Demand is down considerably here in the U.S., and yet the price just keeps going up. Since the oil companies are only concerned with making top dollar for their product (which is evident by them exporting gas), why not change the tax laws so that all crude oil products produced here are sold only in this country? After all, if we've made an effort as a country to reduce our consumption, shouldn't we reap the benefits of lower prices?
Why not reward our lower demand with lower prices?
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Originally Posted By: grampi
Demand is down considerably here in the U.S., and yet the price just keeps going up. Since the oil companies are only concerned with making top dollar for their product (which is evident by them exporting gas), why not change the tax laws so that all crude oil products produced here are sold only in this country? After all, if we've made an effort as a country to reduce our consumption, shouldn't we reap the benefits of lower prices?
Nah...makes too much sense.
John
Demand is down considerably here in the U.S., and yet the price just keeps going up. Since the oil companies are only concerned with making top dollar for their product (which is evident by them exporting gas), why not change the tax laws so that all crude oil products produced here are sold only in this country? After all, if we've made an effort as a country to reduce our consumption, shouldn't we reap the benefits of lower prices?
Nah...makes too much sense.
John
I'd be interested in the links documenting what is exported. I know we export finished motor oils and high sulfur diesel, but haven't seen any other references. Does anyone have links?
The biggest issue is that we often re-export oil after refining that wasn't pulled out of the ground here. Some of the stuff we export is also not legal to sell here...
Supply and demand is a difficult foe to overcome. The end result would be a subsidence in the supply until prices equalized and an even worse tax/excise structure than exists already.
The biggest issue is that we often re-export oil after refining that wasn't pulled out of the ground here. Some of the stuff we export is also not legal to sell here...
Supply and demand is a difficult foe to overcome. The end result would be a subsidence in the supply until prices equalized and an even worse tax/excise structure than exists already.
not the american way,
oil companies and speculators are not our friends,no new refineries,can`t keep up with demand in china!! natural gas vehicles could help slow rising prices,but no companies will mass produce. cleaner fuel,less maintenence,and longer oil change intervals. everyone wins!
oil companies and speculators are not our friends,no new refineries,can`t keep up with demand in china!! natural gas vehicles could help slow rising prices,but no companies will mass produce. cleaner fuel,less maintenence,and longer oil change intervals. everyone wins!
Same goes for home heating oil. Were having the warmest winter in about ten years, so why is oil still almost $4.00 a gallon when demand is low?.,,
IMO...most feel that Oil is a commodity that does not have an infinite existence or supply.
Therefore, if the cost of energy and fuel goes up....so does the cost of obtaining crude.
Therefore, if the cost of energy and fuel goes up....so does the cost of obtaining crude.
It's a global market. Any protectionist policy will have unexpected negative response.
Plus, even though since 2008 our oil production has increased and our reliance on foreign oil has decreased, we still import about 35% of our oil consumption. So unless, we cover 100% of our oil demand, banning oil exports will achieve nothing.
The key to all this is to reduce our economic reliance on oil, period. But good luck with that.
Plus, even though since 2008 our oil production has increased and our reliance on foreign oil has decreased, we still import about 35% of our oil consumption. So unless, we cover 100% of our oil demand, banning oil exports will achieve nothing.
The key to all this is to reduce our economic reliance on oil, period. But good luck with that.
JHZR2
Staff member
Last I checked oil companies were a business. You have two ways to make money, move a lot of product at a low price (or a high price), or move less product at a higher price with a higher profit margin.
Seems they are taking the second.
Seems they are taking the second.
Originally Posted By: wog
not the american way,
oil companies and speculators are not our friends,no new refineries,can`t keep up with demand in china!! natural gas vehicles could help slow rising prices,but no companies will mass produce. cleaner fuel,less maintenence,and longer oil change intervals. everyone wins!
