Why Royal Enfield is Destroying Harley Davidson

I'll go against the tide here:

- Who was doing everything right that Harley was doing wrong?
Victory motorcycles, now Indian. They even had accessible models.

- Where are Indian now?
Sold to some equity firm. Some say this is the beginning of something new and amazing (Mike Kennedy was named as the new Indian CEO, he was at Vance & Hines, then at Harley for 25+ years), some say it's the beginning of the end. One way or the other, Polaris deemed it smart to get rid of them, after building Victory motorcycles from scratch into something amazing.

To me this is proof that even companies that were doing Harley's job right (we agree that Harley didn't) were in trouble.

I got a drive around lake Saguarro in Arizona yesterday - beautiful Saturday, plenty of vehicles on the road - I did see three motorcycles. Two cafe racer sport twins of some sorts (passed us too fast to tell), and one big beautiful KLR 650 (the guy complimented us on our 1989 Chevy Beretta at the red light).

What else did I see? An endless stream of Polaris UTVs. Funny they drive on the road here. This is where the money is.

Now, for the blasphemy: I have always respected HD for their history and what they did for motorcycling, I never considered them bikes I'd touch with a ten foot pole. All of them, except for the V-Rod, which was amazing (but I hear many "purists" consider it a non-Harley).

A bike where my feet have to stand ahead of my spine (where I can not soak the bumps with my legs but have them all passed directly to my spine) and where the handlebars are sky high is not a bike to me, it's a hop on hop off thing for 20 miles trips. Yes, the big electras and whatnot are probably still comfortable, but they've never been my thing looks-wise.

Royal Enfield is simply making accessible simple motorcycles the right way. Their success is not connected to Harley's issues. Should they decide to make $20k bikes exclusively, and/or burn half a billion to spin an electric motorcycle brand that sells electric motorcycles that cost $30k - they'd get in trouble too.
 
Forgot one little detail:

The absolutely gorgeous RE Guerrilla 450 is a $5300 motorcycle.
Actually - it is not. It is between $2900 and $3200 in India, depending on the trim.
Given that labor is not everything in a bike - you're getting the metal and hardware of a $2900 bike, not of a $5k one.
There could of course be subtle differences (not sure what tires and suspension come in India vs US spec), but well - it's a $3k bike.

Harley lists a decently nice 2026 Nightster as their cheapest offering on their website, at $9999.
It looks decent to me, and if I was in the market for something similar - I'd consider it. It would look to me like good value.

Then I'll see that the Orange paint is a $1200 option, which will immediately scratch the whole brand from the list for me. Because if someone has enough gall to ask me for $1200 for a factory paint job that between the gas tank, two side covers and mudguard covers the equivalent of a three gallon gas can - how do I know what else they are fleecing me on?

They would have been smarter to just make the base model close to $11k, or to not offer any premium paint options, leaving those for the next model up.
 
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carviewsonic said:
I rented a Street Glide from Eagle Riders for a couple days, a few years ago in Sedona Az. Always wanted try out a Harley, kind of a bucket list thing. I’ve ridden Japanese bikes since high school.
I was age 58 at the time, and was told that if the Street Glide came back with any new scratches or damage “that you and me are gonna have some words”. Whatever that meant. This was after dropping $100’s of dollars for the rental and full insurance.
Maybe not fair, but that attitude turned me right off of Harley’s all together.
Click to expand...
Isn’t that what the insurance is for?
Why the heck would someone verbally abuse a customer? SMH….
 
Harley corporate tells these dealers they have to build these palaces, half the floor space has to be parts and merchandise.

I bought my 2021 Royal Enfield from my local Harley dealer because they had the RE franchise. I was sticker shocked when they wanted $400 for the 300 mile break in service. I did it myself.
 
last June I went to a nearby Harley Davidson dealer, to look at and ride their bikes during a demo-day event. I rode there on my old hot-rodded Sportbike. I rode several bikes. They had all my info, and never bothered to get back to me with an answer to the OTD prices I requested on a couple of bikes.

I've owned an FLHTCUI in the past, and have ridden most of their model range. I can find something to like about most bikes.

We have 7 motorcycles at the moment, adding another wouldn't be a problem. I guess they didn't take me seriously, or maybe they didn't actually care to sell a bike. They had a showroom full, unlike 25 years ago when buyers were on waiting lists...
 
HD is like a luxury car dealer, that has a product with very expensive service and parts, and a product that depreciates very fast.

If you want a HD, just buy one that is 5-10 years old, well taken care of by previous owner(s) and they have taken the big depreciation hit.
 
carviewsonic said:
I rented a Street Glide from Eagle Riders for a couple days, a few years ago in Sedona Az. Always wanted try out a Harley, kind of a bucket list thing. I’ve ridden Japanese bikes since high school.
I was age 58 at the time, and was told that if the Street Glide came back with any new scratches or damage “that you and me are gonna have some words”. Whatever that meant. This was after dropping $100’s of dollars for the rental and full insurance.
Maybe not fair, but that attitude turned me right off of Harley’s all together.
Click to expand...

You should've told him that you'd bring it back without new scratches or damage, but you couldn't guarantee it wouldn't have a new leak. You can't help that they rattle themselves apart.
 
carviewsonic said:
I rented a Street Glide from Eagle Riders for a couple days, a few years ago in Sedona Az. Always wanted try out a Harley, kind of a bucket list thing. I’ve ridden Japanese bikes since high school.
I was age 58 at the time, and was told that if the Street Glide came back with any new scratches or damage “that you and me are gonna have some words”. Whatever that meant. This was after dropping $100’s of dollars for the rental and full insurance.
Maybe not fair, but that attitude turned me right off of Harley’s all together.
Click to expand...

