Why the dislike for CVTs?

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Feb 27, 2019
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For your standard economy commuter, CVTs make a lot of sense. More fuel efficient and easier to keep a lesser engine in its power band. It can also be extremely smooth. I see no advantages to a slush box auto over a CVT in something like a Corolla, Civic, CRV, Forester. Yes, reliability was a concern at the beginning but that's largely been resolved. Modern CVTs are no less reliable than slush boxes.

I agree for trucks, they shouldn't have CVTs. But I always laugh when people say it's not sporty enough because it has a CVT. You want sporty, get a manual. There's nothing sporty about any automatic tranny.
 
For your standard economy commuter, CVTs make a lot of sense. More fuel efficient and easier to keep a lesser engine in its power band. It can also be extremely smooth. I see no advantages to a slush box auto over a CVT in something like a Corolla, Civic, CRV, Forester. Yes, reliability was a concern at the beginning but that's largely been resolved. Modern CVTs are no less reliable than slush boxes.

I agree for trucks, they shouldn't have CVTs. But I always laugh when people say it's not sporty enough because it has a CVT. You want sporty, get a manual. There's nothing sporty about any automatic tranny.
There’s your answer...
 
I agree that CVTs have their place. I recently started a thread on CVTs in regards to members CVT reliability.

I like CVTs just fine for the normal-ness of everyday driving. Just get in, start the engine and drive off. How easy is that?
I agree that they suck the life out of the driving experience when wanting to drive hard. But for me, I don't want to drive hard(anymore)! If I did, I would have purchased a vehicle for that.
 
There's a few things that work against the CVT in the eyes of car owners despite what positives a well-sorted CVT can bring to the table.

Historically speaking*, CVTs have been a joke when it comes to reliability in automobiles. Nissan was the first (2006) to really go big with them and put it in a mass-produced car for the North American market and the transmissions they were sourcing weren't great, to put it lightly. It took a long time (2014ish) for really reliable CVTs to hit the market with Toyota and Honda, but by that point, there had been a lot of burnt bridges because of just how bad the JATCO CVT was, which by this point was in Nissan, Mitsu, and other smaller OEs.

CVTs generally aren't rebuildable, and are more expensive than their traditional automatic counterparts. This is problematic when you consider the higher-than-normal failure rates of early CVTs.

CVTs aren't fun. Look no further than the Nissan Maxima, which was billed as really the first four door sports car from the early '90's to early 2000's. Those were great cars- practical but with good power and good handling. The Maxima was one of the first that Nissan put a CVT into and it turned people off. It was too different, and too numbing.

CVTs have little room for error in the eyes of the car buying public now. Perception goes a long ways and issues tend to stand out more to potential car buyers than the positives a car has to offer.

Ultimately, I think that had automakers (looking at you, Nissan) waited to make sure that the CVT would've been a more robust unit, you wouldn't see as much derision towards them today. Like has been pointed out, they do offer a lot of benefits- more time spent in the power band, more compact, slight increases in fuel efficiency, etc.


*I understand Nissan wasn't the first with the CVT- Subaru had one in the late '80s, Audi put them in some A4s in the early '00s, etc etc.
 
I was a young mechanic out of high school working at a Honda dealer and they had the Civic HX with either a stick or an auto which was a CVT.
Yes, Honda did put CVT's in a very small number of Civics in 1996 models.
The HX models were rare and meant for high fuel economy. The 6th gen Civic HX with a CVT usually failed during the 3/36K warranty.
But Honda learned from it.
 
With CVT there still seems Seems to be an issue in proper programming. Maybe due to maximum load they can handle. There are losses in the Belt -sheave friction and high pumping losses in the hydraulics that control the sheave widths for the variable action. Some still use a traditional torque converter with those losses. On the Subaru, they use a very small converter just for 5MPH idling / creep around with a lockup clutch that removes the pumping/heat losses of a converter - and that early, low speed lockup it is very noticable with a " direct connection" feeling.

If I was sad with a Autobox, it would be a DSG. or a clutch converted 4 speed Hydramatic with a floor slap stick.

