Why Don't people enjoy driving a manual trans??

[Artem]

Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
I've never understood the degree of self importance that driving a modern manual transmission brings out in some folks. Modern manual transmissions are simple to operate-even my 60-something year old wife can do it. And I'm quite sure she'd wonder why some of the folks in this thread think it is anything beyond ordinary.

If you really feel the need to prove your prowess with a transmission, go drive a real manual transmission, something like a 5 and 4 that takes some real skill and timing to operate. My guess is that 95% of the folks crowing about their manual transmission skills wouldn't have the foggiest notion of how to drive anything outside of their dumbed down, synchronized, so easy that ladies in their 60's can do it, modern manual transmission.


This thread isn't about whether people can handle a 16 speed Semi Truck or some other old beater that requires double clutching.

I'm personally seen and driven with people who own stick shift car but DONT ACTUALLY DRIVE IT PROPERLY!

Your 60 year old granny can row through the gears, while the car jerks with each shift but it doesn't mean that she can drive it PROPERLY. Don't even get me started on proper rev matching downshifts in order to have an ultra smooth downshift regardless of the gear or speed. Many fail in this aspect because I constantly see cars display a huge jerk as the driver throws it into a higher gear without re matching and simply dumps the clutch like its normal.

I prefer to only own and drive a stick because I like to be fully in control of the machine I'm driving. I have auto headlights, auto AC, or auto anything that does a pre-programmed thing, regardless if you actually want it to not.

 

[geeman789]

Originally Posted By: jigen
Depends on the vehicle. I don't enjoy driving MT on trucks. I would much rather an auto...
.


I drive a manual trans car, and have never owned an automatic in 30 years... ! Yes, I am one of THOSE GUYS...

I did, however, recently drive a poorly maintained 5 ton truck with a manual tranny ( I volunteered after the "anybody drive a stick...? Got no replies...). and let me tell you, it was BRUTAL! 2 ft long gear shift with no "feel" whatsoever, so much play that it was impossible to consistently find any gear. The clutch was super stiff, and engaged like a light switch...off or on. I drove in city traffic for an hour, and it was THE WORST driviing experience of my life... if that was my only experience with driving a stick, I would never , EVER do it again.

The upside...? When I got back into my car, it felt like the most polished, refined car ever... smooth, light clutch, crisp, accurate shifter...just a dream to drive...!

Then I hit rush hour traffic... !

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: magnus308
Originally Posted By: Clubber_Lang
I just don't get it. I think driving a standard transmission has so many advantages, including better/more engaging driving experience, (often) longer transmission life, ect.


Some people prefer to ride a vehicle instead of actually drive it

In sweden A/T also known here as "handicapbox" was 20 years ago mostly used by old people or handicapped who had lost some driving skills but now its more and more common with A/T but its still by far more cars with manual transmission.

One reason is probably because if do the driverlicense test with a A/T equipped car you are not allowed to drive a M/T car until you have done the test again with a M/T car.
If you do the test in a M/T car then you can drive both M/T and A/T so 99% of all people learn to drive in a M/T car to get a driver license for both M/T and A/T.

In my own opinion A/T is more comfortable but its sooo boring to drive..


Same in Germany. If you take your test in an A/T you get a restricted license.
I don't care automatic or manual, it makes no difference to me.
A car for me is a true appliance and i treat it as such. I like some cars but not because i like to drive them, just owning them is okay for me driving it doesn't matter.

I drove one car 100 miles last year and have a couple of cars that i haven't driven in years. There is the occasional car i really enjoy driving like the old MB Diesel or the Lotus Cortina but they are few and far between
I prefer bikes and have since i got on my first BSA Lightning and Norton 750 Commando over 40 years ago. The joy of a big 2 stoke 3 cyl engine is still magic for me since my first ride on a Kawa 500.

 

[Volvohead]

I like the greater intimacy between driver and vehicle that a manual provides, but only on certain vehicles, typically the sportier ones.

