Why don’t people recycle their old oil?

[PandaBear]

Why is it such a bad idea to burn old oil as heating fuel when it reduce the demand for heating fuel and there is a bigger demand of heating fuel than engine oil base stock?

Forcing used oil, plastic containers, etc to be recycled into the same thing they came from is not efficient or smart. As long as they are not junked or dumped into the ground I couldn't care less how they recycle or consume it.

 

[Steve S]

Originally Posted By: Mustang2008Z
EPA has a 2006 Report, hastily put together, to give to Congress.

In it it says that in order for re-refiners to make any money, that the U.S. Government (Taxpayers) would have to provide substantial subsidies like what happens in Europe, to keep the business alive. The only other use for the old oil is to burn it for heat or for possible manufacturing uses. There would need to be huge outlays of money and public support to get the recycled oil back into the public arena. Yes, it would save millions of gallons of oil and money, but public perception of using someone else's old oil, and not knowing if it is equivalent to API or SAE standards causes it to fail here in the U.S. We need to change our perception of using old oil, as long as it fits API Service Capabilities, and it just like "Virgin Oil." In my opinion, once the government gets involved, I feel like I have been cheated and lied to by local, state, and federal authorities about the consistency of re-refined oil....My opinion...
Bout time

I'll add what will be burned instead of used oil ?

 

[oilslick44]

Burning used motor oil puts a lot of toxins into the air we need to breathe.

 

[tig1]

Pablo,
Isn't this just more gov"t intrusion?

 

[moribundman]

Originally Posted By: oilslick44
Burning used motor oil puts a lot of toxins into the air we need to breathe.


Apparently the air we breathe is clean enough.

 

[Shannow]

As far as I'm concerned, adding it back into the refinery intake is about as recycled as used engine oil can ever be economically and sensibly.

 

[oilyriser]

There's probably some rule classifying it as "toxic waste" which multiplies handling costs all along the line. As people start keeping their cars longer and longer, more will dribble across the countryside or get burned in engines, and there will be less used oil left over, so the recycling should become more economical.

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
As far as I'm concerned, adding it back into the refinery intake is about as recycled as used engine oil can ever be economically and sensibly.


This makes the most sense. I still think that we've got too much byproduct from fuel production and therefore need a discounted market to soak it up. That's the only reason that I can think of that recycling is not further along. The virgin stuff is still too plentiful and cheap.

 

[Steve S]

Originally Posted By: oilslick44
Burning used motor oil puts a lot of toxins into the air we need to breathe.
What will the bunker type oil that would be burned put out toxin wise if all the oil was rerefined? Any idea the toxins rerefining the used oil would give out? What about the toxins in the stuff made in China and released into the enviroment by those companies?What about your life style you drive a car ? Every breath you exhale carbon dioxide really bad now days. Life puts out pollution seems the biggest consumers and polluters worry most about others making pollution.

 

[Steve S]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Originally Posted By: Shannow
As far as I'm concerned, adding it back into the refinery intake is about as recycled as used engine oil can ever be economically and sensibly.


This makes the most sense. I still think that we've got too much byproduct from fuel production and therefore need a discounted market to soak it up. That's the only reason that I can think of that recycling is not further along. The virgin stuff is still too plentiful and cheap.
Thinking about all the used oil that is generated where does most of it go ? Not like every drop of used oil is dumped back into [on] the earth where it came from.

 

[Steve S]

Originally Posted By: moribundman
Originally Posted By: oilslick44
Burning used motor oil puts a lot of toxins into the air we need to breathe.


Apparently the air we breathe is clean enough.

for you to still drive your car !!!

 

[Kestas]

I see a lot of people mention how burning used oil is toxic. What are the specific toxins?

 

[oilyriser]

particulates containing zinc, molybdenum, and lead

 

[Mustang2008Z]

Natural Gas could be burned. It comes up before the crude oil from the ground comes up, and there may be more options like wind power. West Texas has lots of Wind...lol

 

[oilyriser]

I'm looking for a natural gas fired ground source heat pump. Burn gas in an engine (collect the heat), and use the engine to turn a refrigerant compressor that sucks heat out of the ground. This should get about 80% more heat than from just burning the gas. And super-insulate the building, so a small system can heat a large apartment.

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: oilyriser
I'm looking for a natural gas fired ground source heat pump. Burn gas in an engine (collect the heat), and use the engine to turn a refrigerant compressor that sucks heat out of the ground. This should get about 80% more heat than from just burning the gas. And super-insulate the building, so a small system can heat a large apartment.


