Why do people replace cars that can be repaired?

[PowerPeeCee]

Most people seem to almost have contempt for their cars, though, a mode of thinking to which I cannot subscribe. "Take care of it, and it will reward you" and all.

One of my major gripes is people won't even change the bulbs on their cars, I drive a Ford Taurus, and Ford being...well.. Ford.. uses the cheapest bulbs they can find for the side marker lights, instrumentation illumination, under-dash courtesy lights, and the center brake light, and very nearly every Taurus/Sable I see has burned out all of those, I seem to be the only Taurus owner in the world who will, in addition to taking care of the mechanical parts, and doing regular fluid changes, will be sure that the car has no burned out lights.

I even tore apart the dash on mine because the aforementioned uber-cheap bulbs that Ford used behind the instrumentation all burned out but one, got some sylvania 194LL bulbs to replace them with and haven't had any issues since.

I had to remove the radio (the Taurus "ICP / Integrated Control Panel AKA the football AKA the Insane Clown Posse

"), the headlight switch, two dash trim panels, the big thing with the HVAC vents around the instrument cluster, and finally the instruments themselves to change 5 194 bulbs because the sods at Ford couldn't be arsed to using a halfway decent bulb from the factory. This whas when the car was 7 years old.I expect this kind of merde from a 20 year old car, not a 7 year old one. (I hope it makes it to 20, LOL Ford Taurus LOL)

And I didn't even know mine had the under-dash "courtesy lights" because they had both burned out, I was looking what what's under the dash out of curiosity after I bought it and discovered "Hey, there's a place for a bulb down here". I like the under dash lights, it's like "Excuse me senator, your shoe is untied

"

The point I'm trying to make here is that most people wouldn't have gone to the trouble to fix anything that required as much disassembly, and the automakers know this, people let their autos go to pot, and then go and buy another.

I think the only reasonable explanation for this, and I hope you'll forgive my misanthropy, is that most people are just terribly stupid, simple creatures that will almost always take the path of least resistance. They are completely unconcerned with anything other than what will make their own life easier, and a pox on anyone who would move to change that.

I think the fact that people don't care for their cars is simply a reflection of the fact that people do not care for anything they purchase and own anymore. I can't find anyone who has even the slightest idea of how most of the devices they spend their money on work, or how to repair them.

Most seem content to be dumb as stone, and have the personality of the same.

Maybe it's because I live in Memphis, TN, not a lot (Read:zero) scholarly people around here. In fact I would say that most of them are terrifyingly, dreadfully stupid. I would also say that they seem to like it that way

.

I really don't like people anymore, this is why I appreciate BITOG, where the forum members seem to have at least a reasonable level of intelligence, and a decent grasp of the English language.

See http://www.taurusclub.com/forum/index.php?act=portal for an example of the level of "English" spoken by those who are nearer to my age I had a discussion with one of the forum members there over the fact that "Vehical" is not a correct spelling. Their response was that the spellcheck there erroneously approved it that way. (I'm all of 25, and already bitter and angry, I thoroughly despise stupid people, absolutely hate them with the fire of a thousand suns)

Sorry for the long post.

 

[HawkeyeScott]

I'm surprised there are so many people here who subscribe to the 'new car theory'. On a forum dedicated to educating people about motor oil and other automotive issues, I think it's interesting that more of us aren't "fix it" people.

This past summer, my 1997 Crown Vic was approaching 90K miles. It needed new tires, new brakes and before long, a new intake and new plugs and wires. However, the car was two months from being paid off. Since I planned on keeping the car for at least a year after paying it off (in order to free up money for some home improvements), I decided to bite the bullet and sink about $1500 into the needed repairs and maintenance. To me, that was better than trading off a 10-year-old car that had issues and getting next to nothing, on a car I'd spend the next 4, 5 or even 6 years paying for.

Now, I've got a car with 102K that runs fine. I'm using the $300 a month I had been paying every month on the car for other things. Granted, it's a 1997 CV with 102K miles, but to me it's still got a lot of life in it. Besides, it's worth a heck of a lot more to me than a dealer on trade.

