For me it's about a choice between an engaging driving experience and an isolated one. As I've gotten older, I've realized I want a more and more isolated experience meaning I don't really want to hear much or know much about what the car is doing while it is getting me there. I just want it to get me there safely and not hit someone else (or be hit) during the process. I simply don't have the energy anymore to really be interested in how the car is getting me there. I am probably taking it to a total extreme but I am not really interested in even knowing if the automatic downshifts on a hill or not. So, an automatic simply makes driving a lot easier and I can focus my energy on other traffic, satellite radio or listening to my wife. A manual would involve a lot more work. Further diminishing the need for manuals are new automatics which allow you to manually shift--I occasionally used that feature in the mountains recently to avoid heating up or glazing the brakes during long downhill grades. My 2 cents worth.
Why Don't people enjoy driving a manual trans??
- Thread starter Clubber_Lang
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I had a Saturn Ion with a stick for years.
It was cheap transportation, and pretty reliable.
When I traded that car in, to a dealer in PA it was up in the Pocono Mountains.
Driving a stick up mountain passes, and down them, with iffy brakes was very nerve racking.
Now that I live near Austin, I would never have a stick as a daily driver car. Sitting in traffic rolling off the clutch pedal, then back on it, would be terrible.
However, I would buy a sports car for a sunday driver with a stick. My wife does not drive stick, so we will probably stick with an automatic for a toy car.
It was cheap transportation, and pretty reliable.
When I traded that car in, to a dealer in PA it was up in the Pocono Mountains.
Driving a stick up mountain passes, and down them, with iffy brakes was very nerve racking.
Now that I live near Austin, I would never have a stick as a daily driver car. Sitting in traffic rolling off the clutch pedal, then back on it, would be terrible.
However, I would buy a sports car for a sunday driver with a stick. My wife does not drive stick, so we will probably stick with an automatic for a toy car.
Originally Posted By: Cristobal
I love manuals, except in traffic.
Likewise. They're great in anything but 5 mph bumper to bumper traffic. I've found if you leave enough distance between you and cars ahead of you, you can minimize having to put the clutch pedal in and just limp along in 1st gear, but mine has a really short 1st.
I love manuals, except in traffic.
Likewise. They're great in anything but 5 mph bumper to bumper traffic. I've found if you leave enough distance between you and cars ahead of you, you can minimize having to put the clutch pedal in and just limp along in 1st gear, but mine has a really short 1st.
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
OP's comments are starting to make me regret having participated in this thread.
Everyone else seems to be posting usefully. I suggest we just ignore the chaff and keep going.
He reminds me a bit of Carnoobie. I miss that guy. He was very entertaining.
OP's comments are starting to make me regret having participated in this thread.
Everyone else seems to be posting usefully. I suggest we just ignore the chaff and keep going.
He reminds me a bit of Carnoobie. I miss that guy. He was very entertaining.
I don't get much traffic up here, so I've always liked manuals. Then I tried backing up my camper with my car--and realized how badly geared it was for the purpose. Gearing would help, but "bad the rest of the time" torque convertor is just fine for that application. So I looked forward to getting a truck having a TC. The shift logic can drive me nuts, sure. The driving experience between compact car and oversized-half-ton is enormous. And dare I say, a half ton with a clutch won't be fun--just as a half ton with an auto isn't fun either.
Driving has become more of a chore for me. It's something I simply have to do. Like the dishes. It is what it is. About 425,000miles in the last 14 years. As I head into mid-life I'm starting to spend less time thinking about "fun" stuff and concentrate on getting stuff done.
Driving has become more of a chore for me. It's something I simply have to do. Like the dishes. It is what it is. About 425,000miles in the last 14 years. As I head into mid-life I'm starting to spend less time thinking about "fun" stuff and concentrate on getting stuff done.
Yikes. At 30,0000 miles per year, I too would also consider it a chore.
Luckily I work at home most of the time and travel 2 days a week in my company car.
Luckily I work at home most of the time and travel 2 days a week in my company car.
Originally Posted By: Clubber_Lang
I just don't get it. I think driving a standard transmission has so many advantages, including better/more engaging driving experience, (often) longer transmission life, ect.
