Why don't all manufactures use 0W-XX

[yabadabadoo]

I read "Motor Oil 101" and found it very interesting. I can't help but wonder though if a desired thickness of 10 is a 30 weight oil at 212F and the 0W starts flowing much sooner than 10W why wouldn't everyone use it to save on bearing wear. I have my own thoery but would like to hear from experts.

Thanks

 

[Steve S]

I would have to guess the mfgs did not read oil 101 yet.

 

[d00df00d]

to BITOG!

Basically, it comes down to this:


1. 0w-xx oils are always more expensive, more prone to shear, or both.

2. They aren't always thinner at start-up. It depends on the temperature. For example, a 0w30 might be thinner than a 5w30 in the dead of winter, but the 5w30 might be thinner on a summer morning.


As always, it depends on the application and exactly what oils you're comparing, and the most important stats are often not printed on the bottle.

Did you have a question about a specific application, or was this just general curiosity?

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: Steve S
I would have to guess the mfgs did not read oil 101 yet.

 

[Artem]

Originally Posted By: Steve S
I would have to guess the mfgs did not read oil 101 yet.

 

[Bill in Utah]

Recent thread on same topic

Bill

 

[yabadabadoo]

Thanks Bill, I am researching for my recent 400 build for my old Pontiac. Originally a 40 weight was recommended but I am thinking of going with a 0w30 synthetic with a pint or so of cam break in lube. It would only be 1 oil change per year.

 

[d00df00d]

Who recommended the xw-40?

 

[yabadabadoo]

Pontiac back in `66.

 

[d00df00d]

0w-30 should be fine, if you can find a suitable one. You probably want something like Castrol Syntec 0w30 European Formula.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

I wouldnt use that oil in that car off the bat. Pick a simple dino with lots of moly for break in (like Formula Shell or Havoline DS) Then come back 3000 miles and 2 OCI later for a recommendation. How many years will that be?

 

[bullwinkle]

I would use a HDEO/diesel oil, at least initially, because it's a flat tappet motor-5W40 in winter, 15W40 in hot weather. Unfortunately there aren't many 0W30 HDEOs available in the USA, if you could get your hands on some of the older German Castrol Syntec 0W30 (NOT SM or SN, SL!) it would be a good choice for that motor.

 

[yabadabadoo]

It is basically still breaking in and I ran Rotella 15w40 in it last summer with a pint of Crane break in lube. Was thinking rings should be set now and can go a different route.

 

[Steve S]

I would go with the HDE0 15w40 . Over the past 2 years I put together a 67 GTO that was owned by a high school bud Jim Y. he bought it from the original owner in 1970. About a year later he sold the GTO to Gary C. another high school bud . In 1998 Gary took the car apart to put front discs and a arms on and a resto. 3 years ago he asked me if I wanted it and said no so he gave it to Mark. Mark asked me to help him as he really did not know how to do it . We did the motor not the 383 but a 429 built up to Ram air specs .Last summer it was on the road and the look on Marcs face when he drive the car made it worth helping him and I really enjoyed it. It was a good reminder that todays cars are really cheaply built.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Any lawnmower/tractor oil at your local Home Depot or Lowes would have a classic SH/SJ levels of ZDDP. Another Optionn is Valvoline 10w30 racing thru Autozone. An SAE 40 Diesel oil will rob power from that motor. If your not racing and just cruising then it does not matter, I suppose. Dont forget the Rotella 10w30 triple protect. These are all pretty thick oils compared to current PCMO viscosity.

 

[glum]

Not claiming expertise but I really think there's a good reason, and it's not "lower implied cost of maintenance because 0W requires synthetic oil". 0W has more vismods than 5W, and that's a compromise. No matter how you slice it, it's hard to argue with the people who designed and built your engine.

 

[unDummy]

Its pretty simple. 0w wasn't in the engineering textbook when said engineers were in school. And, they're not keeping up with their continuing education units.

There is nothing wrong with VII/VM's. Problem is, there are low quality and higher quality products out there. And, when everything is purchased on the lowest bid, I'd worry.

SAE bottle label weight is only a spec. When 0w's start meeting other manufacturer requirements, we'll see more recommendations. For example, Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0w30 is GM4718m approved. Any others?
http://www.gm.com/corporate/responsibility/environment/maintenance/gm_approved_engine_oils.pdf

Its up to the oil manufacturers to produce the 0w20 and 0w30 and get them approved for the auto manufacturers specs. Or, you'll just have to wait for the auto enjinears to do it themselves.

 

[glum]

Originally Posted By: unDummy
There is nothing wrong with VII/VM's

So more VII/VM doesn't mean less base oil?

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
yabadabadoo - Yes "101" is interesting theory from an interesting BITOG contributor. Like most theories they are in the end driven by practicalities

Manufacturers must consider a number of things - these amongst them:

Design-Production Engineers and their recommendations
Component suppliers test results and recommendations
Lubricant Engineer's field test results
Geographical locations intended covered
Intended market place application (and supplementary limits)
Supply chains (eg lubricants)

These are but a few - there are many!

Some Manufacturers recommend 0W-?? lubricants and FF them. Others recommend them according to the Ambient spread anticipated - and etc. Porsche has been recommending and FF 0W-40 lubricants for about 12 years now

0W and 5W rated lubricants must have a minimum viscosity of 3.8cSt at 100C. Very few engines would survive very long at this viscosity considering that the most critical viscosity is the Engine?Component Designer's minimum which is usually the HTHS viscosity (cp/mPa-s) at 150C. Generally the minimum engine family dependant HTHS viscosity is 2.6 cP

So in the end it really is the HTHS viscosity that is the critical one IMO (except for cold start requirements) - and this is driven within the ACEA Test protocols by Engine Designers and Manufacturers and from within the SAE J300 Chart when looking at a lubricant's viscosity rating

Read CATERHAMs deliberations on this subject - it is as helpful if not more so than "101"

 

[JustinH]

The main reason is that Joe Public isn't going to spend the bucks for a full synthetic 0W whatever motor oil.

5w30 conventional oil meeting SN spec is roughly 50% the cost, and people aren't too keen on doing extended drains yet either.

Do you think that people are going to like $60-$70 dollar oil changes for their $15000 economy car?