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All I see is more marketing blah blah.. the "boosters" they are talking about are most likely added group 5 base oil since it is great at cleaning deposits, swelling seals, lubricity, film strength etc.
Why isn't High Mileage oil the "standard" oil?
- Thread starter cheesepuffs2
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Does Afton sell base stocks?
OVERKILL
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That's inaccurate. Some use little to any ester content, instead opting for Group I or II for solvency. AN's are a very recent addition to engine oils (outside Mobil), replacing esters in some recent Mobil products, but we've also seen examples of neither being used (current M1 FS 0W-40 for example).
Here's a PAO + Group II+ Mobil blending guide example:
No, most synthetics have no PAO in them at this point in the game, using Group III instead, due to cost.
Not all esters are cleaners, so just because an oil has some ester content does not mean it's a good cleaner.
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Yes, based on what I've read here, I didn't think sys must have PAO or Grp 5. I had also read many posts that some syn had PAO but now they don't. iirc, one of M1 oils (Euro 5W-40?) dropped PAO from SN to SP or Castrol Euro 5W-40 with bunch of Euro approvals (like M1 Euro) has no PAO or something to that effect.
Anyways, I don't pay much attention to the base oils since I chase approvals if any but syn must have PAO raised the red flag.
Anyways, I don't pay much attention to the base oils since I chase approvals if any but syn must have PAO raised the red flag.
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Esters both swell and soften seals. How much may be used (if any) depends on the ester type and PAO content. The formulator decides based on desired balance of performance targets and cost.
I have posted this before, but my work vehicles (Fleet) always got Valvoline Max-Life synthetic blend High Mileage oil every 5K. From brand new, up to 100K when we would get a different vehicle. Only car that ever blew the engine was the Ford Fusion, but it had nothing to do with the oil used.
HM from day 1 isn't an issue. Now, is it beneficial? No idea. I certainly wouldn't pay extra for it.
HM from day 1 isn't an issue. Now, is it beneficial? No idea. I certainly wouldn't pay extra for it.
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Group 3 is not a true synthetic base oil, it is mineral based. However, companies are legally allowed to market synthetics containing group 3 as "fully synthetic" because they are now refined enough to have similar viscosity index properties as a real synthetic group4/5. It is deceptive marketing at best and really just false advertising.
It's synthesized, so why isn't synthetic?
"Legally allowed". Was this part of the Castrol court decision?
OVERKILL
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In invite you to re-read what you wrote:
Evo9isLife said:
Since the conversation about an oil being labelled as synthetic vs what it's blended with is wholly separate from your statement.
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Reading this entire Q&A on synthetics I think knowing which synthetic type or grade can actually help in your type of need. Full synthetic or synthetic blend marketing sounds like I cannot afford full synthetic but I can afford some synthetic mixed in conventional oils. Depending on what your after out of your engine most people don't keep vehicles till 300K miles so oil life & frequency is important. Performance oils create less friction quicker to max RPM longer stability in viscosity in extreme conditions. Name brands are always better than off brands, Store name brands I.E. Generic. I've always been a fan of Castrol, our grocery getter Honda was nearing its end with us only because of comfort. I had planned on 1000 mile trip and needing oil changed I used Walmarts syntec brand. After the trip the valves(OHC solid) were rattling. Only 80K miles my valves shouldn't need adjusting? I had the same trip again changed the oil again but with Castrol after the trip no valve clatter. Walmart syntec brand is crap to say the least. My point is driving conditions and how long your keeping the vehicle should be a factor in what oils you use. Putting $50-$60 a jug synthetic in a short lease car is a choice not a need to.
“Walmart syntec brand is crap” you day? What is that exactly?
I’m a little confused as to how the base oil composition causes valve rattling. What do you think caused that?
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Somebody give me an example of a "subpar oil", in a 0w20 or 0w16.
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This is a marketing strategy to occupy as much shelf space as possible. There's no need for about 75% of the products on the shelf except to make it so when you reach for a product, there's more real estate of their product to grab. It's why sodas come in 1L, 2L, mini can 6 packs, mini can 12 packs, regular 6 packs, 16oz four packs, 12 pack regular, 24 pack regular, etc sizes. Repeat this for diet, stevia, vanilla flavored, pumpkin spice seasonal flavored etc. Now the entire aisle is dominated by 3 manufacturers and there's no space for anyone else.
How many times has this question been asked?
The definition of full synthetic oil is different in different countries. In Europe, GTL (Shell and Pennzoil ultra Plat) can be labeled as Full Synthetic, just like PAO from some Ravenol or Amsoil. But not group III, it must be labeled as synthetic or HC synthetic or semisynthetic. In the US, GTL is considered to be group III by API, and we do not appreciate enough to GTL.
I cannot find any high mileage oil in european market. We only have HC synthetic and full synthetic (PAO or GTL) AFAIK.
I cannot find any high mileage oil in european market. We only have HC synthetic and full synthetic (PAO or GTL) AFAIK.
No. Not “Europe”, only Germany. All the world except Germany can label a hydrocracked base as synthetic, since it is synthesized. The fact that it is derived from a GTL process is irrelevant.
GTL base stocks are Group III and are hydrocracked. The API has nothing to do with the definition of a synthetic base stock.
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The forbiden word is Fully Synthetic or Vollsynthetisches öl, that is exclusive for GTL or PAO oil. Group III are always labeled as HC Synthetic or Synthetic in Europe, not just Germany. Big brands like Castrol, Mobil, Aral, Total, Shell, Adinol, Fuchs, Liquimoly, Motul, etc. follow this rule.
Gen III or hydrocracked base is not synthethized, it is from mineral oil that is saturated with Hydrogen to make it more stable in addition to chopping longer carbon chains. The quality depends on the source of the mineral base oil itself. I emailed the Oil maker directly and ask if their oil is group III or group IV, they usually answered and saying group III or semisynthetic.
The GTL and PAO are made from smaller building blocks, like LEGO, the opposite of Hydrocracked process. However, at the end for us is about the effective performance. Most group III oil perform almost as good as group IV and GTL with the right formulations and additives.
From Virgin oil analysis, GTL oil (Shell/Pennzoil Ultra Platinum) needs less additives than non GTL version. Base oil is more stable than additives.
Gen III or hydrocracked base is not synthethized, it is from mineral oil that is saturated with Hydrogen to make it more stable in addition to chopping longer carbon chains. The quality depends on the source of the mineral base oil itself. I emailed the Oil maker directly and ask if their oil is group III or group IV, they usually answered and saying group III or semisynthetic.
The GTL and PAO are made from smaller building blocks, like LEGO, the opposite of Hydrocracked process. However, at the end for us is about the effective performance. Most group III oil perform almost as good as group IV and GTL with the right formulations and additives.
From Virgin oil analysis, GTL oil (Shell/Pennzoil Ultra Platinum) needs less additives than non GTL version. Base oil is more stable than additives.
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Perhaps you could link the relevant EU rule or law that co-equates a GTL derived base to PAO and this forbidden labeling requirement? I have never seen this.
Hydrocracking is indeed synthesis. And yes the stock is also saturated, as are GTL derived Group III stocks. Where did you learn your chemistry?
GTL produces a Group III feedstock that is cleaner, but still requires hydrocracking and saturation. But that doesn't mean there aren't other Group III bases that have similar VI and saturate levels. Groups I, II and III specifically exclude the method of manufacture from the designation and are only concerned with performance. I'm interested to see how the EU differentiates a Group III base in practice.
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