Some people prefer to ride a vehicle instead of actually drive it
In sweden A/T also known here as "handicapbox" was 20 years ago mostly used by old people or handicapped who had lost some driving skills but now its more and more common with A/T but its still by far more cars with manual transmission.
One reason is probably because if do the driverlicense test with a A/T equipped car you are not allowed to drive a M/T car until you have done the test again with a M/T car.
If you do the test in a M/T car then you can drive both M/T and A/T so 99% of all people learn to drive in a M/T car to get a driver license for both M/T and A/T.
In my own opinion A/T is more comfortable but its sooo boring to drive..
I just don't get it. I think driving a standard transmission has so many advantages, including better/more engaging driving experience, (often) longer transmission life, ect.
Some people prefer to ride a vehicle instead of actually drive it
In sweden A/T also known here as "handicapbox" was 20 years ago mostly used by old people or handicapped who had lost some driving skills but now its more and more common with A/T but its still by far more cars with manual transmission.
One reason is probably because if do the driverlicense test with a A/T equipped car you are not allowed to drive a M/T car until you have done the test again with a M/T car.
If you do the test in a M/T car then you can drive both M/T and A/T so 99% of all people learn to drive in a M/T car to get a driver license for both M/T and A/T.
In my own opinion A/T is more comfortable but its sooo boring to drive..
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Originally Posted By: Cristobal
I love manuals, except in traffic.
Likewise. They're great in anything but 5 mph bumper to bumper traffic. I've found if you leave enough distance between you and cars ahead of you, you can minimize having to put the clutch pedal in and just limp along in 1st gear, but mine has a really short 1st.
I've found that if you leave enough space between you and the car in front of you that you should be able to avoid using clutch or brake in traffic, some jerk will simply cut in front of you.
Originally Posted By: Cristobal
I love manuals, except in traffic.
Likewise. They're great in anything but 5 mph bumper to bumper traffic. I've found if you leave enough distance between you and cars ahead of you, you can minimize having to put the clutch pedal in and just limp along in 1st gear, but mine has a really short 1st.
I've found that if you leave enough space between you and the car in front of you that you should be able to avoid using clutch or brake in traffic, some jerk will simply cut in front of you.
People don't learn to drive standard because they are too COOL to ever have to suck at something while they learn how to do it... for many, a few public stalls, and the game is over... i
For a kid, being embarrassed in front of their peers is about the worst thing possible in life... ! So they simply avoid it altogether...
The sad part is that they then validate their choice by saying that manual transmissions are "ancient" and " for people who can't AFFORD!? an auto tranny..." and "why would I WANT? to shift the gears... only losers drive stick..."
Blah blah blah...
Driving a manual transmission WELL is a skillset that takes many many many! hours to perfect, not 10 minutes... and any TRUE auto enthusiast will at least know HOW to drive one.
Unfortunately, many so-called enthusiasts haven't got a clue HOW! to drive... to them, straight line acceleration is performance... the people who buy a new STINGRAY, OR AMG Mercedes, or Audi S5 etc., the drivers that brake so early, and wobble thru every corner riding the brake, and thanking their stability control for saving their bacon, but then the straightaway comes...and yes, they CAN! press that gas pedal...!
You know who you are...and NO, you dont know how to drive... sorry... regardless of the emblem on the back of the car.
ANYBODY can push the gas pedal... but add a clutch and a gear shift, and you will quickly discover who can REALLY drive...
Don't be that guy who says ... " I could...I just don't want to..."
We all know what that really means.. which is... I can't, and I don't have the co-ordination / skill / patience / perseverance to learn....!
Cheers.
For a kid, being embarrassed in front of their peers is about the worst thing possible in life... ! So they simply avoid it altogether...
The sad part is that they then validate their choice by saying that manual transmissions are "ancient" and " for people who can't AFFORD!? an auto tranny..." and "why would I WANT? to shift the gears... only losers drive stick..."
Blah blah blah...
Driving a manual transmission WELL is a skillset that takes many many many! hours to perfect, not 10 minutes... and any TRUE auto enthusiast will at least know HOW to drive one.
Unfortunately, many so-called enthusiasts haven't got a clue HOW! to drive... to them, straight line acceleration is performance... the people who buy a new STINGRAY, OR AMG Mercedes, or Audi S5 etc., the drivers that brake so early, and wobble thru every corner riding the brake, and thanking their stability control for saving their bacon, but then the straightaway comes...and yes, they CAN! press that gas pedal...!
