Why do some people think so highly of Auto OEM's???

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9,448
Location
USA
Domestics OEM meaning Ford and GM and routine problems: Intake Mainfold Failures Premature and Freq.Gasket Failures (pick a gasket or seal) Excessive oil consumption piston slap electrical issues premature rotor failure premature sealed bearing/hub failure premature power steering failure premature water pump failure etc......... European Import Issues Electrical ignition parts water pumps fuel pumps sludge Toyota Sludge PCV issues Head Gasket Issue on select older truck V6's recent steering knuckle recall to listen to some you would think that these OEM's are all powerful all knowing and out to bring truth, love and justice to all! To me I see a bunch of people trying their best to comprimise and still end up with something close to the products origanal vision. Most problems in the Automotive world are caused by bean counters in purchaseing!!!! Usualy even a novice can look at something that is questionable and see that it is not going to hold up or work as origanaly designed. The problem is that often a part or system is not re-valadated simply because of a simple change or 20 small different un-related changes. This is when things go terrable wrong. I do not see where someone questioning a recomendation from companies with the above track records is that bad! Do you question your doctor and take an active role in your health care or do you simple set back shut up and do as you are told?? I would think it dumb not to actively particapate in my health care!! I also tink it is not to bright to blindly follow recomendations concerning your car. No one knows your driveing habits and environment like you do! No single recomendation could ever fit ever possable usage model. This is why I like the vanishing SAE Temp./Viscosity chart that used to be common place in owners manuals!
 
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936
Location
Pittsburgh,PA
I think most view OEM stuff as better due to the idea of "they built it, they would know best how to make things that will work the best FOR it". Thats my idea anyways.
 
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7,430
Location
beaver land EH?
Hi John, Not to go against you: I have dealt with many "so-called" aftermarket parts like newly manufactured distributors(replacement), waterpumps, viscous fan coupler, etc. and I must say that none of them last as long as the factory originals. I have aftermarket waterpumps that failed in 3 mnths time, distributor for Honda(Tec) that would miss shortly after installation, I got spark plug wires (Bosch) that would tear off the boot part after just 1 tug, etc. and the list goes on and on... My 2c's worth
 
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7,409
Location
Austin, TX
JB, I'll disagree with you on one major point. 95% of the problems aren't due to design and engineering, they're are due cost cutting and lack of quality control in manufacturing. I'm sure you can point to the occasional engineering fubar like GM intake manifold gaskets, but my direct experience in the automotive industry has the origins of the problems at the manufacturing facilities, most of which are contracted out nowadays, and are managed by engineering wannabe's MBA types. But I do agree with Quest. Most of the aftermarket OEM replacement parts are junk, especially so called rebuilt starters, alternators, waterpumps and the like. P.S. I didn't know it was the bean counters that swipe the Temp/Viscosity charts from owners manuals, I thought it was the evil EPA. [Big Grin] [ June 21, 2006, 11:24 PM: Message edited by: 427Z06 ]
 
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23,892
Location
CA
quote:
P.S. I didn't know it was the bean counters that swipe the Temp/Viscosity charts from owners manuals, I thought it was the evil EPA.
Actually, it was due to illiterate consumers who cannot interpret charts properly, thus choosing the wrong oil. (My guess)
 
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1,908
Location
Fort Worth, TX
Here's one you'll "enjoy" (a sad ending for the mighty 727 TORQUEFLITE and LOADFLITE): http://www.dodgetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103516 Posts #8 and #10, especially: "What got me bent out shape at Chrysler is when they were told what it would cost per vehicle to correct the problem, they refused to do it. The cost per vehicle broke down to .003 cents per transmission, in other words less than half a penny per truck to correct a problem that costs a customer thousands of dollars."
 
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537
Location
California
My experience has always been that OEM parts were better than aftermarket with very rare exceptions, except tires, lights, and shock absorbers. Tires, lights, and shocks are almost always better from aftermarket. Even British parts are better OEM. After 12 years as a mechanic I saw that most amatuer car repair enthusiasts got themselves into trouble using aftermarket parts.
 
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1,613
Location
WA
What does this have to do with Car and Truck engine oil? [I dont know] I would think with 5,000 plus post. You would know this isn't the forum to ask these questions.
 
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1,116
Location
Huntsville, AL
quote:
Originally posted by Finklejag: What does this have to do with Car and Truck engine oil? [I dont know]
I think it has alot to do with oil. People blindly follow OEM reccomendations on viscosity and oci when it's not in the manufactor's best interest to allow your car to last a long time without problems. Look at how many 'lifetime' fluids for transmissions there are now. They clearly don't have our interest at heart with such recomendations, they want it to be replaced at 100k miles!
 
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1,027
Location
East Helena, Montana
Most of these OEM parts are NOT made by the manufacturer of the vehicle. The vehicle manufacturer buys the parts from independent companies that themselves manufacture the parts, companies that also sell the same parts in the "aftermarket". Granted, for a given part, some companies make the part better than others, so if YOU buy in the aftermarket you have to be careful what you buy. On the other hand, a lot of the stuff that the vehicle manufacturers buy from the independent parts suppliers is junk. If you buy the part from the dealership, all you're buying is a part that you could probably get in the aftermarket, and often you could get a higher quality version of the part from a different company, and at a cheaper price than the dealership would charge for a cheaper version of the part.
 
