Someone just posted $4.99 M1 at O'Reilly Auto Parts! It is on their website as well as PP 5qt w/ Wix filter for $25.99! Man, I thought prices were supposed to be going up.
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Why not 0W-30 Syn for all?
- Thread starter Indydriver
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You could.
I have.
The two widely available 0W-30s are GC and M1.
They are very different oils.
The M1 has HTHS of 2.99.
The GC has HTHS of >3.5.
Mobil gives us the HTHS of their 0w30 in their PDS.
Castrol isn't so helpful, but given the Euro specs that GC meets, it has a minimum HTHS of 3.5.
What I am trying to demonstrate is that it isn't as simple as selecting an SAE grade.
You could probably use either 0w30 with good results.
One is quite thin, though, and the other is pretty thick.
One probably has more Grp IV than the other, if you care, although neither Castrol (BP) nor Mobil actually tell us what basestocks they use in any of their finished oils.
I have.
The two widely available 0W-30s are GC and M1.
They are very different oils.
The M1 has HTHS of 2.99.
The GC has HTHS of >3.5.
Mobil gives us the HTHS of their 0w30 in their PDS.
Castrol isn't so helpful, but given the Euro specs that GC meets, it has a minimum HTHS of 3.5.
What I am trying to demonstrate is that it isn't as simple as selecting an SAE grade.
You could probably use either 0w30 with good results.
One is quite thin, though, and the other is pretty thick.
One probably has more Grp IV than the other, if you care, although neither Castrol (BP) nor Mobil actually tell us what basestocks they use in any of their finished oils.
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
You could.
I have.
The two widely available 0W-30s are GC and M1.
They are very different oils.
The M1 has HTHS of 2.99.
The GC has HTHS of >3.5.
Mobil gives us the HTHS of their 0w30 in their PDS.
Castrol isn't so helpful, but given the Euro specs that GC meets, it has a minimum HTHS of 3.5.
What I am trying to demonstrate is that it isn't as simple as selecting an SAE grade.
You could probably use either 0w30 with good results.
One is quite thin, though, and the other is pretty thick.
One probably has more Grp IV than the other, if you care, although neither Castrol (BP) nor Mobil actually tell us what basestocks they use in any of their finished oils.
The HTHS for Mobil 1 0w30 is 3.09.
You could.
I have.
The two widely available 0W-30s are GC and M1.
They are very different oils.
The M1 has HTHS of 2.99.
The GC has HTHS of >3.5.
Mobil gives us the HTHS of their 0w30 in their PDS.
Castrol isn't so helpful, but given the Euro specs that GC meets, it has a minimum HTHS of 3.5.
What I am trying to demonstrate is that it isn't as simple as selecting an SAE grade.
You could probably use either 0w30 with good results.
One is quite thin, though, and the other is pretty thick.
One probably has more Grp IV than the other, if you care, although neither Castrol (BP) nor Mobil actually tell us what basestocks they use in any of their finished oils.
The HTHS for Mobil 1 0w30 is 3.09.
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: Indydriver
I've been looking for M1 but a lot of the parts stores around here don't carry it. Please share your knowledge of the variations.
If you have a Walmart, they sell it in the 5 QT jug. AZ,AAP,also o-30.
We are talking about 0w30 here.
Originally Posted By: Indydriver
I've been looking for M1 but a lot of the parts stores around here don't carry it. Please share your knowledge of the variations.
If you have a Walmart, they sell it in the 5 QT jug. AZ,AAP,also o-30.
We are talking about 0w30 here.
Originally Posted By: Indydriver
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: Indydriver
I've been looking for M1 but a lot of the parts stores around here don't carry it. Please share your knowledge of the variations.
If you have a Walmart, they sell it in the 5 QT jug. AZ,AAP,also o-30.
We are talking about 0w30 here.
Yes, Mobil 1 0w30 in the jug at Walmart($24.50) and most all national parts chains have it as well in the qt bottles.
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: Indydriver
I've been looking for M1 but a lot of the parts stores around here don't carry it. Please share your knowledge of the variations.
If you have a Walmart, they sell it in the 5 QT jug. AZ,AAP,also o-30.
We are talking about 0w30 here.
Yes, Mobil 1 0w30 in the jug at Walmart($24.50) and most all national parts chains have it as well in the qt bottles.
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
You could.