On some cars, I prefer to pick the exact shift point, depending on where I am in the power band, on what the vehicle is presently doing, and on what I want the vehicle to do. That may or may not be where a TCM wants to make the shift. I guess a tiptronic type slush box will do the same thing for most. But working a clutch is a skill I've long honed.

If it's now a forgotten art, I guess it also makes the car harder to steal.

If I'm just clomping around in heavy traffic and/or on a long trip, an automatic has its advantages for sure.

I like and have both.

 

[d00df00d]

The "traffic" argument never made sense to me.

Yes, I dislike driving stick in traffic. No argument there. Pain is pain.

At the same time:

1. An automatic doesn't make sitting in traffic feel okay, and
2. Everything besides creeping in traffic is worse with an automatic.

Stick + traffic = possible pain. Automatic + traffic = guaranteed crushing boredom. I guess I can't speak for anyone else, but the latter generally seems worse to me.

Getting an automatic just because of traffic seems like a non-fix for the wrong problem. It's like wearing sun glasses indoors just because your computer's screen is too bright. You're missing the real problem, and the solution makes everything else worse.

 

[ls1mike]

I have both one is RWD and makes just over 400 hp to the wheels. The 6 speed T56 is awesome to row through the gears. However some days I just don't feel like rowing...
The Grand Prix with mods is probably 290hp 320 FT/lbs of torque to wheels. It is nice to put it in drive and hit the go pedal some days especially with the new converter...

I have to go through Subase Bangor security everyday. It is stop and go and as much as I love driving a stick and the Trans Am an automatic is nice some mornings when I am just not feeling the Mcleod twin disk that is in the Trans Am.

 

[fdcg27]

Clutchless shifts are really easy with some synchro gearboxes, even without a tach.
I'm thinking of our old '76 Civic as well as an old '65 GMC 3/4 ton 4X4, where first was just a granny gear.
It's even easier with a tach, once you know the appropriate revs for the next gear up or down for any given road speed.
I drove one of our '86 Civic Wagons clutchlessly for about a week on my commute, and even made sone daring two upshift clutchless two-lane passes..
My old MGB was also very easy to drive without using the clutch.
This is part of the fun of driving a stick.
You just drop smoothly and silently into the next gear.
It's smoother than shifting using the clutch.

 

[antiqueshell]

Originally Posted By: css9450



What makes you think people who drive sticks don't talk on the phone, eat or drink in the car?

I've seen people so engaged in conversation that they suddenly find themselves lurching up to a red light in 5th gear because they completely forgot to press in on the clutch. Or they press in on the clutch and leave it in 5th when the light turns green and stall the car. Not on the phone either - they were talking to their own passengers. Having a stick does not make one immune to distractions.



I never said it ELIMINATES the distractions, it certainly DOES reduce the ability of knuckleheads to engage in other activities though.

 

[badtlc]

Until the MTX is no longer the most efficient "transmission," I'm going to own one. It is safer, more efficient and flat out more fun to drive.

And if they still exist in 10 years, my kids first cars will have an MTX or they won't have a car at all.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
I dearly love the crowd that plays the macho card regarding shifting manuals. I would like to see them run 80,000 lb of truck and cargo over Vail pass and Eisenhower tunnel, in bad weather and have to deal with an 18 speed manual gear box.

As in your situation, my dad used to drive truck many, many years ago, and couldn't be bothered with a manual in a personal vehicle unless it was necessary.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Yep, good point.
Macho, huh?
My wife, you know, a girl, owned a stick Civic when I met her and mostly drove sticks for the first twenty five years of our marriage.
Ain't nothing too hard about driving a typical stick in any passenger car or light truck. The test of how good you are is that you can drive without touching the clutch after a standing start. If you can master clutchless shifts with no grinding, just a smooth drop into the next gear up or down, then you actually have something to brag about. Paying attention to road speeds in gears as well as having a tach helps you learn this not all that valuable skill and it is really easy with some gearboxes. My wife can't do it, has never tried and acts unimpressed when I show her how it's done.
The first automatic we bought because we actually wanted an automatic was the '09 Forester in my sig. Her left knee sometimes bothers her, so she would just as soon not have a stick as a daily driver these days and I'd always wanted an AWD Subaru, so there you go.
For the record, she really liked and likes the Forester.
Me too.