Something similar is already there. We've got a heater that gets the heat from the natural gas heater exhaust back into the output part of the heater. From what I understand, this has something close to 96% efficiency, but much cheaper than digging a hole in the ground for heat sink and natural gas fired compressor.

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: Steve S
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Originally Posted By: Shannow
As far as I'm concerned, adding it back into the refinery intake is about as recycled as used engine oil can ever be economically and sensibly.


This makes the most sense. I still think that we've got too much byproduct from fuel production and therefore need a discounted market to soak it up. That's the only reason that I can think of that recycling is not further along. The virgin stuff is still too plentiful and cheap.
Thinking about all the used oil that is generated where does most of it go ? Not like every drop of used oil is dumped back into [on] the earth where it came from.


Most of it is burned as low grade fuel. Re-refining/recycling is relatively small in comparison.

 

[oilyriser]

A gas-fired heat pump would work like this:

100 energy units of gas go into a lean burn gas engine. 35 units of mechanical energy come out, plus 65 units of heat. The 35 units of mechanical go to the heat pump with a COP of 4, giving 140 units of heat on the condenser. Add the 65 units of heat from the engine, and you have a total of 205 units of low-grade heat energy into the building from 100 units of natural gas energy. The engine might need an overhaul every 10,000 hours, which might be every three years. This system could be used as base load heating for a large building, or even for recycling latent heat from wet process air into a steam supply at a lower COP.

 

[Mustang2008Z]

I looked at "America's Choice" motor oil. On the America's Choice website. It was about re-refining used oil that was supposed to equal the current specifications required by automobile manufacturers. I was surprised to note that there was a letter from Mercedes Benz which, sometimes, uses re-refined oil as factory fill. Ford's letter was not as enthusiastic about re-refined oil. To Ford there appears to be a wide variance in quality, and may affect the warranty.

I called "America's Choice" sales representative in Waco, Texas, and he said that they concentrate on government sales like local governments, county, state, and federal. They, also, concentrate on military sales. I talked to him about 4 months ago, and he said he would get back with me about offering the re-refined oil to the general public through retailers. As of this date, I have not heard back from him.

I know re-refined motor oil, as long as it meets specs of all automobile manaufacturers would go a long way to slow our dependency on middle east oil. According to a July,2006 EPA report, re-refined oil is not economically feasible as of that date, and would require subsidies because of the huge costs associated with the equipment to do the re-refining. EPA did state that as time goes on, that the basestocks for re-refiners will improve and thus the re-refined oil will be better than in 2006. Most of the old oil is being burned in oil burners for heat and other things, than being recycled for reuse. The report was done very quickly for Congress and could not be involved in a long-term study, which might be better. The europeans subsidize the re-refinery business to keep it going. Could we do the same here in the U.S.? I don't know.....

By the way, in the EPA Report to Congress, and thanks to government action, used oil is not considered toxic waste under EPA Regulations. What may be in the used oil may be "toxic" after it comes out of the vehicle where it was used, but the oil itself is not considered toxic. The U.S. Government wanted to make used oil recycling "valuable" so toxic substance was not used related to the used oil. The Regulations, and probably some law, passed by Congress, prevents the states from passing laws saying that "used oil" is toxic, only the substances that occur as a result of combustion would be considered toxic...Don't know if that makes sense, but then sometimes government doesn't make sense in some of the laws they enact.

 

[Mustang2008Z]

Here is a comment from John Cutshall from Safety-Kleen as to why re-refined oil is not available in retail stores. He sent this to me on 1.2.2009:

The real problem with retail marketing of our products is that there is little demand.

With low demand, it is impossible to get any retail outlets to stock the products.

Any time somebody goes into a parts store for oil, they are either looking for a name brand or the cheapest quart there. We do not offer either product.

"If you talked with Safety-Kleen in Waco, they do not distribute the America's Choice lubricants. (Maybe reason why salesman did not call me back..eh?)

We have distributors in Ft. Worth, Fredericksburg and Gonzales.

These distributors do supply our government customers or sell our products as housebrand.

I'm sorry that I can not offer much hope of retail availability, but over the last 10 years, the State of California has spent tens of millions of dollars trying to generate retail demand for rerefined lubricants with little success.

With the economy down and State budgets being in the red, there will not be any support from those areas.

Thanks for your interest in our products."


Straight from Mr. Cutshall/Safety-Klean Regional Manager for Texas and the Western half of the U.S.