Why Hybrid?

[t1snwrbrdr12]

I’d like some constructive conversation about a hybrid for my situation, as I don’t see it being a good choice but maybe I’m just uniformed.

50-60 miles a day commuting without any stop and go, just cruising back road and highway. Occasional in town use for kids activities, but mainly a commuter car.

Will the ICE not have to run constantly to keep me at speed? I assume this means the electric motor is only functioning to assist (or not at all unless stopped and just starting off again). I’ve driven a sonata and a Malibu hybrid, both of which ran the ICE in almost every situation I drove it in.

In this case, I’m barely gaining any mpg / efficiency, so the break even due to higher purchase price of a hybrid is longer in the future.

Then plan in the future for AT LEAST a battery replacement / repair. I understand the powertrains are very reliable, so forget “planning” for any unscheduled repairs, but you have to plan to replace the battery at some point.

Wouldn’t this situation simply lend itself better to a typical ICE car? I feel like if you ever break even from the fuel savings, you’re right back in the hole when a battery repair comes up.

 

[andrew_j]

I’d like some constructive conversation about a hybrid for my situation, as I don’t see it being a good choice but maybe I’m just uniformed.

50-60 miles a day commuting without any stop and go, just cruising back road and highway. Occasional in town use for kids activities, but mainly a commuter car.

Will the ICE not have to run constantly to keep me at speed? I assume this means the electric motor is only functioning to assist (or not at all unless stopped and just starting off again). I’ve driven a sonata and a Malibu hybrid, both of which ran the ICE in almost every situation I drove it in.

In this case, I’m barely gaining any mpg / efficiency, so the break even due to higher purchase price of a hybrid is longer in the future.

Then plan in the future for AT LEAST a battery replacement / repair. I understand the powertrains are very reliable, so forget “planning” for any unscheduled repairs, but you have to plan to replace the battery at some point.

Wouldn’t this situation simply lend itself better to a typical ICE car? I feel like if you ever break even from the fuel savings, you’re right back in the hole when a battery repair comes up.

If you plan on 200k+ hybrid a concern , otherwise expect around 9-11 MPG improvement vs ICE same vehicle with a decent hybrid driveline like Toyota or Honda.

GM and Hyundai are amateurs at hybrids and many iterations should considered mild by them (very low speed).

 

[AdditiveOCD]

I’d like some constructive conversation about a hybrid for my situation, as I don’t see it being a good choice but maybe I’m just uniformed.

50-60 miles a day commuting without any stop and go, just cruising back road and highway. Occasional in town use for kids activities, but mainly a commuter car.

Will the ICE not have to run constantly to keep me at speed? I assume this means the electric motor is only functioning to assist (or not at all unless stopped and just starting off again). I’ve driven a sonata and a Malibu hybrid, both of which ran the ICE in almost every situation I drove it in.

In this case, I’m barely gaining any mpg / efficiency, so the break even due to higher purchase price of a hybrid is longer in the future.

Then plan in the future for AT LEAST a battery replacement / repair. I understand the powertrains are very reliable, so forget “planning” for any unscheduled repairs, but you have to plan to replace the battery at some point.

Wouldn’t this situation simply lend itself better to a typical ICE car? I feel like if you ever break even from the fuel savings, you’re right back in the hole when a battery repair comes up.

My antedote. I took a 400mi round trip recently, 95% highway, and averaged 38mpg going 75mph the whole way on cruise control. Now, I only know my hybrid and I'm sure others work differently, but my engine only kicked on while driving grades, and when the battery dipped down to two bars. From what I understand about the system in my vehicle, it's always running on the motor, the engine only charges the battery and provides more "juice" when needed based on my right foot. It can couple directly to the wheels if I floor it but I haven't felt the need to do that yet.

 

[AdditiveOCD]

Slightly off topic but i'm looking forward to hybrid vehicles that are basically a electric car with a generator on board. Something like the upcoming 2025 Ramcharger. Seems to me like a even simplier system than my current vehicle.

 

[t1snwrbrdr12]

My antedote. I took a 400mi round trip recently, 95% highway, and averaged 38mpg going 75mph the whole way on cruise control. Now, I only know my hybrid and I'm sure others work differently, but my engine only kicked on while driving grades, and when the battery dipped down to two bars. From what I understand about the system in my vehicle, it's always running on the motor, the engine only charges the battery and provides more "juice" when needed based on my right foot. It can couple directly to the wheels if I floor it but I haven't felt the need to do that yet.