I have an aversion to wheel mounted paddle shifters and I don't know why.

Now I'm thinking about a motorcycle-style left foot sequential ratchet shifter - which seems pretty natural. Adapted for motorcar use.
Whoa, I may have just come up with something Big there!
 
Modern CVTs are no less reliable than slush boxes.

I'm not believing this one any time soon.
I didn't break my infamous JATCO in my '14 Nissan Qashqai with a 2.5L - and I break EVERYTHING.

Did a lot of manual downshifting for engine braking and acceleration response,

Only two ranges on this trans example. " O.D. on/off" and "LOW" sort of like a low 2nd gear and a 3rd gear on a traditional 4EAT
 
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When a CVT fails the belt and the special pulleys must be replaced, and are expensive.

early materials not as good, manufacturer choices about the torque and belt size were optimistic to say the least. The friction characteristics of the fluid used were not as good as now. A lube that allows the belt to grab and still lube bearings etc is exotic.
Thy are much better now. Still do not have the life potential of a step geared transmission but the gap is narrowing.
 
why the hate? it's simple: unreliable, problematic pieces of garbage. we had two of them. non-stop issues with them. 5 trips to the dealer just for the Sentra. severe shudder, whining... usually they could not fix it. The Rogue started whining at 20k miles. There are constantly class action lawsuites for the various models of Nissans due to the CVT. we just got notice that the Sentra warranty is extended due to the latest. we have the latest fluid in ours - and they are still problematic. most "fixes" from Jatco have been the addition of coolers and software changes. based on the fluid degradation rate that I see, they still need more cooling - and I am not in a hot part of the country. "most of the problems have been fixed"? no.

certainly I recommend a fluid change every 20k. but they are still unreliable and problematic. as far as fixing them - when ours finally goes out totally I will fix it myself. better shops will deal with them - at a high price.
 
I think some of the problem is that people drive them like a normal automatic. Then they complain about how the engine revs too much and it's "buzzy". In most cases if driven correctly a CVT is much smoother than an automatic.

Proper pedal modulation is required and I think that's just too much for the average person to handle mentally.
 
I didn't break my infamous JATCO in my '14 Nissan Qashqai with a 2.5L - and I break EVERYTHING.

Did a lot of manual downshifting for engine braking and acceleration response,

Only two ranges on this trans example. " O.D. on/off" and "LOW" sort of like a low 2nd gear and a 3rd gear on a traditional 4EAT

If you do break your CVT, repair options are limited, as least for now.
 
If you do break your CVT, repair options are limited, as least for now.
Wouldn't be a problem, if they were cheap to replace. I mean, back in the day people could take apart a sparkplug (and other item) to fix it, eventually mass production drove the cost down. If they could make a CVT sell for like a grand, maybe no one would care if it only went 150k. [Well some would but others would just accept the cost due to the benefit/cost ratio.]
 
Modern CVTs are no less reliable than slush boxes.

I snorted coffee out my nose. Thats a fairly generous statement there.
Also calling modern conventional automatic transmission a slush box is less true than your statement about reliability.

Part of the issue as mentioned is repairability. Subaru which has some of the best cvt's Chain type instead of pusher belt type.. about $8000 for a new one.

So if for some reason it did fail early.. at say.. 80000... the car is just about junk.

if they were more repairable or reasonable on cost..
 
Early CVT's weren't very reliable (Subaru Justy, late 90s Civic HX, etc). Some of the newer ones have no dipstick or drain plug and are said to require complicated service procedures.

Honda makes a good CVT now, though. No problems with the 9th gen Accord. It feels seamless and smooth. It is also very easy to service.
 
I'm a member of a Facebook group dedicated to the Nissan Altima, and there's multiple posts everyday about the CVT in even the newer 2016 and up models. Failures left and right. One of the group admins is a tech at a Nissan dealer, and he said between 1/4-1/3 of his workload is warranty claims on CVT transmissions. He posted a picture a few months ago of two 2019 Altimas and a 2019 Maxima next to each other on lifts in the shop all for CVT issues.

Perhaps Honda and Toyota have better luck with them. I personally have not looked into them enough to find out.
 
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