One probably has more Grp IV than the other, if you care, although neither Castrol (BP) nor Mobil actually tell us what basestocks they use in any of their finished oils.
Which one do you believe has more PAO?
You could.
One probably has more Grp IV than the other, if you care, although neither Castrol (BP) nor Mobil actually tell us what basestocks they use in any of their finished oils.
Which one do you believe has more PAO?
You can forget about GC. Due to it's lowish 167 VI even Mobil 1 0W-40 (VI 185) is lighter at temp's as high as 25C.
Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0w30 is the lightest 30wt oil on the market currently.
$24.50/jug at Walmart is a pretty good price.
Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0w30 is the lightest 30wt oil on the market currently.
$24.50/jug at Walmart is a pretty good price.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: NYSteve
Originally Posted By: Indydriver
Assuming cost isn't an issue, couldn't you say 'Why not use Red Line 5w20 in everything?'
Well you're right about one thing, Red Line 5W-20 with it's HTHS vis of 3.3cP is definitely a 30wt oil. Problem is, with it's VI of only 145 that makes it probabily the worst syn value out there with the exception of Red Line's 10w30 (VI 142).
Wow...why is the VI so bad for Red Line?
Originally Posted By: NYSteve
Originally Posted By: Indydriver
Assuming cost isn't an issue, couldn't you say 'Why not use Red Line 5w20 in everything?'
Well you're right about one thing, Red Line 5W-20 with it's HTHS vis of 3.3cP is definitely a 30wt oil. Problem is, with it's VI of only 145 that makes it probabily the worst syn value out there with the exception of Red Line's 10w30 (VI 142).
Wow...why is the VI so bad for Red Line?
Originally Posted By: NYSteve
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: NYSteve
Originally Posted By: Indydriver
Assuming cost isn't an issue, couldn't you say 'Why not use Red Line 5w20 in everything?'
Well you're right about one thing, Red Line 5W-20 with it's HTHS vis of 3.3cP is definitely a 30wt oil. Problem is, with it's VI of only 145 that makes it probabily the worst syn value out there with the exception of Red Line's 10w30 (VI 142).
Wow...why is the VI so bad for Red Line?
Red Line doesn't use viscosity index improvers in most of their oils, so their VI comes purely from the base stocks they use. A 145VI with no viscosity index improvers, and yet extremely low volatility is pretty impressive.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: NYSteve
Originally Posted By: Indydriver
Assuming cost isn't an issue, couldn't you say 'Why not use Red Line 5w20 in everything?'
Well you're right about one thing, Red Line 5W-20 with it's HTHS vis of 3.3cP is definitely a 30wt oil. Problem is, with it's VI of only 145 that makes it probabily the worst syn value out there with the exception of Red Line's 10w30 (VI 142).
Wow...why is the VI so bad for Red Line?
Red Line doesn't use viscosity index improvers in most of their oils, so their VI comes purely from the base stocks they use. A 145VI with no viscosity index improvers, and yet extremely low volatility is pretty impressive.
No Mobil 1 0w30 jugs in this market anywhere. I just got back from O'Reilly-- they had 1 qt on the shelf! Zero jugs. They did allow me to order a case at the sale price of $4.99 (best price I've seen). They also have 5 qt PP with Wix filter for $25.99--$2 bucks better than the AZ deal that expires Sunday. No PP jugs either. It appears to me that Pennzoil is helping their dealers blow out all the SM stock so they can bring in the new stuff. All this PP is SM, G-4 oil, but I'll take it.
I've decided that I'm going to try the Mobil 1 in just one of these outdoor Mopar 3.5s (probably the older 300M) and stick with Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 in the Intrepid. The owner's manual calls for 10w30 for above 0 degree operation and 5w30 for freezing to below zero.
I've decided that I'm going to try the Mobil 1 in just one of these outdoor Mopar 3.5s (probably the older 300M) and stick with Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 in the Intrepid. The owner's manual calls for 10w30 for above 0 degree operation and 5w30 for freezing to below zero.
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Next to RL's 10w30 their 5W-20 is their least "impressive" oil.
RL's 0W-20 has a VI of 166, also achieved without the aid of VII's. If you want to use a true 20wt oil that's your only RL choice.