There would be a huge impact on prices if we had more alternative powered vehilces. Just think of what gas prices would be if we had CNG powered, electric, solar powered, and nuclear powered vehicles to choose from, and they were all affordable. Can you say 50 cent gas?
not the american way,
oil companies and speculators are not our friends,no new refineries,can`t keep up with demand in china!! natural gas vehicles could help slow rising prices,but no companies will mass produce. cleaner fuel,less maintenence,and longer oil change intervals. everyone wins!
There would be a huge impact on prices if we had more alternative powered vehilces. Just think of what gas prices would be if we had CNG powered, electric, solar powered, and nuclear powered vehicles to choose from, and they were all affordable. Can you say 50 cent gas?
I'm assuming the OP realizes that oil is traded on a worldwide basis. Has demand also fallen worldwide at the same time demand has fallen in the US? Not quite as simple as most would like the answer to be.
Originally Posted By: CivicFan
It's a global market. Any protectionist policy will have unexpected negative response.
Plus, even though since 2008 our oil production has increased and our reliance on foreign oil has decreased, we still import about 35% of our oil consumption. So unless, we cover 100% of our oil demand, banning oil exports will achieve nothing.
The key to all this is to reduce our economic reliance on oil, period. But good luck with that.
I don't agree. If the oil companies were putting what they're exporting into our own supplies, our gas prices would be going down instead of up...
It's a global market. Any protectionist policy will have unexpected negative response.
Plus, even though since 2008 our oil production has increased and our reliance on foreign oil has decreased, we still import about 35% of our oil consumption. So unless, we cover 100% of our oil demand, banning oil exports will achieve nothing.
The key to all this is to reduce our economic reliance on oil, period. But good luck with that.
I don't agree. If the oil companies were putting what they're exporting into our own supplies, our gas prices would be going down instead of up...
When those can compete on price, they will make their appearances. CNG is getting extensive reviews now in fleet usage (like garbage truck and bus fleets) where its price at half that of diesel can overcome the extensive up front costs.
Originally Posted By: MNgopher
I'm assuming the OP realizes that oil is traded on a worldwide basis. Has demand also fallen worldwide at the same time demand has fallen in the US? Not quite as simple as most would like the answer to be.
I think you missed my point. If all the supply of what is being produced here was only sold here, our prices would be going down, even considering that world demand isn't decreasing...
I'm assuming the OP realizes that oil is traded on a worldwide basis. Has demand also fallen worldwide at the same time demand has fallen in the US? Not quite as simple as most would like the answer to be.
I think you missed my point. If all the supply of what is being produced here was only sold here, our prices would be going down, even considering that world demand isn't decreasing...
There is a misconception/myth that the US oil companies are now refining domestic oil for export in order to keep gas prices high.
The truth is the US imports over half its oil needs and essentially all of the refined products that are exported are made from imported oil.
Nobody complains if we import aluminum and make planes for export, but they cry bloody murder if oil companies import oil and sell upgraded products to foreign countries it at a profit.
Blocking the export of refined products from the US will result in the loss of refineries, jobs, taxes and hard currency earnings. It will do nothing to lower the long term price of gasoline. It could even decrease the world supply of refined products and therefore raise the price of gas.
The truth is the US imports over half its oil needs and essentially all of the refined products that are exported are made from imported oil.
Nobody complains if we import aluminum and make planes for export, but they cry bloody murder if oil companies import oil and sell upgraded products to foreign countries it at a profit.
Blocking the export of refined products from the US will result in the loss of refineries, jobs, taxes and hard currency earnings. It will do nothing to lower the long term price of gasoline. It could even decrease the world supply of refined products and therefore raise the price of gas.
If you are a company, why would you sell a product here at a lower price when you can sell it abroad at a higher price? And why would you sell ANY product here at a loss?
The reason that the price of gasoline is where it's at is a function of supply and demand.
Markets must clear, and it happens that the current supply clears at a higher price than did the supply of a few weeks ago.
In other words, supply is lower, so demand must be lower as well.
The mechanism that accomplishes this is called price.
