Why is HDEO better for OPE, than regular oil?

[BigD1]

That Kohler oil description is a bit behind what's actually on the bottles. Couple posts ago I posted what's on the current 10W-30 bottle.

Yes they are recommending a dual rated HDEO. I figure the HDEO is all got to do with piston/ring temperatures, and I am pretty sure that diesel piston/ring temperatures are a good bit higher than passenger cars.

 

[BigD1]

Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
For me it is simple. Most of the blown engines I have seen come in with low oil or no oil. The customer usually didn't check the oil.

HDEO seems to hold up better and burn off less, so when customers get an oil change on their equipment, I use that. I've had mowers that came in with barely any on the dipstick come back next time still in the safe range. The HDEO isn't very expensive either. There is almost no point in using Mobil 1 in a lawn mower. It seems to burn off quicker, it is expensive, and it seems I can almost watch it leak out of some of the older engines I service.


A lot of these small engines don't have oil filters, so if a synthetic oil is used it's still supposed to be changed at the same oil change intervals. Briggs Stratton now recommends 5W-30 and 10W-30 synthetic oils, but they also say, "Use of synthetic oil does not alter required oil change intervals."

 

[lars11]

Of course heavy duty is better than light duty if you are pushing things. Most mowers etc aren't really pushed, I mean 45 mins of mowing 25 times a year is below the OCI and at that common level of use the old OPE will last a long time with any oil changed at 25 hr or 1 yr.

However, the same kind of engines are sometimes used in like generators and doing fine for a few hours at the camping site but are totally killed in a couple of days after a Florida blackout. Well, not strange. I can totally get that some people are running them 24/7 only shutting down for refuelling, forgetting that a day or two is actually approaching 50 hrs, in the heat, no oil filters and under load. Water pumps at farm sites, etc, is the same.

So of course, if HD oil stays in grade better, deals with heat better, deals with fuel and dirt better, doesn't burn off as easily, the HD will be better.
Will you notice that with a 25 hr/yr mower with oil changes? No.
Will HD be just as good at the same price as lesser oil? Yes.
Should you use HD for compressors, pumps, generators that run days on end to get both fewer ocis and longer service? Yes.

Then there are different quality HDEO too, but generally it is cost efficient. If farmers and truckers use it by the barrel, it has to be fairly cheap AND HD.

 

[TiredTrucker]

Originally Posted By: BigD1
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Had to go to a John Deere dealer site to look it up, but their Plus 4 10w30 is also SL rated.

http://www.greenpartstore.com/John-Deere...rt-TY26811.html


Description says SL rated, but if you mouse over the bottle it is actually SM/GF-4.



Right you are!

 

[TiredTrucker]

Originally Posted By: lars11
Of course heavy duty is better than light duty if you are pushing things. Most mowers etc aren't really pushed, I mean 45 mins of mowing 25 times a year is below the OCI and at that common level of use the old OPE will last a long time with any oil changed at 25 hr or 1 yr.

However, the same kind of engines are sometimes used in like generators and doing fine for a few hours at the camping site but are totally killed in a couple of days after a Florida blackout. Well, not strange. I can totally get that some people are running them 24/7 only shutting down for refuelling, forgetting that a day or two is actually approaching 50 hrs, in the heat, no oil filters and under load. Water pumps at farm sites, etc, is the same.

So of course, if HD oil stays in grade better, deals with heat better, deals with fuel and dirt better, doesn't burn off as easily, the HD will be better.
Will you notice that with a 25 hr/yr mower with oil changes? No.
Will HD be just as good at the same price as lesser oil? Yes.
Should you use HD for compressors, pumps, generators that run days on end to get both fewer ocis and longer service? Yes.

Then there are different quality HDEO too, but generally it is cost efficient. If farmers and truckers use it by the barrel, it has to be fairly cheap AND HD.


My lawn mower runs for about 3 hrs working time each time the yard gets mowed. My portable generator, while on the semi truck runs about 10 hrs at a time, each night in the winter. More sporadically in the summer. Both get a HDEO 10w30.

 

[Bror Jace]

Why run a Heavy Duty Engine Oil (HDEO) in Outdoor Power Equipment (OPE)?

Their general advantages over “regular” Passenger Car Motor Oil (PCMO) include:

1) They are more shear resistant than PCMOs. Often, PCMOs shear down initially and thicken very gradually over the oil change interval (for fuel economy). In a hot-running OPE engine, This can lead to rapid thinning and consumption … and engine failure if the unit runs dangerously low on oil.

2) Superior anti-wear additive package. Diesels have high compression, higher valve spring tensions requiring more anti-wear adds than PCMOs.

3) Superior detergent/dispersant additive package to deal with the byproducts of combustion (important for carbureted engines) and possibly high-moisture environments. Excellent TBN for protection against corrosion internally and cleaner running for year after year.

4) Economy. HDMOs are often just a bit more expensive than PCMOs … and significantly less expensive than most synthetics.