This was sort of my expectation. In my area, if I’m not doing about 80 on the open highway, I’m causing road rage. Many drive faster than me. I cruise about 75-80 regularly and figured the hybrids will be needing the ICE assistance, thus limiting fuel mileage to being not much better than a regular old 4 cylinder commuter car. Then add to that the expenses of:

1) initial purchase
2) of repairs that I may not be able to handle
3) future battery replacement

and I just find it hard to see the value. But I see someone posted that the Camry hybrid is supposed to get 50ish mpg next year, so that’s a larger improvement in mpg than I thought a hybrid would be over ICE…if that ends up being an accurate real world mpg.

I know there’s some savings in less brake jobs. Maybe less wear and tear on a starter (I don’t know hardly anything about a hybrid but I feel like I’ve read that they don’t use a traditional starter) but I’m not seeing enough benefit. I admit though, I have a lot to learn about them.

I tried to rent a Prius through Turro on a recent trip to AZ with my wife to get a feel for a hybrid but going through her workplace enterprise agreement was so much cheaper.

 

[Snagglefoot]

The Atkinson cycle gas engine is more than 40% thermally efficient. That's insanely better than a conventional one. The issue is it works over a narrow powerband, has lower power density per cc, and is less fun to drive. But if you add a 60 hp electric motor with torque at zero RPM suddenly everything works splendidly.

A prius will have its gas engine running 99% of the time on the highway. It will still deliver great MPG thanks to the Atkinson cycle and good conventional aerodynamics.

The Prius is reliable because the engineers made it reliable. If they screwed it up it would have been embarrassing for the company and the entire premise of a hybrid. Half ton trucks get similar attention from engineers. Crackerboxes like Cavaliers and Escorts do not, or the bean-counters rule to the point of early failure.

Most hybrids also come with other drag-savers like electric power steering and electric AC. That's stuff that has to work at idle on a conventional car, so it's significantly oversized at cruise speed.

Exactly. The Atkinson Cycle engine is for efficiency, not power, but with the electric motor you get power when you need it and you get regenerative braking storing energy. At highway speed the electric motor does nothing and you cruise along with the amazing 40% efficiency of the Atinson cycle engine. When you need powder up a grade the motor kicks in. All this with a 5 minute fuel stop.

 

[2005jettatdi]

My antedote. I took a 400mi round trip recently, 95% highway, and averaged 38mpg going 75mph the whole way on cruise control. Now, I only know my hybrid and I'm sure others work differently, but my engine only kicked on while driving grades, and when the battery dipped down to two bars. From what I understand about the system in my vehicle, it's always running on the motor, the engine only charges the battery and provides more "juice" when needed based on my right foot. It can couple directly to the wheels if I floor it but I haven't felt the need to do that yet.

Anecdote, probably autocorrect or just a typo on your part. Also, for those who like to use the word, it is poseur for a person who habitually pretends to be something he is not, not poser. A poser is a person who hold his body in fixed position, such as for a painting.

 

[Patman]

Here is some stuff on pricing and gas mileage on the 2024 Camry Hybrid.
View attachment 219288View attachment 219289

Why does the LE get so much better MPG than the other trim levels? That seems like a pretty massive difference considering it looks like it has the exact same engine.

 

[Hermann]

Why does the LE get so much better MPG than the other trim levels? That seems like a pretty massive difference considering it looks like it has the exact same engine.

LE front wheel drive will be lighter and maybe (?) better aerodynamics. Skinner tires, small diameter wheels. It all adds up. probably other things contribute as well.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Slightly off topic but i'm looking forward to hybrid vehicles that are basically a electric car with a generator on board.

BMW i3 sold from 2013 - 2022.
Cadillac ELR

 

[AdditiveOCD]

Yeah, I mean I recognize those vehicles have my dream drivetrain…but I want that in a “regular” car. My biggest complain with most electrified vehicles is that they look terrible. I dare someone to say they drive a Prius for the looks.

I’ve always been on board the hybrid technology, I just don’t want my car to look like one lol.

 

[fdcg27]

Yeah, I mean I recognize those vehicles have my dream drivetrain…but I want that in a “regular” car. My biggest complain with most electrified vehicles is that they look terrible. I dare someone to say they drive a Prius for the looks.