 

[otis24]

For some, it comes to reliablilty. "I can fix this, but what will break next?" Secondly, there is the issue of "Do I put $2000 to fix a $1500 vehicle?".
Not really worth it unless you plan to keep it and drive the vehicle to get the use out of it. There is also the security of making a long trip in a new vehicle knowing that you won't break down (hopefully).
For those of limited financial means, they may not have $1500-2000 cash to pay for a repair. It costs them more in the long run to buy a new vehicle but they get to make
payments. Expensive financing, agreed, but some people have no choice.

 

[mazduh30]

Maybe it's just an excuse to buy a new car.

 

[cmhj]

Well, I'm on my 3rd wife?

 

[The_Jeff]

I buy several beaters a year, fix extremely simple problems, get them state-inspection worthy, and flip 'em.

A pattern I notice is I'm buying mostly cars that were given to their present owners, by someone in their family with more money and similar (eg zero) car sense. Most of the time it's 20-somethings with stupid parents who won't let go.

Exhibit A, a car that turned out to have a bad coolant temp sensor that ran rich and poisoned the o2 sensor and fouled a spark plug. Admittedly, one (incompetent) mechanic looked the thing over and decided it needed a motor. But the SES light was on, the code was for cyl 3 misfire, and the cyl 3 plug was bridged with carbon.

I fixed this in the street, slapped my plates on, and drove home.

Seller consulted an online forum, where people said "it's something simple", but she was heck-bent on dumping the car. Despite claims of poverty she had a 2002ish Nissan. (?) Her question was not "how do I fix this car" it was "how do I sell it"-- proof that her mind was already made up.

Online me suggests if she really wanted to get rid of it to use a couple popular want-ad rags, start the price high, and drop it if it doesn't sell. In-person me shows up months later when the ad finally runs and lowballs and seller blubbers "I'll take anything, I just want it gone."

 

[road_rascal]

I agree with you PowerPeeCee- it's easy (for me) to work on my Taurus, I enjoy the relatively inexpensive parts for it, and I wouldn't hesitate driving it across the US and back. I could give a rip if people look down on me/ my wife for driving a 'lowly' vehicle.

 

[JHZR2]

IMHO, some folks consider large $ value repairs on an old car a point where the old car owns the owner, not the other way around.

What I mean is, say you have a 10+ year old car, with over 100k miles on it. Even if it is a honda, it isnt worth much more than $4000, and has some wear and tear... Say that some large quantity of repairs is necessary, like suspension rebuild of rubber parts, some engine issue, etc. Repairs can easily come to $1500...

Now, consider that most everyone finances a new or recent used car, and looks to pay $2-400/month. That one repair is the equivalent of a few new car payments, without the hassle of getting a car fixed and having to deal with its lack of utility while in the shop.

Need a $1000 repair or PM more than a few times, particularly within a short time period, and guess what??? its easy for some to justify replacement over repair.

Me, I dont bat an eyelid putting $1500 into PM and wear item/semi-wear item replacement. Our cars easily run to over 200k miles, and still look and operate like new while doing it. Our vehicles are fully reliable despite being very high mileage, because we use and treat them with respect and with the correct maintenance. Its the cost of the privledge of owning and using a vehicle on the public roads.

JMH

 

[HawkeyeScott]

JHZR2,

You raise a great point in your final paragraph: Is the car worth putting money into? When I looked at my situation last summer, I asked myself that question. If I sink $1500 into this car now, what are the chances I'll have to do the same thing again in the next 5 months? (LOGIC: 5 months of paying $300 payments = $1500)

I decided that the type of car I'm driving (CrVics) are generally thought of as solid cars. Good motors, good transmissions, fine suspension, etc. Would it be very out of the ordinary to expect more high dollar repairs in the very near future? The research I've done on these cars, and from what I hear about others' experience, I decided it would be. So I spent the money and began holding my breath.

I'm still holding my breath today, but happy to report that there have been no issues since then. The car seems ready to go. As of this minute today, I feel like I made the fiscally wise choice.

 

[Ray Garlington]

Stewart Fan in response to my comment:

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

people will spend a lot of money on status items, fads, and changes in style. It is all a part of the need to keep up with the Jones's. It is not about being practical or logical.

---

Sounds like someone is jealous.

Because I choose to work hard so I can afford nice things,that makes me impractical or illogical?

If you want to drive around in a POS be my guest.