You know who you are...and NO, you dont know how to drive... sorry... regardless of the emblem on the back of the car.
ANYBODY can push the gas pedal... but add a clutch and a gear shift, and you will quickly discover who can REALLY drive...
Don't be that guy who says ... " I could...I just don't want to..."
We all know what that really means.. which is... I can't, and I don't have the co-ordination / skill / patience / perseverance to learn....!
Cheers.
Originally Posted By: Clubber_Lang
I have an idea: let's take everyone that can't drive a MT, or a MT up to your standards, line them up along the wall, and shoot them.
No, lets call them what they are. Ham fisted Dorks.
somebody pee in your cornflakes? your many comments are childish, but funny.
there are several reasons many choose to drive autos.a couple of years back, a friend was wounded on a job, and would be in pain if he had to drive a stick.he had to trade in a recent vette and a viper. he had to get auto's.people with left foot, right shoulder/hand/elbow issues would have trouble shifting. or, just plain old pita in stop and go traffic is a reason.
you sound like a bitoger who chastizes people for smoking, watching t.v., leasing a car, not eating healthy, to name a few.at least he writes in a more discrete and intelligent fashion.
a few of us are getting ready to watch a ball game, and play cards, when we saw this thread.your anti auto comments gave us all a good laugh, and we thank you for that.
you'll buy an auto -- you're just waiting for the first 10 speed. right? hehe.
again, thank you for the entertainment, and have a good evening.let us know when you find out who peed in your cornflakes.
I have an idea: let's take everyone that can't drive a MT, or a MT up to your standards, line them up along the wall, and shoot them.
No, lets call them what they are. Ham fisted Dorks.
somebody pee in your cornflakes? your many comments are childish, but funny.
there are several reasons many choose to drive autos.a couple of years back, a friend was wounded on a job, and would be in pain if he had to drive a stick.he had to trade in a recent vette and a viper. he had to get auto's.people with left foot, right shoulder/hand/elbow issues would have trouble shifting. or, just plain old pita in stop and go traffic is a reason.
you sound like a bitoger who chastizes people for smoking, watching t.v., leasing a car, not eating healthy, to name a few.at least he writes in a more discrete and intelligent fashion.
a few of us are getting ready to watch a ball game, and play cards, when we saw this thread.your anti auto comments gave us all a good laugh, and we thank you for that.
you'll buy an auto -- you're just waiting for the first 10 speed. right? hehe.
again, thank you for the entertainment, and have a good evening.let us know when you find out who peed in your cornflakes.
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Originally Posted By: Cristobal
I love manuals, except in traffic.
Likewise. They're great in anything but 5 mph bumper to bumper traffic. I've found if you leave enough distance between you and cars ahead of you, you can minimize having to put the clutch pedal in and just limp along in 1st gear, but mine has a really short 1st.
I've found that if you leave enough space between you and the car in front of you that you should be able to avoid using clutch or brake in traffic, some jerk will simply cut in front of you.
I was actually going to post that! Indeed; leave a safe gap and someone will unsafely fill it. Clutch pedal goes right back in.
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Originally Posted By: Cristobal
I love manuals, except in traffic.
Likewise. They're great in anything but 5 mph bumper to bumper traffic. I've found if you leave enough distance between you and cars ahead of you, you can minimize having to put the clutch pedal in and just limp along in 1st gear, but mine has a really short 1st.
I've found that if you leave enough space between you and the car in front of you that you should be able to avoid using clutch or brake in traffic, some jerk will simply cut in front of you.
I was actually going to post that! Indeed; leave a safe gap and someone will unsafely fill it. Clutch pedal goes right back in.
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
Yikes. At 30,0000 miles per year, I too would also consider it a chore.
Luckily I work at home most of the time and travel 2 days a week in my company car.
I've lived in the sticks basically all my life; even when I lived in a town I was never more than 15 minutes from a highway. [Actually that used to drive me nuts... Hated the fact that was 15 minutes to highway nirvana!] It's only once in a while that I truly regret the drive.
Actually, that brings up an interesting question: if you can drive for a period of time measured in upwards of an hour w/o shifting--does it really count? I mean, you run up the gears and then you're done--only slightly more work than if it was an auto.