There is lower demand because prices are higher, and prices must be higher because supply is lower.
It isn't a matter of lower latent demand, it's a matter of lower felt demand.
There is no conspiracy, and there isn't enough production available in this country to supply all of our demand.
There also won't be, however many wells are drilled, since the unexploited oil still available here is either more expensive than current market to produce, or can only be recovered at very low rates, or both.
Markets must clear, and it happens that the current supply clears at a higher price than did the supply of a few weeks ago.
In other words, supply is lower, so demand must be lower as well.
The mechanism that accomplishes this is called price.
There is lower demand because prices are higher, and prices must be higher because supply is lower.
It isn't a matter of lower latent demand, it's a matter of lower felt demand.
There is no conspiracy, and there isn't enough production available in this country to supply all of our demand.
There also won't be, however many wells are drilled, since the unexploited oil still available here is either more expensive than current market to produce, or can only be recovered at very low rates, or both.
Well said, Burt.
If we put up a naval blockade and shut down every pipeline, crude and refined, we would run out of oil quickly.
There are lots of things relating to our foreign trade balance with china, the world value of the dollar, "friendly" nations we support through clenched teeth, that we would correct if we didn't have to buy petroleum on the world market.
If we put up a naval blockade and shut down every pipeline, crude and refined, we would run out of oil quickly.
There are lots of things relating to our foreign trade balance with china, the world value of the dollar, "friendly" nations we support through clenched teeth, that we would correct if we didn't have to buy petroleum on the world market.
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: MNgopher
I'm assuming the OP realizes that oil is traded on a worldwide basis. Has demand also fallen worldwide at the same time demand has fallen in the US? Not quite as simple as most would like the answer to be.
I think you missed my point. If all the supply of what is being produced here was only sold here, our prices would be going down, even considering that world demand isn't decreasing...
Actually you have it backwards, since the U.S. is a net importer of oil it does not matter what kind of crazy schemes you concoct, you wont be able to lower gas prices. In fact if you create inefficiencies with rules such as this the price will actually go up.
Originally Posted By: MNgopher
I'm assuming the OP realizes that oil is traded on a worldwide basis. Has demand also fallen worldwide at the same time demand has fallen in the US? Not quite as simple as most would like the answer to be.
I think you missed my point. If all the supply of what is being produced here was only sold here, our prices would be going down, even considering that world demand isn't decreasing...
Actually you have it backwards, since the U.S. is a net importer of oil it does not matter what kind of crazy schemes you concoct, you wont be able to lower gas prices. In fact if you create inefficiencies with rules such as this the price will actually go up.
Originally Posted By: grampi
If the oil companies were putting what they're exporting into our own supplies, our gas prices would be going down instead of up...
They'd be refining it in Singapore, and selling itin Asia, and US prices would be exactly the same...albeit, the U.S. companies seem to be taking it a little easier on you guys than in the colonies.
If the oil companies were putting what they're exporting into our own supplies, our gas prices would be going down instead of up...
They'd be refining it in Singapore, and selling itin Asia, and US prices would be exactly the same...albeit, the U.S. companies seem to be taking it a little easier on you guys than in the colonies.
Originally Posted By: Burt
There is a misconception/myth that the US oil companies are now refining domestic oil for export in order to keep gas prices high.
The truth is the US imports over half its oil needs and essentially all of the refined products that are exported are made from imported oil.
True, but it's also true that U.S. oil companies are exporting products that refined here, and if price is determined by supply and demand, then keeping all that's refined here and selling it only in the U.S. would increase our supply, therefore bringing down our price.
There is a misconception/myth that the US oil companies are now refining domestic oil for export in order to keep gas prices high.
The truth is the US imports over half its oil needs and essentially all of the refined products that are exported are made from imported oil.
True, but it's also true that U.S. oil companies are exporting products that refined here, and if price is determined by supply and demand, then keeping all that's refined here and selling it only in the U.S. would increase our supply, therefore bringing down our price.
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