---

Thank you for demonstrating my point. Your answer to: "Why replace a car that can be repaired?" is "I work hard so I can afford nice things". Your obvious logic error demonstrates that you are not about logic. Furthermore, your attitude isn't about being practical either. For some reason "nice things" and making others feel jealous makes you feel good.

The irony is delicious. Thanks.

 

[Norm Olt]

LouDawg hit the nail on its head: MOST people can't afford to finance a $1500-2500 repair on their present car because they don't have the available credit, cash flow or SAVINGS to float it.

They are SO overextended that there is no room. They can trade it in broken on a new (or "newer") vehicle even if they are upside down on the loan. There are always the people who will (gladly) "finance anyone the law allows". Doesn't matter what the new debt amount will be: if the payment doesn't change, why worry about whether it will ever be paid off?

Irresponsibility is the most common financial plan out there. The mail is full of unsolicitated credit cards, most of which go to people that would NEVER be offered additional credit 30 years ago. Who do you think pays for this?

Savings rate in the US may as well be negative.

The comment about the "rich doing those thing that made them rich vs. the poor..." is on target, too.

Unfortunately in our degenerate society the whiney, incompetant pseudo-victims feel they are ENTITLED to be rescued by their profligate nanny-governments (local, county, State & Federal) because they learn it in the schools and the MEDIA constantly tells them they are...

Cheers!

p.s. Where is the gremlin showing the car being repo'ed and the debtor being led away to jail?

 

[The_Jeff]

I remember a lady on the phone with my mechanic.

Her alternator had failed and the mechanic gave her an estimate, and a battery charge.

She had lost the estimate and wanted another, as the battery had run down again.

Then she said fudge it, she was trading it in.

Am sure the dealer could smell the desperation as the car lurched in with the battery light on. That desperation probably earned them an extra thousand bucks between not budging on the new car, and lowballing the trade.

Would have been better getting the alternator, and taking her time to select a new car.

 

[Bamaro]

Quote:

---

Whenever an engine, transmission or other vital part goes, people seem to think they need to buy a new car, even though the engine/transmission/other-part can be replaced (or rebuilt in the case of the engine). Cars are depreciating assets, so why spend an exorbitant amount of money on a new car when an old one can be repaired for a fraction of the amount? I recall the argument that the repairs on an old car will eventually cost the same as a new car, but by the same logic, a person would buy several new cars during the time that it would take for that to happen, so the notion of buying a new car because of a bad/leaking engine/transmission/whatever-component does not make any sense to me.

Would someone please shed some light on this?

---

Three reasons (in order):
1. conspicuous consumption
2. technological improvements
3. rust

 

[Mach5]

I like working on cars, although I prefer to do it at my convenience instead of the car's to avoid downtime (i.e, preventative maintenance).

The last vehicle I got rid of (about 2.5 years ago) was an '83 S10 that I got for free from a friend. It had been auctioned off by a local college that had used it for campus police duty; after that campus maintenance had used it. Upon completing basic maintenance, I utilized it for some home improvement work. And by the way, I worked it HARD. I can easily afford a brand new one, but I liked my old truck. I've never bought a new car, anyway. After almost 3 years, I had to get rid of it because the rust had gotten to the point where the cab was about ready to fall off the frame; the steering column had become a major structural member. The driver's door did try to fall off about a week before I got rid of it due to a strong wind. It was no longer safe to drive, especially for a family man.

One factor to consider is whether someone has an another means of getting to work if the primary vehicle breaks. I have two other cars I can drive, which allows me the luxury of repairing the troublemaker. I like the challenge of getting as much out of a car as I can.

 

[JHZR2]

Quote:

---

Stewart Fan in response to my comment:

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

people will spend a lot of money on status items, fads, and changes in style. It is all a part of the need to keep up with the Jones's. It is not about being practical or logical.

---

Sounds like someone is jealous.

Because I choose to work hard so I can afford nice things,that makes me impractical or illogical?

If you want to drive around in a POS be my guest.

---

Thank you for demonstrating my point. Your answer to: "Why replace a car that can be repaired?" is "I work hard so I can afford nice things". Your obvious logic error demonstrates that you are not about logic. Furthermore, your attitude isn't about being practical either. For some reason "nice things" and making others feel jealous makes you feel good.

The irony is delicious. Thanks.