Yikes. At 30,0000 miles per year, I too would also consider it a chore.
Luckily I work at home most of the time and travel 2 days a week in my company car.
I've lived in the sticks basically all my life; even when I lived in a town I was never more than 15 minutes from a highway. [Actually that used to drive me nuts... Hated the fact that was 15 minutes to highway nirvana!] It's only once in a while that I truly regret the drive.
Actually, that brings up an interesting question: if you can drive for a period of time measured in upwards of an hour w/o shifting--does it really count? I mean, you run up the gears and then you're done--only slightly more work than if it was an auto.
I agree with what d00df00d said.
The reality is, most people prefer automatics, especially here in the US. In Oz, the new CVT WRX is outselling the manual, which is a big surprise.
MT's will continue to be harder and harder to find. I really enjoy manuals. I've had nothing but manuals the last 15 years. There are also very good auto/CVT's. Some of the best sports cars in the world no longer have MT's.
I've seen a surprisingly high number of people choose the new Subaru CVT over the MT. Some MT's are not that fun to shift.
The reality is, most people prefer automatics, especially here in the US. In Oz, the new CVT WRX is outselling the manual, which is a big surprise.
MT's will continue to be harder and harder to find. I really enjoy manuals. I've had nothing but manuals the last 15 years. There are also very good auto/CVT's. Some of the best sports cars in the world no longer have MT's.
I've seen a surprisingly high number of people choose the new Subaru CVT over the MT. Some MT's are not that fun to shift.
Another thing is the performance gap has changed. AT's often get better mpg than MT now.
We just picked up a 2014 3 S GT. In sport mode it's really good. My wife is the primary driver. If i was driving it often, I would have definitely chose the manual.
We just picked up a 2014 3 S GT. In sport mode it's really good. My wife is the primary driver. If i was driving it often, I would have definitely chose the manual.
Originally Posted By: buster
Another thing is the performance gap has changed. AT's often get better mpg than MT now.
We just picked up a 2014 3 S GT. In sport mode it's really good. My wife is the primary driver. If i was driving it often, I would have definitely chose the manual.
Auto transmissions often get better mileage on the EPA test ... VERY different than real world driving...!
And, I get that urban congestion etc. can really take some of the fun out of driving a stick, it just frustrates me that so few modern "drivers" have any connection whatsoever to their car...
Be it driving a manual, or little things like changing the oil or checking air pressure in the tires... it seems that fewer and fewer drivers give a hoot, or have a clue, about any of it... !
All they want is an appliance, hopefully with the right badge on it so that their friends / family / coworkers will notice and say ... NICE CAR... ! that they know NOTHING about , aside from where the dealer is located and when the next "SERVICE..." is required, maybe...! And learn to drive a stick... ha ha... half these "drivers" couldn't tell you how to change a stinkin' tire...
Another thing is the performance gap has changed. AT's often get better mpg than MT now.
We just picked up a 2014 3 S GT. In sport mode it's really good. My wife is the primary driver. If i was driving it often, I would have definitely chose the manual.
Auto transmissions often get better mileage on the EPA test ... VERY different than real world driving...!
And, I get that urban congestion etc. can really take some of the fun out of driving a stick, it just frustrates me that so few modern "drivers" have any connection whatsoever to their car...
Be it driving a manual, or little things like changing the oil or checking air pressure in the tires... it seems that fewer and fewer drivers give a hoot, or have a clue, about any of it... !
All they want is an appliance, hopefully with the right badge on it so that their friends / family / coworkers will notice and say ... NICE CAR... ! that they know NOTHING about , aside from where the dealer is located and when the next "SERVICE..." is required, maybe...! And learn to drive a stick... ha ha... half these "drivers" couldn't tell you how to change a stinkin' tire...
I dearly love the crowd that plays the macho card regarding shifting manuals. I would like to see them run 80,000 lb of truck and cargo over Vail pass and Eisenhower tunnel, in bad weather and have to deal with an 18 speed manual gear box. You want to play macho, that there separates the men from the boys. Miss a gear on those pulls and you can run into some serious issues, up or down the hill.
It is because I have to deal with situations like this, for 135,000 miles a year, for over 3 decades that I prefer to sit back, relax, and let the automatic do the shifting for me when I hop in my pickup. I have already "proven" myself throughout the week, so now I can enjoy being a handicapped, incompetent driver when I am home on the weekends.