RL's 0w30 has a VI of 183 and it uses very little in the way VII's. It has proven to be a very shear stable oil. It's lighter than their 5W-20 at all temp's and a whopping 25% or so a 0C.This may be RL's best oil for most applications.
With it's HTHS vis of 3.2cP this oil is heavier than Mobil 1 0w30 (HTHS 3.06cP) at operating temp's but due to it's slightly higher VI no heavier at typical start-up temp's.
The Mobil 1 oil does have a decided advantage at extreme cold temp's due to it's very low MRV of 17,100cP. RL's is a not so impressive
30,000cP. Nevertheless RL's 0w30 is a more expensive, shear stable option if you require a somewhat heavier 30wt oil.
RL's 0W-20 has a VI of 166, also achieved without the aid of VII's. If you want to use a true 20wt oil that's your only RL choice.
RL's 0w30 has a VI of 183 and it uses very little in the way VII's. It has proven to be a very shear stable oil. It's lighter than their 5W-20 at all temp's and a whopping 25% or so a 0C.This may be RL's best oil for most applications.
With it's HTHS vis of 3.2cP this oil is heavier than Mobil 1 0w30 (HTHS 3.06cP) at operating temp's but due to it's slightly higher VI no heavier at typical start-up temp's.
The Mobil 1 oil does have a decided advantage at extreme cold temp's due to it's very low MRV of 17,100cP. RL's is a not so impressive
30,000cP. Nevertheless RL's 0w30 is a more expensive, shear stable option if you require a somewhat heavier 30wt oil.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Next to RL's 10w30 their 5W-20 is their least "impressive" oil.
RL's 0W-20 has a VI of 166, also achieved without the aid of VII's. If you want to use a true 20wt oil that's your only RL choice.
RL's 0w30 has a VI of 183 and it uses very little in the way VII's. It has proven to be a very shear stable oil. It's lighter than their 5W-20 at all temp's and a whopping 25% or so a 0C.This may be RL's best oil for most applications.
With it's HTHS vis of 3.2cP this oil is heavier than Mobil 1 0w30 (HTHS 3.06cP) at operating temp's but due to it's slightly higher VI no heavier at typical start-up temp's.
The Mobil 1 oil does have a decided advantage at extreme cold temp's due to it's very low MRV of 17,100cP. RL's is a not so impressive
30,000cP. Nevertheless RL's 0w30 is a more expensive, shear stable option if you require a somewhat heavier 30wt oil.
Thanks for the detailed info. I've been looking at Red Line now as I live downtown and don't drive too often so I would only be changing it once/year. However, give Chicago's weather extremes I wanted a solid year-round oil and looks like the 0w30 will be it.
Next to RL's 10w30 their 5W-20 is their least "impressive" oil.
RL's 0W-20 has a VI of 166, also achieved without the aid of VII's. If you want to use a true 20wt oil that's your only RL choice.
RL's 0w30 has a VI of 183 and it uses very little in the way VII's. It has proven to be a very shear stable oil. It's lighter than their 5W-20 at all temp's and a whopping 25% or so a 0C.This may be RL's best oil for most applications.
With it's HTHS vis of 3.2cP this oil is heavier than Mobil 1 0w30 (HTHS 3.06cP) at operating temp's but due to it's slightly higher VI no heavier at typical start-up temp's.
The Mobil 1 oil does have a decided advantage at extreme cold temp's due to it's very low MRV of 17,100cP. RL's is a not so impressive
30,000cP. Nevertheless RL's 0w30 is a more expensive, shear stable option if you require a somewhat heavier 30wt oil.
Thanks for the detailed info. I've been looking at Red Line now as I live downtown and don't drive too often so I would only be changing it once/year. However, give Chicago's weather extremes I wanted a solid year-round oil and looks like the 0w30 will be it.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
You can forget about GC. Due to it's lowish 167 VI even Mobil 1 0W-40 (VI 185) is lighter at temp's as high as 25C.
Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0w30 is the lightest 30wt oil on the market currently.
$24.50/jug at Walmart is a pretty good price.
Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0w30 is not as light as Castrol Edge 5w30. Edge's 100kV = 9.88
You can forget about GC. Due to it's lowish 167 VI even Mobil 1 0W-40 (VI 185) is lighter at temp's as high as 25C.
Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0w30 is the lightest 30wt oil on the market currently.
$24.50/jug at Walmart is a pretty good price.
Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0w30 is not as light as Castrol Edge 5w30. Edge's 100kV = 9.88
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Originally Posted By: JeremyInMT
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
You can forget about GC. Due to it's lowish 167 VI even Mobil 1 0W-40 (VI 185) is lighter at temp's as high as 25C.
Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0w30 is the lightest 30wt oil on the market currently.
$24.50/jug at Walmart is a pretty good price.
Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0w30 is not as light as Castrol Edge 5w30. Edge's 100kV = 9.88
You're making the classic mistake of comparing kinematic viscosities. Unless the base oil chemistry and VII level is the same with both oils it's not accurate to draw any conclusions from their respective KV100 spec's. What is accurate and takes chemistry and VII levels into account are the HTHS vis spec's of each oil and they can be compared. The following post explains in more detail:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/posts/2001169/
Unfortunately Castrol doesn't provide HTHS figures so we can't tell how light Edge really is from the KV100 spec alone. My best guess is that it has a HTHS vis typical of the 5w30 grade; namely about 3.1cP. One thing we do know is that it's VI of 169.5
is much lower than Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0w30 VI of 180 so there is no question that Mobil 1 will be lighter at all start-up temp's.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
You can forget about GC. Due to it's lowish 167 VI even Mobil 1 0W-40 (VI 185) is lighter at temp's as high as 25C.
Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0w30 is the lightest 30wt oil on the market currently.
$24.50/jug at Walmart is a pretty good price.
Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0w30 is not as light as Castrol Edge 5w30. Edge's 100kV = 9.88
You're making the classic mistake of comparing kinematic viscosities. Unless the base oil chemistry and VII level is the same with both oils it's not accurate to draw any conclusions from their respective KV100 spec's. What is accurate and takes chemistry and VII levels into account are the HTHS vis spec's of each oil and they can be compared. The following post explains in more detail:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/posts/2001169/
Unfortunately Castrol doesn't provide HTHS figures so we can't tell how light Edge really is from the KV100 spec alone. My best guess is that it has a HTHS vis typical of the 5w30 grade; namely about 3.1cP. One thing we do know is that it's VI of 169.5
is much lower than Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0w30 VI of 180 so there is no question that Mobil 1 will be lighter at all start-up temp's.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
You can forget about GC. Due to it's lowish 167 VI even Mobil 1 0W-40 (VI 185) is lighter at temp's as high as 25C.
I'm no GC fanboi but according to the Widman calculator even at 30C GC is 12.5% less viscous. All bets are off below 0C as that's around the point pour point modifiers come into play.
You can forget about GC. Due to it's lowish 167 VI even Mobil 1 0W-40 (VI 185) is lighter at temp's as high as 25C.
I'm no GC fanboi but according to the Widman calculator even at 30C GC is 12.5% less viscous. All bets are off below 0C as that's around the point pour point modifiers come into play.
Your mistaken.
You're using the wrong KV40 and KV100 spec's.
You're using the wrong KV40 and KV100 spec's.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Your mistaken.
You're using the wrong KV40 and KV100 spec's.
Nope.
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_1_0W-40.aspx
http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp_internet/castrol/castrol_usa/STAGING/local_assets/downloads/p,q/pds_syntec_usa.pdf
Your mistaken.
You're using the wrong KV40 and KV100 spec's.
Nope.
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_1_0W-40.aspx
http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp_internet/castrol/castrol_usa/STAGING/local_assets/downloads/p,q/pds_syntec_usa.pdf
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Originally Posted By: teddyboy
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
You could.
One probably has more Grp IV than the other, if you care, although neither Castrol (BP) nor Mobil actually tell us what basestocks they use in any of their finished oils.
Which one do you believe has more PAO?
If I were making a casual wager, I'd bet that GC has a higher proportion of Grp IV than Mobil 1 0W-30.
Since neither BP nor XOM are going to tell us, we'll never really know.
I did write "probably", and maybe should have added "IMHO".
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
You could.
One probably has more Grp IV than the other, if you care, although neither Castrol (BP) nor Mobil actually tell us what basestocks they use in any of their finished oils.
Which one do you believe has more PAO?
If I were making a casual wager, I'd bet that GC has a higher proportion of Grp IV than Mobil 1 0W-30.
Since neither BP nor XOM are going to tell us, we'll never really know.
I did write "probably", and maybe should have added "IMHO".
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