Why haven’t we seen many diesel PHEVs?

[weaponoffreedom]

Why would they die rapidly? Especially if it’s contained to the parameters I included… it would not be short-cycled, it would have minimum run times because it’s completely disconnected from the drivetrain and would be charging the battery to a minimum set point… think of it like electric radiator fans… they come on at 215* and off at 180*, say… and the diesel would come on at say 45% and off at 80%.

It’s essentially a mobile generator. And I’m fine with one of the smaller, naturally aspirated diesels, but as I said in my example, the Kohler meets the highest emissions standards. Plus diesel is 5-10% more efficient than gas to start with, has a lower explosion hazard, etc. The only real downside I see with this version is if the battery fails or the electric motor dies, there’s no alternative propulsion like with a “normal” hybrid.

I would argue that the electric motor, properly built is more reliable than any IC engine. Also I think that most do not like the start stop thing.

I have thought of this before ( small diesel motor, to a generator, to an electric motor like decades old train technology ) but then remembered basic physics.

No matter how it is done, it takes the same amount of energy to propel a vehicle at a certain rate.....the difference is loss in the system.

The issue is like @Rmay635703 said......the incorrect perception of people to require a race car DD.

 

[UG_Passat]

Diesel with the correct combustion chamber, fueling profile and temperature management, in a non-HD/OTR application, certainly meets low emissions, or could.

But Dieselgate proved it didn't meet LEV-II/Tier2-Bin 5 standards without cheating.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

I would argue that the electric motor, properly built is more reliable than any IC engine. Also I think that most do not like the start stop thing.

I have thought of this before ( small diesel motor, to a generator, to an electric motor like decades old train technology ) but then remembered basic physics.

No matter how it is done, it takes the same amount of energy to propel a vehicle at a certain rate.....the difference is loss in the system.

The issue is like @Rmay635703 said......the incorrect perception of people to require a race car DD.

What? You don’t have the correct perception, because there’s no start/stop anything like an ICE here. Diesel would only start once battery reached critical discharge percent (~20%? Maybe less) and it would stop only once the battery was charged past a certain point (maybe 55%, say). This means it would start and probably run for 30 minutes, then shut off for 35% of the next usage… exactly what “race car DD” are you talking about?

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

But Dieselgate proved it didn't meet LEV-II/Tier2-Bin 5 standards without cheating.

THAT diesel, in THAT application.

We get so hung up on the tiny details (VW cheated but actually saved the owner money!) and making those companies pariahs, while allowing other people to rob us blind with reckless abandon, and no adherence to the law or punishments doled out.

Until we get back to equal Justice under the law, I could care less about any of their carbon control “rules”.

 

[PandaBear]

Diesel with the correct combustion chamber, fueling profile and temperature management, in a non-HD/OTR application, certainly meets low emissions, or could.

Depends on what you mean low emission. Diesel will have more PM, NOX, or both, compare to gas engine. It is not because of the fuel itself but rather how high of a compression you use and the temperature you target it to burn at. Actually HCCI (Mazda Skyactiv X) and gas direction injection both have similar problem despite using gas and spark ignition.

 

[Audiman]

Forgot to mention the Audi Q7 3.0 TDI PHEV, launched in 2015.

Wonder what bigjl has to say about this one!

 

[UG_Passat]

THAT diesel, in THAT application.

We get so hung up on the tiny details (VW cheated but actually saved the owner money!) and making those companies pariahs, while allowing other people to rob us blind with reckless abandon, and no adherence to the law or punishments doled out.

Until we get back to equal Justice under the law, I could care less about any of their carbon control “rules”.

VW was the first to get caught. Daimler AG got caught cheating also....so the Bluetec diesels weren't so green after all.

And Ford got caught cheating, as well as GM and its Opel brand in Europe. Add in Fiat/Chrysler in Europe... and PSA (Peugeot & Citroen) and Renault got caught cheating its diesel emissions.

It's not the carbon emissions that makes diesel emissions bad.

 

[dumkid]

The point of a diesel phev wouldn't be for emissions, it would be for economy. If I can go 30 miles on electric alone and then switch to diesel and get 70 mpg I'll be spending less in fuel then a comparable gas hybrid.