My wife grew up driving MT vehicles in terrain far more challenging than most anyone here drives in, when the steepness and curvature of grades are considered. Not a brag, just came to mind when you mentioned about your wife - youre right, females do often also prefer MTs. Mine still prefers MTs over auto, not because she is a car person, just because its what she is used to and likes. Nothing wrong with that.

But I agree, there is not necessarily a superiority aspect, a machismo aspect, nor a chest thumping aspect. One need not drive a heavy truck or unsynchronized transmission to have a reasonable skill, and because the latest ones, especially if done right, are so easy to drive and so smooth, why not? Personal choice, but it would be nice to still have the choice.

 

[PF52]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Originally Posted By: css9450



What makes you think people who drive sticks don't talk on the phone, eat or drink in the car?

I've seen people so engaged in conversation that they suddenly find themselves lurching up to a red light in 5th gear because they completely forgot to press in on the clutch. Or they press in on the clutch and leave it in 5th when the light turns green and stall the car. Not on the phone either - they were talking to their own passengers. Having a stick does not make one immune to distractions.



I never said it ELIMINATES the distractions, it certainly DOES reduce the ability of knuckleheads to engage in other activities though.


It doesn't hinder the guy some pages back who says that he can still eat and use the phone on his manual-tranny car - because he steers with his knee!

A distracted driver is a distracted driver no matter what transmission he has. And an attentive driver is an attentive driver no matter what transmission he has.

 

[antiqueshell]

Originally Posted By: css9450


I never said it ELIMINATES the distractions, it certainly DOES reduce the ability of knuckleheads to engage in other activities though.

Quote:

It doesn't hinder the guy some pages back who says that he can still eat and use the phone on his manual-tranny car - because he steers with his knee!


A distracted driver is a distracted driver no matter what transmission he has. And an attentive driver is an attentive driver no matter what transmission he has.

Ah, no, not every genius that drives has the ability to do that degree of multitasking, if you are determined to be an idiot there is not much we can do however for many drivers that extra amount of concentration needed and hand too, is just enough to limit the tomfoolery with many drivers.

 

[jimbrewer]

I've been told that a used Corvette with a manual transmission has an advantage on the used car market. If so, they must be about the only one.

I prefer a manual. BUT: Not all manuals are created equal. A manual Toyota will be a little more fun to shift than a manual Nissan. It just will. I learned to drive a manual on an English sedan. It just felt like the most natural thing in the world. Many years later I had the experience of shifting on a Land Rover Defender. Same feel. Weird. My old Dodge truck was nothing like that. There were throws about a foot and a half long from gear to gear. On the other hand, it had a double low gear (redline 6 mph) that was like a force of nature in 4 wheel drive.

I think a manual has lots of hidden advantages. Like theft deterence. Your average 20 year old drug addict has no knowledge of how to drive a stick. Good. When my college student graduates into a world of basement apartments and marginal neighborhoods I intend to make sure my kid at least knows how to drive a manual transmission and at least have that option. There's a price advantage as so many have pointed out. There is still a performance advantage, at least at the low end. I expect a Nissan Versa manual is a lot more responsive than a CVT version.

I don't think there is a cost of ownership advantage though. Have you priced a clutch replacement lately?

 

[expat]

In the UK and Europe cars tended to have smaller capacity engines that really took a hit in performance and economy when mated to the 3 speed AT's of the past.
AT was not popular.