It is because I have to deal with situations like this, for 135,000 miles a year, for over 3 decades that I prefer to sit back, relax, and let the automatic do the shifting for me when I hop in my pickup. I have already "proven" myself throughout the week, so now I can enjoy being a handicapped, incompetent driver when I am home on the weekends.
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
I've never understood the degree of self importance that driving a modern manual transmission brings out in some folks. Modern manual transmissions are simple to operate-even my 60-something year old wife can do it. And I'm quite sure she'd wonder why some of the folks in this thread think it is anything beyond ordinary.
Why some people try to draw more out of the discussion is beyond me. There is no self importance, rather a desire to utilize a driving approach and level of control that feels more natural. There may well be other aspects that are important to folks. If they are important and desired, and particularly if the NRE is performed for other markets, it's stupid for it to not be offered.
The fact that they ARE easy to drive, are simpler, are lighter, etc is justification enough. Having choice in already engineered equipment that is indeed preferable to many is just reasonable.
Of course the reality of the situation doesn't provide the opportunity of folks like yourself to stroke their egos by making an issue out of nothing besides peoples' desire to have choice. So you apparently invent it.
I've never understood the degree of self importance that driving a modern manual transmission brings out in some folks. Modern manual transmissions are simple to operate-even my 60-something year old wife can do it. And I'm quite sure she'd wonder why some of the folks in this thread think it is anything beyond ordinary.
Why some people try to draw more out of the discussion is beyond me. There is no self importance, rather a desire to utilize a driving approach and level of control that feels more natural. There may well be other aspects that are important to folks. If they are important and desired, and particularly if the NRE is performed for other markets, it's stupid for it to not be offered.
The fact that they ARE easy to drive, are simpler, are lighter, etc is justification enough. Having choice in already engineered equipment that is indeed preferable to many is just reasonable.
Of course the reality of the situation doesn't provide the opportunity of folks like yourself to stroke their egos by making an issue out of nothing besides peoples' desire to have choice. So you apparently invent it.
This is what, the 6,439th third lamenting the death of manual transmissions?
To those folks whining about driving in traffic with a stick, well you don't think they have heavy traffic in Europe, actually over all it is MORE congested over there, yet most folks still go for the manual transmission.
I think a lot of it is people in the US have been conditioned by marketers into the default of buying an automatic.
I think a lot of it is people in the US have been conditioned by marketers into the default of buying an automatic.
Yep, good point.
Macho, huh?
My wife, you know, a girl, owned a stick Civic when I met her and mostly drove sticks for the first twenty five years of our marriage.
Ain't nothing too hard about driving a typical stick in any passenger car or light truck. The test of how good you are is that you can drive without touching the clutch after a standing start. If you can master clutchless shifts with no grinding, just a smooth drop into the next gear up or down, then you actually have something to brag about. Paying attention to road speeds in gears as well as having a tach helps you learn this not all that valuable skill and it is really easy with some gearboxes. My wife can't do it, has never tried and acts unimpressed when I show her how it's done.
The first automatic we bought because we actually wanted an automatic was the '09 Forester in my sig. Her left knee sometimes bothers her, so she would just as soon not have a stick as a daily driver these days and I'd always wanted an AWD Subaru, so there you go.
For the record, she really liked and likes the Forester.
Me too.
Macho, huh?
My wife, you know, a girl, owned a stick Civic when I met her and mostly drove sticks for the first twenty five years of our marriage.
Ain't nothing too hard about driving a typical stick in any passenger car or light truck. The test of how good you are is that you can drive without touching the clutch after a standing start. If you can master clutchless shifts with no grinding, just a smooth drop into the next gear up or down, then you actually have something to brag about. Paying attention to road speeds in gears as well as having a tach helps you learn this not all that valuable skill and it is really easy with some gearboxes. My wife can't do it, has never tried and acts unimpressed when I show her how it's done.
The first automatic we bought because we actually wanted an automatic was the '09 Forester in my sig. Her left knee sometimes bothers her, so she would just as soon not have a stick as a daily driver these days and I'd always wanted an AWD Subaru, so there you go.
For the record, she really liked and likes the Forester.
Me too.
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