And 70 mpg is just my guess for a small car driven conservatively, a 8000 lb SUV that gets floored from every stoplight is going to burn more fuel than a 2 door 2000 lb car.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

VW was the first to get caught. Daimler AG got caught cheating also....so the Bluetec diesels weren't so green after all.

And Ford got caught cheating, as well as GM and its Opel brand in Europe. Add in Fiat/Chrysler in Europe... and PSA (Peugeot & Citroen) and Renault got caught cheating its diesel emissions.

It's not the carbon emissions that makes diesel emissions bad.

Again, who literally can care one whit about “green” things when China is ignoring all of this, and emitting more NEW emissions every day than all of these green technologies in the US can achieve in a DECADE?

We miss the forest for the trees, fellas. Ignore the distractions.

 

[weaponoffreedom]

The point of a diesel phev wouldn't be for emissions, it would be for economy. If I can go 30 miles on electric alone and then switch to diesel and get 70 mpg I'll be spending less in fuel then a comparable gas hybrid.

And 70 mpg is just my guess for a small car driven conservatively, a 8000 lb SUV that gets floored from every stoplight is going to burn more fuel than a 2 door 2000 lb car.

Not sure that wirth today requirements 70 would be a likely number. Hell, for that matter, just roll with the ICE if it gets 70. Most dont even drive that far everyday.

 

[PandaBear]

Again, who literally can care one whit about “green” things when China is ignoring all of this, and emitting more NEW emissions every day than all of these green technologies in the US can achieve in a DECADE?

We miss the forest for the trees, fellas. Ignore the distractions.

PM and NOX are mostly local pollution. PM can cause asthma and NOX can cause smog and haze. We do have days when the air is bad and kids stay indoor even today, so yeah I do care about them. CO2 is not my local concern. Let's assume it can cause sea level rises it won't impact me locally (I'm 72' above sea level).

Pretty much any high standard of living area would care about local PM and NOX, but not much about CO2. EPA regulates PM and NOX, but at least not CO2 as pollutants in air quality (national politics is a different subject matters). Smog check test nox, pm, hc but not CO2.

 

[edyvw]

Again, who literally can care one whit about “green” things when China is ignoring all of this, and emitting more NEW emissions every day than all of these green technologies in the US can achieve in a DECADE?

We miss the forest for the trees, fellas. Ignore the distractions.

I think you really confused what emissions are created by gas and what by diesel.
Gasoline engines are huge emitters of CO2=greenhouse effect. Diesels on other hand were seen as very good short to mid term solution as they so not emit CO2 nowhere close to gasoline. But, they are huge PM and NOx emitters. You want to know what NOx does to your lungs? Go to Paris, find average building and check limestone. It is horrid how basically eaten is. That is bcs. for a long time 90% of cars in France were diesels. So, solution is SCR for NOx and DPF for PM. But, it is expensive, generally unreliable. VW fell behind others when it was betting on Pumpe-Duse technology (great from consumption and power aspect, horrible emissions and vibration) and BMW and Fiat bet on Common-Rail, which was eventually accepted by all manufacturers. Then VW had to do something = cheating instead of investing.
Every time Elon Musk wakes up should first go on his knees and thank VW. Since diesegate, EV flood started and there is no going back.

 

[4WD]

I think you really confused what emissions are created by gas and what by diesel.
Gasoline engines are huge emitters of CO2=greenhouse effect. Diesels on other hand were seen as very good short to mid term solution as they so not emit CO2 nowhere close to gasoline. But, they are huge PM and NOx emitters. You want to know what NOx does to your lungs? Go to Paris, find average building and check limestone. It is horrid how basically eaten is. That is bcs. for a long time 90% of cars in France were diesels. So, solution is SCR for NOx and DPF for PM. But, it is expensive, generally unreliable. VW fell behind others when it was betting on Pumpe-Duse technology (great from consumption and power aspect, horrible emissions and vibration) and BMW and Fiat bet on Common-Rail, which was eventually accepted by all manufacturers. Then VW had to do something = cheating instead of investing.
Every time Elon Musk wakes up should first go on his knees and thank VW. Since diesegate, EV flood started and there is no going back.

