Which should I use? VRP/PPHM/PUP?

[D1dad]

HM oil is essentially for when you are trying to bandaid an actively leaking old engine. If you don't have any leaks, forget the HM and stick with regular oils.

I have 217k on my van and it's never seen an HM oil. It also doesn't use or burn seemingly any oil at all. My GX has 170k and likewise (to my knowledge) never got HM oil. Both have minor seeps that don't drip or cause any observable change in oil level over an interval.

Maybe. Valvoline has always endorsed their HM oils as safe from day 1. Any car I had through the years that leaked required a mechanical fix. Those were always GM and their crappy gaskets.

 

[Blagoje]

PUP because rebate

 

[kschachn]

Maybe. Valvoline has always endorsed their HM oils as safe from day 1. Any car I had through the years that leaked required a mechanical fix. Those were always GM and their crappy gaskets.

Everyone does. The fact that most (all?) HM oils are API SP makes the point a bit moot these days.

 

[Hohn]

Maybe. Valvoline has always endorsed their HM oils as safe from day 1. Any car I had through the years that leaked required a mechanical fix. Those were always GM and their crappy gaskets.

Oh for sure the HM oils are safe on even a new engine. But safe and optimal are different thresholds of success. They are the kinds of differences that take many tens of thousands of miles to show up or matter.

I just think that oil is generally zero-sum. If there was absolutely no downside to the extra conditioners, every oil would have them.

In my mind, it's sort of like using an SN-rated diesel oil in a gasoline engine. Is it safe? Well of course it is, it has the SN rating. But certainly the additives for soot control in a CK4 rated oil must compromise the performance in applications where soot isn't a main concern, right? Otherwise we wouldn't' have separate oils for gas and diesel engines.

The "optimal" oil addresses what a particular engine most needs. Some engines with lots of chains would benefit from an oil that emphasizes shear stability. An engine known for fuel dilution might benefit from a thicker-within-grade oil.

HM oils are absolutely safe to use. But I'd argue that safety is the wrong measure of success, because 20w50 V twin motorcycle oil and SAE30 non detergent oil and VR1 racing oil are all "safe" to use in a short timeframe.

Oil selection is the short end of a very long stick. That's why so many discussions go unresolved. It's why thick vs thin still exists--it's because so much time passes between our decisions and their consequences that the feedback loop is very weak and we frankly got little to no actual data other than anecdotes. Heck, even those doing UOAs regularly will tell you there's precious little difference in wear performance among full synthetic oils. UOA discussion ultimately forces us to admit that UOA can't really distinguish the wear performance of two good oils.

Give your engine what it needs. There's no preventive utility IMHO of using an HM oil when it's not needed.

 

[fen]

This type of question would come up in the early days of these forums. Terry Dyson, a member from 2002 stated that HM oils were fine in new engines. Older members will remember Dyson. He was highly regarded for his knowledge of lubrication matters. Terry was also big on UOAs and interpreted them for a fee.

 

[mojoe]

This type of question would come up in the early days of these forums. Terry Dyson, a member from 2002 stated that HM oils were fine in new engines. Older members will remember Dyson. He was highly regarded for his knowledge of lubrication matters. Terry was also big on UOAs and interpreted them for a fee.

Yep, I don't see how it could hurt, just seems that it would be a misapplication, as HMs contain additives not needed or not helpful to newer engines.

 

[Cujet]

While M1 EP is a very good oil , have you considered using M1 ESP newer formulations such as the M1 0W30 / 5W30 ESP oils ?

Yes, it is worth considering. In fact the Jag F-Type in my avatar will prob get M1 5W-30ESP on the next change for the extra HTHS. Currently it's EP 5W-30. Since the modified and supercharged AJ126 engine is direct injection only, I do not want an oil with high calcium.

 

[Tripledipper]

Marketing...

Right, marketing. PUP has esters for seal conditioners and a 750k warranty program but won't label it HM because their PP HM sales would decline.

 

[cheesepuffs2]

Right, marketing. PUP has esters for seal conditioners and a 750k warranty program but won't label it HM because their PP HM sales would decline.

Does PUP have higher ester content than PP HM?

 

[Sienna dude]

Does PUP have higher ester content than PP HM?

Some kind of Borate easter that gives Pennzoil Ultra Platimum 275 ppm of Boron in a VOA. Pennzoil Platinum has zero Boron. Not sure about HM.
Given Ultra's 750k mile warranty, I am pretty sure now it takes good care of the seals. No need for their HM oil.

 

[Tripledipper]

Does PUP have higher ester content than PP HM?

Its cork vs rubber. Newer seals should use the PUP and older cork seals should use the PP HM. It was Lake Speed that thought the PUP uses borate esters that may be used as seal conditioners IAW quick internet search.