to two shops never resolved
7) I got plain sick of driving it

I agree more mileage was possible but if you don't like your ride move on.

 

[Max_Wander]

Crusader, why do you need to change your head gasket? Head gaskets go bad from overheating, overheating happens because of inadequate cooling.

You might as well do your timing belt and water pump while youre in there, and you jus might be able to get your 400K, or somethig reasonable, out of the vehicle.

 

[Crusader]

Quote:

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Crusader, why do you need to change your head gasket? Head gaskets go bad from overheating, overheating happens because of inadequate cooling.

You might as well do your timing belt and water pump while youre in there, and you jus might be able to get your 400K, or somethig reasonable, out of the vehicle.

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The original headgasket was replaced at around 100,000 or so in 1999. The independent shop had no clue that there was service bulletin from Honda 97-047 calling for a special gasket and special headbolts only to be used on Civics that are prone to sipping coolant and external leaks. So at 254,000 I will do this repair myself. Already replaced water pump and headgasket last year. Car temp gauge has never made it into the red under my watch. Coolant system works fine. Radiator might be due for replacement since it's the original. Time will tell. Car has been recently pressure tested by another independent shop and passes. Yet they can't see the gobs oil coming from the headgasket area on all sides.

 

[Eddie]

No one has mentioned the safety issues with a car 20 years old and with 200,000 + miles. In addition; while I enjoy my vehicles and do my own service work, I DO NOT want a hobby car. I usually sell mine at ~ 8 years with 125-150,000 miles. That equats to 3 brake jobs, one water pump and maybe a starter or alternator. 4 sets of spark plugs + air cleaner, trans & differental fluid and of course oil/filter changes.

 

[Lonnie]

Beyond good maintenance, driving habits and driving conditions determine how long your car will last. It's just that simple. If you like the car and take care of it you can go way beyond the payment book. I'm at 492k miles with an 84 Civic wagon and see no end in sight. The head has not been off and there are no indicators that point to any problems. I have original spec compression and great mileage and it passes Calif smog although last time tooks replacing valve seals and a double dose of Auto-Rx to go from pass to fail. Others in this thread have hit many of the factors effecting how long a car lasts in your hands.

 

[Crusader]

Quote:

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No one has mentioned the safety issues with a car 20 years old and with 200,000 + miles. In addition; while I enjoy my vehicles and do my own service work, I DO NOT want a hobby car. I usually sell mine at ~ 8 years with 125-150,000 miles. That equats to 3 brake jobs, one water pump and maybe a starter or alternator. 4 sets of spark plugs + air cleaner, trans & differental fluid and of course oil/filter changes.

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Great point a new Civic has full airbags etc. I'd rather crash one of those than either my 93 or 98 Civic. Then again that is why people justify a full size SUV for occupant safety. Every day has risks and we are forced to make compromises.

The other point is the newer Civics 2001-2005 & 2006 to current seem to have more issues. Newer is not always better IMHO. This doesn't mean I wouldn't buy a new Civic but I do have my reservations about them.

Almost 500,000 miles on a 84 Civic that's what I like to hear.

Congrats.

 

[CBDFrontier06]

There are a few engines in existance that despite meticulous care, will still burn excessive amounts of oil by the time 100K rolls around...sometimes before. Case in point: GM 2.5 Iron Duke. I can't imagine why anyone would want to invest any time or money in one unless it was important to an overall restore project, but these engines were notorious for oil consumption even when regular maintenance was performed. An overhaul and installation of updated components was the only way to make these engines burn more gas than they did oil and not sound like a diesel (upgraded timing gears solved this).

 

[Spitty]

Perhaps this thread should be re-titled; "Why the need for anything but basic API approved oil"

 

[meep]

I drive a $1,500, 1993 Jeep GC with 231,000 miles. It knocks, sounds like a diesel, burns oil... but starts every day, is comfy to drive, gets 20+ mpg, gets me to work during the day and carries music gear all over nasty fields/development sites, curbs... at night.

Not sure which - the rear end or engine will be first to go. Repl engine for 3k, or buy another jeep for 3k.... If the frame wasn't a bit bent, it'd be a no-brainer...engine!

mike

 

[wander2039]

Hmmm I had a 2.5L Iron Duke and it never used any oil, at least from the 100 to 150k mark. I used Havoline during that time. But I got to follow the old piece of poo a month ago and it was smoking, don't know how the new owner is on maintenance. And that is to key to why some engines need overhauled, unless it some sort of metallurgy flaw.