5) Most OPEs do not have an oil filter making extended oil change intervals a poor choice since wear particles accumulate and continue to be circulated throughout the engine until drained. Draining expensive synthetic oil with just 50-100 hours on it is just a waste.

6) Wide availability. Many retail outlets carry them, all major brands produce HDEOs … and they come in a number of weights: 0W30, 10W-30, 5W40, 15W40, SAE 30, etc ...

 

[NH73]

Originally Posted By: Bror Jace
Why run a Heavy Duty Engine Oil (HDEO) in Outdoor Power Equipment (OPE)?

Their general advantages over “regular” Passenger Car Motor Oil (PCMO) include:

1) They are more shear resistant than PCMOs. Often, PCMOs shear down initially and thicken very gradually over the oil change interval (for fuel economy). In a hot-running OPE engine, This can lead to rapid thinning and consumption … and engine failure if the unit runs dangerously low on oil.

2) Superior anti-wear additive package. Diesels have high compression, higher valve spring tensions requiring more anti-wear adds than PCMOs.

3) Superior detergent/dispersant additive package to deal with the byproducts of combustion (important for carbureted engines) and possibly high-moisture environments. Excellent TBN for protection against corrosion internally and cleaner running for year after year.

4) Economy. HDMOs are often just a bit more expensive than PCMOs … and significantly less expensive than most synthetics.

5) Most OPEs do not have an oil filter making extended oil change intervals a poor choice since wear particles accumulate and continue to be circulated throughout the engine until drained. Draining expensive synthetic oil with just 50-100 hours on it is just a waste.

6) Wide availability. Many retail outlets carry them, all major brands produce HDEOs … and they come in a number of weights: 0W30, 10W-30, 5W40, 15W40, SAE 30, etc ...


Thanks. After many post, did someone really answer the question.

 

[dlundblad]

Originally Posted By: NH73
Originally Posted By: Bror Jace
Why run a Heavy Duty Engine Oil (HDEO) in Outdoor Power Equipment (OPE)?

Their general advantages over “regular” Passenger Car Motor Oil (PCMO) include:

1) They are more shear resistant than PCMOs. Often, PCMOs shear down initially and thicken very gradually over the oil change interval (for fuel economy). In a hot-running OPE engine, This can lead to rapid thinning and consumption … and engine failure if the unit runs dangerously low on oil.

2) Superior anti-wear additive package. Diesels have high compression, higher valve spring tensions requiring more anti-wear adds than PCMOs.

3) Superior detergent/dispersant additive package to deal with the byproducts of combustion (important for carbureted engines) and possibly high-moisture environments. Excellent TBN for protection against corrosion internally and cleaner running for year after year.

4) Economy. HDMOs are often just a bit more expensive than PCMOs … and significantly less expensive than most synthetics.

5) Most OPEs do not have an oil filter making extended oil change intervals a poor choice since wear particles accumulate and continue to be circulated throughout the engine until drained. Draining expensive synthetic oil with just 50-100 hours on it is just a waste.

6) Wide availability. Many retail outlets carry them, all major brands produce HDEOs … and they come in a number of weights: 0W30, 10W-30, 5W40, 15W40, SAE 30, etc ...


Thanks. After many post, did someone really answer the question.


Not really.

I have a 13 horse Honda that calls for various multi-grade weights changed in x many hrs. Be it the suggested 10w30, SAE 30, 15w40, I don't think it would know the difference assuming the recommended service intervals are followed and the engine is kept topped off.

Running HDEO in OPE engines do a good job giving warm fuzzy feelings though.. That is about it.

 

[Bror Jace]

Thanks NH73. I watched this thread for a week or so and while some good points were made, no one listed most or all of the advantages like I just did. Kinda disappointing, actually.

dlunblad, I *did* answer the (original) question: “Why are HDEO oils better for OPE?”

You do have a point, however, in that for “normal” (homeowner) use, OPE engines will often outlast the rest of the unit with just basic maintenance using “whatever” lubricants. However, some people push their engines hard (especially people in construction or the business of yard maintenance) and we've all seen the neighbor with the lawn mower that doubles as a fog machine (almost surely due to neglected maintenance). This is easily avoided ... with a little extra cushion for assurance ... if you just apply a little thought and care.

And I had a neighbor over a decade ago that blew up 3 or 4 lawn tractors in a 2 year period. I suspect he ran them out of oil, but that's just a guess on my part. These things are not goof-proof ... and he's my best example.

For the extra 20 to 50 cents per year, I'd say stepping up to an HDEO for your OPE is probably the cheapest of all the cheap insurances you could possibly buy.

 

[dlundblad]

I guess my point was that it really doesn't matter. The term better is subjective if there isn't a benefit IMO.

For example, dino ran at 5k vs. synthetic ran at 5k. Is the synthetic really better?

I have a few diesel tractors so yes, my OPE gets some HDEO. They also gets PCMO 5 quart jug left-overs. If I just had passenger cars, my OPE would just get PCMO. In my case, probably a PYB/ M1 0w40 blend.