So the dealer was a jerk, what did you think of the bike?
 
Harleys are for old guys. HD failed to attract young buyers. Young people dont like Harleys, they dont really like things like Bourbon, or Cigars........lots of things catered to the older generation will slowly die off if they dont pivot to what the younger folks are looking for. You either get on the train, or get ran over.....
 
I read a couple of articles that basically say that the entire motorcycle industry is in a serious downturn.
.... and the used market is seriously sloth right now.

I really want a new Harley Street Bob but I'd have to sell a couple of my bikes - and they're not worth spit right now.
 
AZjeff said:
So the dealer was a jerk, what did you think of the bike?
Click to expand...
I was riding a VStar 1300 at the time, so in comparision = The Harley really impressed on the highway, effortless torque and a very smooth stable ride. In the twisties though, that extra +/- 200 lbs and longer wheelbase made it a chore to ride compared to the VStar I was used to. Other than shaking at idle, the Harley's engine was surprisingly smooth.
A Heritage Classic is lighter and has a shorter wheelbase than the Street Glide, and probably would have been comparable to the VStar in the twisties.
 
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FranklinJL said:
Harleys are for old guys. HD failed to attract young buyers...
Click to expand...
They are, and HD never had to attract young buyers.

They had it golden with their clients being pre-retiree empty nesters or fresh retirees that have been dreaming of Harleys their whole lives not being able to afford them. Retirees are a wealthy bracket, they don't torture the machinery, they are the perfect client.

That people nowadays retire at ages where their joints squeak more than their bikes, and that empty nesters don't have disposable income because their kids are not fully operational yet and have to be helped (unless their American dream is to buy their first house at age 50) is not something HD could change or fix.

What they could change or fix was to NOT spend half a bil or more on a new brand of electric motorcycles that couldn't sell even in theory.
As much as I respect EVs and think they can fill many needs better than ICE vehicles for the right people, an electric road motorcycle is as useful as a pimple on a butt to pretty much anyone interested in bikes.
 
FranklinJL said:
Harleys are for old guys. HD failed to attract young buyers. Young people dont like Harleys,
Click to expand...
I agree. The SouthPark episode 20 years ago completely summed up what pop culture thought of Harley. Harley chose to continue along the same declining path and here they are.
kballowe said:
I read a couple of articles that basically say that the entire motorcycle industry is in a serious downturn.
Click to expand...
IIHS - says there are more motorcycles registered now than ever. There data goes back 20 years.

https://www.iihs.org/api/datastoredocument/bibliography/2288
 
I think it's important to mention that a big part of the reason they failed was how other Harley riders treated (and often, still treat) entry level Harley riders and any non-Harley riders. I'd say about half of Harley riders I pass don't wave. I go out of my way to even wave to Scooter riders- they are on two wheels and putting their lives in danger as much as I am, so that's worthy of respect.
K.Aoi said:
But a lot (not all, of course) of Harley guys still think you aren't riding a Harley, and it isn't a road king or street glide you aren't riding "a real bike" and sneer at you. Saying it's cringe culture is an understatement, a lot of those guys have actively driven off anyone who might even have been interested but couldn't afford, or want, a 900lb behemoth. I have met plenty of nice, cool Harley riders but the percentage of jerks is definitely much higher than other brands.

(full disclosure since sig isn't here, I own a 2021 RE INT650 and love it, but I also love Yamaha, Honda, etc)
Click to expand...

My experience the last 30 years of owning Harley started off with a bit of attitude from those early Harley dealers.
Back in the 90's an employee actually barked at me " DON"T TOUCH THE BIKES " as I touched a bike!

After my Harley purchase I feel my local shop had to actually get to know me and took a good year to accept me but turned out to be some life long friends. Back then it did have a "exclusive club" vibe, and I think thats what many folks were looking for I guess as back then only a small amount of people purchased Harley.

I make no excuses of someone not being nice but thats just not my Harley owner experience as 99.9 % I find Harley folks fantastic people.

However, I find many of the new Harley Mega Dealers employees, ( Limited to the Sales / Sales management department, NOT parts, Service or Clothing ) Some of those sales management folks are the scum of the earth! Many Harley sales folks don't even ride a Harley and are not true Harley people IMO!

My mama raised me to me nice to everyone and thats what I do. I always throw a left hand out as I pass ANY motorcycle!
Scooters, not as much as in my area Scooters are reserved for the glassy eyed, red nose drunks that lost his or her license and never wave back as those folks are holding on tight with both hands trying to not fall over ...

Less face it, going back to the 40's or 50's riding a American Made ( perhaps British made too ) motorbike attracted that "Rebel without a cause" group of people that may be a bit "ruff around the edges" so you will see some of that but I see very little.

A Hells Angel don't ride a HONDA or a Royal Enfield but me riding a Harley does NOT associate me or the other 99% with a Motor Cycle club or makes me a not friendly person.

99.9% of Harley owners I run across form a local bike night, to a Spring Rally to some guy pumping gas beside me are simply GOOD people! Perhaps more old school Conservative, Salt Of The Earth, Hard working, God fearing, Bible believing, Freedom Loving, Fine American kind of people people and that fits my style just fine.

I have personally know some Church Members that will sneer at you and will make a point to actively drive someone away.
As a Church Member and Christian myself and a Harley rider I can say 100% you got bad apples and nasty people in every group.

Want to be treated bad? Do what I did, Walk into my local Indian and Royal Enfield dealer with my Harley Bar and Shield shirt on.
I was greeted with attitude, sneers, cringe culture unkind remarks from a jerk staff member.

But I have this thing called "skin" its kinda tuff and thick and I don't base my day or bike choice on what someone else does or does not do.
 
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