I’ve always been on board the hybrid technology, I just don’t want my car to look like one lol.

You might just buy the current Prius for its looks, as well as its quickness, two things never said of any previous generation of Prius.

 

[PandaBear]

I’d like some constructive conversation about a hybrid for my situation, as I don’t see it being a good choice but maybe I’m just uniformed.

50-60 miles a day commuting without any stop and go, just cruising back road and highway. Occasional in town use for kids activities, but mainly a commuter car.

Will the ICE not have to run constantly to keep me at speed? I assume this means the electric motor is only functioning to assist (or not at all unless stopped and just starting off again). I’ve driven a sonata and a Malibu hybrid, both of which ran the ICE in almost every situation I drove it in.

In this case, I’m barely gaining any mpg / efficiency, so the break even due to higher purchase price of a hybrid is longer in the future.

Then plan in the future for AT LEAST a battery replacement / repair. I understand the powertrains are very reliable, so forget “planning” for any unscheduled repairs, but you have to plan to replace the battery at some point.

Wouldn’t this situation simply lend itself better to a typical ICE car? I feel like if you ever break even from the fuel savings, you’re right back in the hole when a battery repair comes up.

It should help you a lot comparing to the same car in non hybrid powertrain.

Hybrid usually design their engine / engine control to be more efficient even when it is on. The reason is a car usually only use about 30-40 hp to cruise at highway speed and in a hybrid, in theory you can downsize your engine to 30-40hp and use electric motor to give you the other 70-100 hp for acceleration. This is why you can run the same volume engine in Atkinson cycle which is at least 30% lower in power but more efficient. This also means it can run its engine always in the peak and narrow powerband if the hybrid has a CVT and an electric motor to accelerate with (and why it is pretty useless if the battery die and you want to only run it as a gas car). This is all before you factor in the regenerative braking, and money saved on brake pads.

About why hybrid being more reliable in practice than a gas only car, it probably has to do with not pushing the engine to run in extreme condition as the only way to move a car. In a gas car the engine has to run in extreme condition with extreme output. You are running your engine a lot harder as the only source of power to move the car. In a hybrid, the electric motor will output and help the gas engine, so it doesn't have to work as hard, and together they reduce the extreme condition that may cause more engine deposit, heat, stress, etc.

 

[SHOZ]

Porsche made the first Hybrid gas/electric car in 1901

Ferdinand Porsche's 1901 Semper Vivus. Photo Courtesy Porsche AG

 

[MCompact]

Why hybrid?
Today's fill up of the Sahara 4xe: 117.2 mpg on Sunoco 93

 

[meep]

I’d like some constructive conversation about a hybrid for my situation, as I don’t see it being a good choice but maybe I’m just uniformed.

50-60 miles a day commuting without any stop and go, just cruising back road and highway. Occasional in town use for kids activities, but mainly a commuter car.

Will the ICE not have to run constantly to keep me at speed? I assume this means the electric motor is only functioning to assist (or not at all unless stopped and just starting off again). I’ve driven a sonata and a Malibu hybrid, both of which ran the ICE in almost every situation I drove it in.

In this case, I’m barely gaining any mpg / efficiency, so the break even due to higher purchase price of a hybrid is longer in the future.

Then plan in the future for AT LEAST a battery replacement / repair. I understand the powertrains are very reliable, so forget “planning” for any unscheduled repairs, but you have to plan to replace the battery at some point.

Wouldn’t this situation simply lend itself better to a typical ICE car? I feel like if you ever break even from the fuel savings, you’re right back in the hole when a battery repair comes up.

I just looked at some of the numbers. The highway mpg of my wife’s new hybrid is very close to the highway mileage of the standard gas engine. The hybrid gets better at lower speeds and stop/go. Watching it work on the highway at 65 with the cruise on, it is still active. It will charge the battery coming down a hill and kick the engine off during that time, and if the battery is reasonably full do everything it can to then use the battery power either on a straightaway or a climb. All the while the engine is spinning impossibly slow - there’s no tach so I don’t really know but I’m going to propose 1300 rpm, unless there’s a hill climb. Ours is a Toyota (rav4) with the eCVT. The eCVT is very well sorted. I’ve stopped noticing it.

One highway situation where I *really* like it is during backups and traffic jams. There is no fuel anxiety. If you are sitting still, engine is off, AC is on. It can run the AC 20 minutes before it needs to start.