PYB is cheap and the 4.0 likes it. M1 0w40 is cheap and the turbo Volvo likes it.

 

[fdcg27]

I'm not sure that everyone here shares that opinion.
As a few posters noted above, the most common cause of oil-related failure in OPEs is to run them out of oil.
These little guys don't seem too concerned about what's in the sump as long as they have an adequate amount of oil to keep everything lubed.
Yeah, they do run hot, but not hot enough that any modern spec oil would cause problems.
If I relied upon a generator to power my house for days on end, I'd probably skip any HDEO and use M1 15W-50.

 

[dlundblad]

The thing with generators is that if the factory recommended OCI is 50 or even 100 hrs, it'd be pretty easy to pass that if it was ran days on end. That is where a stash comes in hand.

I don't think an HDEO would matter in this case. Change it when you're supposed to with what you're supposed to and keep it topped off.

 

[NH73]

Thanks everybody in this post. I have had made my conclusion on this subject, after learning from other post and manufacturers recommendations. If your one of those that go buy your oil for your OPE, then yes, HDEO oils are a good pick. But if your using left over oil from your car for average homeowner use of OPE, that will be fine. Oil today will not be consumed as fast as years ago because they are better. The biggest key is to make sure it has oil. The Resource Conserving added labeling is require to have turbocharger protection, so using that in your OPE shouldn't be a problem. So fill up and top off and your OPE will stay running.

 

[NH73]

Originally Posted By: Bror Jace
Why run a Heavy Duty Engine Oil (HDEO) in Outdoor Power Equipment (OPE)?

Their general advantages over “regular” Passenger Car Motor Oil (PCMO) include:

1) They are more shear resistant than PCMOs. Often, PCMOs shear down initially and thicken very gradually over the oil change interval (for fuel economy). In a hot-running OPE engine, This can lead to rapid thinning and consumption … and engine failure if the unit runs dangerously low on oil.

2) Superior anti-wear additive package. Diesels have high compression, higher valve spring tensions requiring more anti-wear adds than PCMOs.

3) Superior detergent/dispersant additive package to deal with the byproducts of combustion (important for carbureted engines) and possibly high-moisture environments. Excellent TBN for protection against corrosion internally and cleaner running for year after year.

4) Economy. HDMOs are often just a bit more expensive than PCMOs … and significantly less expensive than most synthetics.

5) Most OPEs do not have an oil filter making extended oil change intervals a poor choice since wear particles accumulate and continue to be circulated throughout the engine until drained. Draining expensive synthetic oil with just 50-100 hours on it is just a waste.

6) Wide availability. Many retail outlets carry them, all major brands produce HDEOs … and they come in a number of weights: 0W30, 10W-30, 5W40, 15W40, SAE 30, etc ...

I have a question, Bror Jace, for you. How many of these advantages are present in a PCMO full synthetic? Other than cost, would you still consider a PCMO full synthetic, worse, just as good, or better than a conventional HDEO?

 

[Sealbilly]

Rotella makes 10w30 in dino and blend. Rotella also makes a strait 30 wt. I live in tennessee which is pretty hot in the summer and i use 10w30 which is my mowers spec oil as far as weight goes, i have never paid attention to other ratings besides wet clutch applications and energy conserving oil. Could i run 5w40 that i run in my jeep and scooter in my mower? 3 birds 1 stone...

 

[Kamele0N]

I am runing all my OPE equipement on sae40 oil (from 15w to 5w) for 20 years...with no issues!

 

[FastLane]

I've been buying Mobil 1 10W30 jugs on sale for all my small engines. They run forever without any issues.

 

[Bror Jace]

NH73, to answer your question:

1) A PCMO may have a comparable metallic anti-wear additive package to a HDEO ... but you have to take this on a case-by-case basis. Some synthetics have stout additive packages, others rely on their synthetic base oil for protection so they utilize few metallic adds ... which increases wear when I read the UOAs. Mobil 1 is an example of this. How is their current add-pack? You'll have to read recent UOAs/VOAs to be sure. I've been out of that game for a few years now.

2) A PCMO (synthetic or not) may be engineered to thin a bit at first, then thicken gradually over time. A hard-pressed OPE engine could consume the oil at its thin stage and run low/dry. Then, unlike what some of the comments above suggest, that would matter. I had a portable pump seize on me decades ago because this happened.

3) Probably the biggest single advantage a HDEO has over any PCMO is its ability to neutralize the acids formed by the byproducts of combustion ... especially in high-moisture environments. PCMOs only have a fraction of this ability. OPE almost always have (dirty) carburetors, some have little or no air filtration, and some are left out in the rain with their exposed engine frequently rained-on. All of these are contributing factors to forming corrosion and/or sludge in the motor. Marine oils are formulated similarly to HDEOs.

4) Again, don't get too hung up on the word "synthetic." Their primary advantages are their ability to flow in extreme temperatures and over long periods of time of use. It really comes down to just those properties. If they are not an advantage for you, you are probably better off with a conventional oil.