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87
Location
St. Peters, Mo.
"Most of these OEM parts are NOT made by the manufacturer of the vehicle" Right on the money! Years ago both Ford and GM went to great lengths to get everything in house to control not just cost but also quality. Then when competition from overseas was felt they looked outside for better price and worried less about quality. I don't even think it's about not writing the specs tight enough, but rather indifferent inspection of outside supplied parts when they arrive. The infamous evil intake gaskets at GM were actually designed by a major gasket supplier not to be cheap but to come up with a better way of sealing new style fluids. It's interesting that said same supplier has done quite well selling "improved" gaskets for these same vehicles. In some cases, such as Moog, the aftermarket are not only better but also more expensive. But I can remember changing the same water pump on a Corolla 4 times because the owner wanted to bring me his own pump, I felt bad for him and changed out the first replacement for free, but he paid for the next two, the parts store kept handing him new ones and saying their warranty didn't cover labor. Since the Toyota one was 3 times the cost he probably came out OK on this transaction but in the long run the OEM part was a better choice.
 
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1,779
Location
Central Iowa
I think that it also depends on the aftermarket manufacturer. There are some aftermarket parts that are superior to OEM, others that are as good, others that are garbage.
 
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866
Location
Norway
In European Union you can choose any aftermarket part that is built to designers spesification and which service garage you want to do the repair. This will not effect guarantee on car, due too EU regulations/law.
 
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12,385
Location
Northern CA
quote:
Originally posted by bar1: In European Union you can choose any aftermarket part that is built to designers spesification and which service garage you want to do the repair. This will not effect guarantee on car, due too EU regulations/law.
That sounds nice, but since auto manufacturers don't release full specifications on all their parts, that's hard to do [Big Grin]
 
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866
Location
Norway
quote:
Originally posted by XS650: That sounds nice, but since auto manufacturers don't release full specifications on all their parts, that's hard to do [Big Grin]
Your right, but most "service parts" can be found aftermarket (with OEM spec). And you can still buy OEM parts and have your favourite garage do the work.
 

JohnBrowning

Thread starter
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9,448
Location
USA
I apoligise I did not make my point clear. First I agree with you 427Z06 that most of the problems are cost cutting measures wich is what I meant buy my "bean counter purchaseing" statment in the origanal post. Haveing worked in forensic quality control I also understand assembly errors very well.I am also not refering to after market parts so much as independent thought on the oil viscosity recomendation. I will also agree that in some cases the OEM's parts are clearly better then what is on the after market but this is not always the case! It terms of engineering in almost all cases the origanal part that was validated is ok. The problem usualy happens when the bean counters in purchaseing get a hold of things! They keep squeezeing the supplier for cost reduction so then the suppliers engineers try their best to reduce cost. Sometimes the origanal release engineer is consulted sometimes not. The supplier see the moeny saved and ok's the change before any valadation can even be started. Then you end up with 200,000 vechiles that need to be recalled. Usual the so called second design is actualy the design engineer's origanal design simply put back into production. If the changes had been valadated wich cost money then they would never have been put into production. This happens as a matter of normalacy at GM. The bean counters in purchaseing have more power then the engineers wich is why they have so many long term and repeat problems. I have no doubt that most engineers can make a durable water pump, leak free gasket etc... if given a free hand! If anything my truest problem with engineers would be for being so spineless as to sit back and take it like they have from bean counters and marketing directors! If enough people speak up and take pride in what they are doing this would not still be going on! Managers, accountants and marketing directors should never have more input then the engineers!! Too many managers, accountants and marketing directors know nothing or very little about the things they are makeing important decisions on. Look at NASA. They are a classic study in what can happen when managment decisions put ahead of good engineering and science.They are also a study of what happens when group think and complancency sets in. Too many people were un-willing to put their foot down and speak the truth.
 

JohnBrowning

Thread starter
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9,448
Location
USA
I have found that for Toyota ignition and fuel parts like cap,rotor, TPS sensor,coils on the under cap coils are usualy OEM parts. The box will say NAPA on it but the part inside is usualy adorned with Toyota and Denso name on them and the OEM part number. As to starters,water pumps,clutch fans etc...I almost always get them from AutoZone even if they are not as good as the OEM part due to their lifetime warranty and no need to keep the reciept. If I am doing a rebuild on an import I have no problem useing non-oem part so long as they are from good companies like TRW,Fedral Mogal,Sealed Power,JE Pistons,Hastings,Clevite etc.......Same thing goes for belts and hoses GoodYear and Gates booth make belts that are up to standards. I have also found that with Domestics especialy GM that most of their suppliers sell their excess capacity to other companies. You can often find the aftermarket parts made by the same supplier as those that made the OEM part. It just depends on the contract. Sometimes OEM forbid the sale of excess capacity from a supplier.
 
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2,387
Location
Chicago area
We take for granted the great majority of parts that last and are well built. One small example is Ford ignition wires - they have always been top quality. We just don't think about them. Problems sure get our attention, though. Look at the bright side, at least our Govt' is not building cars!
 
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