---

I work hard, can afford nice things and oftentimes desire nice things. I own a house, many cars, many computers, rolex watches, etc. That said, my 83 MB that got hit and has been sitting in the garage while court rulings were coming out will be fixed over the next few months. Why? Because whether or not I can afford a new E320CDI is irrelevant. I have a car that has the mechanical robustness, the operating efficiency, classic lines, etc. that I desire. Am I spending more to fix it than it is worth at this point? yep! Am I loosing less than I would with a new car? yep. Do I love my plan and the fact that Ill have my car back? yep.

And frankly, I turn up my nose at newer MB dirvers when I go down the road in my stately 83 MB

JMH

 

[ScottB]

I tried the used car route after my last new car purchase in 1992 - a new Ford Explorer.
Subsequent "lightly used" cars turned out to be a nightmare.
I bought my first new car in December, 2005 - the Scion tC.
I'm SO glad I did.
Not one call to AAA - they all knew me by name I had to use them so often!

Anyway. As one person said, new cars often are safer, and me being a technology junkie, I love the new items my tC has.
With often spending 3-4 hours per day in my car, that's sanity folks.

it's like the "you're wasting money doing 3-4k OCI's" crowd here - they're maybe right on the fact that it's not always necessary, but many seem rubbed strangely in the wrong way by how I and others spend our money.
I happen to have a very lucrative 401k, savings, and by any measure, massive equity in my home. I'm not ever-extended and quite smart with my money.

I also enjoy it. I don't wear pants to work with patches in the knees - why should I drive a car that may or may not get me there?

I do feel some sense of jealousy here.
Call it what you like, there's many overly-sensitive replies here.

 

[The_Jeff]

If all we wanted from life was basic transportation we'd all ride bicycles or those horrid 2-stroke motorcycle/sidecar things you see in Bangladesh.

It's fine to spend one's disposable income on a vehicle that doesn't make 100% fiscal sense.

Am sure the OP was getting at the bottom of why Joe Blow gives up so easily, and thoughtlessly. To aggresively restore/repair/maintain a classic that's not made anymore beyond the point of fiscal sanity is a fine use of money as long as it makes its owner happy. Otherwise see my first paragraph.

 

[Ray Garlington]

Quote:

---

Am I spending more to fix it than it is worth at this point? yep!

---

A car's worth and "spending more than its worth" needs to be explored somewhat. I'll float the idea that a car's worth may NOT be its market value.

In the US there are many cars having a market value far less than (what we could call) their utility value. For example: today you can get a decent, utilitarian, new car for about 20k. On the other hand you can buy a well maintained, older luxury car for <$10k. It may have say 100-120k miles on it, but it provides a better driving experience than the new $20k car. If you have a good mechanic, you can spend $2000-$3000 and replace ALL the wear items on that car and have something that drives as new and is (nearly) as reliable as new. I would place its value far higher than its market value, and quite a bit higher than the new, utilitarian vehicle; but you could never get that value back in $ in the market. Rather, you get it back in the satisfaction of driving as you have expressed above.

 

[brianl703]

Quote:

---

Subsequent "lightly used" cars turned out to be a nightmare.
I bought my first new car in December, 2005 - the Scion tC.
I'm SO glad I did.
Not one call to AAA - they all knew me by name I had to use them so often!

---

I think I've had pretty good luck with used cars, especially considering what I've learned about how a lot of people maintain their cars, but I've decided no more used cars for me. My first used car NEVER left me stranded. My second left me stranded once (when the alternator failed without warning due to the previous owner never replacing the battery with a shorted cell). My third left me stranded about 3 times over 65K miles, due to nothing the previous owner did but simply due to age, it is almost 19 years old. (ignition module, fuel pump, and a timing cover coolant leak--I should have repaired the leak but I used Bar's stop-leak instead, and it catastrophically failed a few months later. I won't do that again.)

I decided I wanted something new. That elimates the variable of previous owner neglect.

 

[ScottB]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Subsequent "lightly used" cars turned out to be a nightmare.
I bought my first new car in December, 2005 - the Scion tC.
I'm SO glad I did.
Not one call to AAA - they all knew me by name I had to use them so often!

---

I decided I wanted something new. That elimates the variable of previous owner neglect.

---

BINGO!!!