Yep - massive low grade diesel fuel engines hauling China-junk globally bothers me far more than you deciding to pick a 0W40 for a mix of DD and a bit of WE tire squealing on a proper track …

 

[edyvw]

Yep - massive low grade diesel fuel engines hauling China-junk globally bothers me far more than you deciding to pick a 0W40 for a mix of DD and a bit of WE tire squealing on a proper track …

I agree, but even they realized something is wrong with the fact one has to watch sunset on big screen.

 

[4WD]

I agree, but even they realized something is wrong with the fact one has to watch sunset on big screen.

For sure - I get the analogy but don’t even head to the beach until 1700 lately … the last time I watched a decent from a plane window over China - it looked like my great grandfather’s old “brown n white” photos (we are 100% Czech heritage) …

 

[weaponoffreedom]

Yep - massive low grade diesel fuel engines hauling China-junk globally bothers me far more than you deciding to pick a 0W40 for a mix of DD and a bit of WE tire squealing on a proper track …

In lies what might be the greatest hypocrisy of Californian liberalism, and going green.

 

[OVERKILL]

I think you really confused what emissions are created by gas and what by diesel.
Gasoline engines are huge emitters of CO2=greenhouse effect. Diesels on other hand were seen as very good short to mid term solution as they so not emit CO2 nowhere close to gasoline.

NRCAN doesn't agree with this, lol.
They state:
- Gasoline releases 2.3kg CO2/litre
- Diesel releases 2.7kg CO2/litre

https://natural-resources.canada.ca...ient-technologies/autosmart_factsheet_9_e.pdf

This article concurs, noting that while emissions per litre are higher for diesel, overall CO2 emissions were less simply because they used less fuel:
https://theconversation.com/fact-check-are-diesel-cars-really-more-polluting-than-petrol-cars-76241

The EPA also correlates here, noting
- Diesel: 74.14kg CO2 per million BTU
- Gasoline: 70.66kg CO2 per million BTU
https://www.eia.gov/environment/emissions/co2_vol_mass.php

 

[edyvw]

NRCAN doesn't agree with this, lol.
They state:
- Gasoline releases 2.3kg CO2/litre
- Diesel releases 2.7kg CO2/litre

https://natural-resources.canada.ca...ient-technologies/autosmart_factsheet_9_e.pdf

This article concurs, noting that while emissions per litre are higher for diesel, overall CO2 emissions were less simply because they used less fuel:
https://theconversation.com/fact-check-are-diesel-cars-really-more-polluting-than-petrol-cars-76241

The EPA also correlates here, noting
- Diesel: 74.14kg CO2 per million BTU
- Gasoline: 70.66kg CO2 per million BTU
https://www.eia.gov/environment/emissions/co2_vol_mass.php

Thanx for correction. You are right.
It is end result.

 

[4WD]

NRCAN doesn't agree with this, lol.
They state:
- Gasoline releases 2.3kg CO2/litre
- Diesel releases 2.7kg CO2/litre

https://natural-resources.canada.ca...ient-technologies/autosmart_factsheet_9_e.pdf

This article concurs, noting that while emissions per litre are higher for diesel, overall CO2 emissions were less simply because they used less fuel:
https://theconversation.com/fact-check-are-diesel-cars-really-more-polluting-than-petrol-cars-76241

The EPA also correlates here, noting
- Diesel: 74.14kg CO2 per million BTU
- Gasoline: 70.66kg CO2 per million BTU
https://www.eia.gov/environment/emissions/co2_vol_mass.php

Expected to GTL based diesel in N.A. … not aware of any?
https://www.shell.com/business-customers/commercial-fuels/shell-gtl-fuel.html

 

[weaponoffreedom]

old gm 6.2 diesel, 20 mpg, new duramax 11 mpg

Perhaps performance needs ro be toned down a bit. Car companies suit the wants of its customers not the need. If they came out with a square body again with no frill no nothing, they would sell like hotcakes. But unfortunately, most do not WANT that. They want the 10sec quarter mile, 30k towing capacity, heated and cooled seats.............