In North America, in years past, engines tended to be much larger, MT's (in my experiance) tended to be bulky and slow, clutches were heavy, hence AT's were more popular.

If you learn MT early on I think you will always find an AT lacking.
We have a Toyota Matrix with an AT (purchased when my wife required shoulder surgery) , it works well, but never seems to do just what I want, when I want.

 

[sciphi]

City traffic is pretty bad, even in a good manual. Our city car has a auto, while the highway car has a stick. Considering that even around here in Suburbia, NY we have traffic, it's worth having one of each in the garage depending on where we're going.

I do want my eventual kids to have the experience of driving a manual, as they likely won't have the opportunity later in life.

 

[PF52]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell

Quote:

It doesn't hinder the guy some pages back who says that he can still eat and use the phone on his manual-tranny car - because he steers with his knee!


A distracted driver is a distracted driver no matter what transmission he has. And an attentive driver is an attentive driver no matter what transmission he has.

Ah, no, not every genius that drives has the ability to do that degree of multitasking, if you are determined to be an idiot there is not much we can do however for many drivers that extra amount of concentration needed and hand too, is just enough to limit the tomfoolery with many drivers.


So you're saying a manual tranny makes a bad driver better?

LOL

 

[badtlc]

Originally Posted By: css9450

So you're saying a manual tranny makes a bad driver better?

LOL


I know one person this is true for. She is a flighty, ditsy girl who can't concentrate more than about 10 seconds. Always texting, talking, etc. She had an early accident at 17 y/o (about 8-9 years ago). That wasn't really her fault but it could have been avoided (don't tell her that) and she was just a scary person to ride with in general. She was a terrible driver and her replacement car ended up being an MTX for lack of choices in her price range. She is still driving that thing and has never been in another accident and is a totally different driver with the MTX. She now understands stop light timing, not rushing to stop signs, defensive driving, maintaining safe clearances, etc.

Edmunds did a survey that indicate MTX owners paid less in auto insurance than ATX owners. Whether this was because they were just better drivers, insurance companies see MTX as a safer option or whatever, it is unknown. But it does indicate the insurance companies see less risk in the MTX owners for some reason.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: Clubber_Lang
I just don't get it. I think driving a standard transmission has so many advantages, including better/more engaging driving experience, (often) longer transmission life, ect.


Like everything else, there are both advantages AND disadvantages with a manual transmission. My wife cannot operate a clutch due to a foot injury from many years ago, so it (a manual) doesn't work for a primary vehicle for us. We swap vehicles around often enough depending on circumstances such that both of our primary vehicles need to have automatics. And that's fine with me; I sit in enough traffic where I just don't care to work a clutch all the time. I've owned two manual transmission vehicles and I thoroughly enjoyed them both. I'd own one in the future, but in a third/fun vehicle only.

 

[PF52]

Originally Posted By: badtlc

I know one person this is true for. She is a flighty, ditsy girl who can't concentrate more than about 10 seconds. Always texting, talking, etc. She had an early accident at 17 y/o (about 8-9 years ago). That wasn't really her fault but it could have been avoided (don't tell her that) and she was just a scary person to ride with in general. She was a terrible driver and her replacement car ended up being an MTX for lack of choices in her price range. She is still driving that thing and has never been in another accident and is a totally different driver with the MTX. She now understands stop light timing, not rushing to stop signs, defensive driving, maintaining safe clearances, etc.


Give her time. She hasn't learned to steer with her knee yet. She'll be texting again in no time.

Originally Posted By: badtlc
Edmunds did a survey that indicate MTX owners paid less in auto insurance than ATX owners. Whether this was because they were just better drivers, insurance companies see MTX as a safer option or whatever, it is unknown. But it does indicate the insurance companies see less risk in the MTX owners for some reason.


Oh? My insurance charges more for a stick, at least they do for any car I've ever considered. I've owned plenty of each.

Maybe they charge less for an "appliance" car with a stick, perhaps.