Which oil would you use?

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I almost hate to be posting one of these threads, but what the heck.

I recently bought a '92 NSX. It's a lot of fun on the track. I'm currently running M1 0W-40 in it as I've run that in every other track car I've owned (and most non-track cars, too) and it's "just worked". This weekend I was seeing oil temperatures climb to about 275F. Oil pressure was fine, even at idle.

There's a lot of discussion online about oil temperatures, specifically how hot is too hot, but nothing consistent or concrete. I decided to contact Mobil 1 and see what they thought. This is their answer:

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Good question Robert, but you are still in good shape at 275⁰F. I can tell you that Mobil 1 will resist breakdown and the formation of sludge/varnish up to 500⁰F. Realize that is simply from an oil integrity perspective – the viscosity will be that much thinner (possibly too thin for optimal lubrication), and oil life is compromised. Since the 0W-40 you are running is thicker than the OEM recommends, you are already mitigating some of that risk.

If your personality is anything like mine, I would not want to see oil temperature right on the limit, but instead I’d leave a good buffer. I would set 300⁰F as a conservative limit. I’m no expert on these vehicles, but I would think that if you can’t run wide open under 300⁰F, it might be a sign that extra cooling (oil or water) is required.
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I have been mulling over the idea of moving to Red Line 10W-30 or possibly 5W-40. I'd love to hear folks' thoughts on oil temperature and the idea of changing oils.

robert
 
I've seen durability testing conducted with the stock weight oil using 300_F has the oil temp limit. If you are already bumping up a grade I wouldn't worry about anything.
 
I would stick with the Mobil 1 as is and look into upgrading your oil cooler and or radiator.

I know on some rx7's that use coolant based oil coolers, people tend to recommend switching to air coolers. Doing a quick oil search seems to show your car may have a water cooled oil cooler so this may be worth looking into.
 
If you're monitoring oil pressure and temp, you're better off than most other folks out there. All is well here. Consider oil analysis at some point to judge how the track time is affecting longevity.

An oil cooler wouldn't be a bad investment.
 
Originally Posted By: mazdamonky

I would stick with the Mobil 1 as is and look into upgrading your oil cooler and or radiator.


Yeah, an external oil cooler is probably the right thing. I like to keep things simple and stock when I can, but I think this is a case where maybe I can't.

robert
 
In my opinion, it is not the grade of oil (xxW-yy) that is important here, but the actual viscosity of the oil at 275ºF and at high shear rates--that is the HTHS viscosity.

If it were my car (I drive a 95 Ferrari F355 on the track) I would be looking for an oil with an HTHS number above 4.0cP. The original oil specified for my Ferrari had an HTHS number of 4.2cP. A decade ago when I last looked in detail there was even a 5W-30 oil with an HTHS number this high, it does not appear that there currently is a 30 weight oil with an HTHS number that high. Incidentally, the redline on my oil gauge is at 305ºF, but I started to fear for my engine around 275ºF like you.

The answer you got from Mobil is the bullcrap about longer term oil breakdown from high temperatures. You, in particular, are not worried about oil breakdown because you will be changing the oil after the track weekend (Right?) due to consumption of the antiwear package in the oil. No, what you are worried about is the viscosity of the oil, at high temperatures over short durations and high throttle applications, so that metal to metal contact does not occur and engine wear accelerate. This is, in a nutshell, what the HTHS number is all about.
 
The only thing I would do is try castrol or rotella 0w40 or 5w40. But otherwise your install an oil cooler and keep paying attention
 
I just don't understand all of these, "What oil should I use", threads? In every owners manual the manufacturer tells you point blank what oil you should be using. Just use that. As for brand, if it meets the manufacturers specification posted on the back of the jug, your good to go. If it's a used car, any dealership will tell you what to use. I think a lot of the problems start when the owner thinks they, or some anonymous Internet poster, knows more than the manufacturer does.
 
Originally Posted By: billt460
I just don't understand all of these, "What oil should I use", threads? In every owners manual the manufacturer tells you point blank what oil you should be using. Just use that. As for brand, if it meets the manufacturers specification posted on the back of the jug, your good to go. If it's a used car, any dealership will tell you what to use. I think a lot of the problems start when the owner thinks they, or some anonymous Internet poster, knows more than the manufacturer does.


This is a racing thread. Track use here. Plus, we know there are better oils to use than just minimum-spec ones.
 
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Plus, we know there are better oils to use than just minimum-spec ones.


With a lot of these high performance cars that come with factory warranties, such as the Chrysler Hellcats, SRT's, Scat Packs, etc. You could jeopardize your warranty by using, "I know what's best", oils in your car.
 
This is racing thread - no warranty here.

But, Typically As long as there is oil in there, the service dept doesnt care. I didn't know Hellcat has a powertrain warranty. Silly car anyhow. Better off with a Vintage muscle car. Hold its value (or increase) and lots of "vintage" fun.
 
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Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Typically As long as there is oil in there, the service dept doesnt care.


Not true at all.

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/12/28/5-things-will-void-car-warranty/

"So why do people continue to use what they believe are the best fluids for their new vehicles? For example, a woman called my national radio show, crying on air that when her husband changed the oil in her then-new Ford Taurus (3.0 liter V6 engine) he used straight 30-weight, non semi-synthetic motor oil. Subsequently, the engine had failed. When the oil was analyzed, it was found that the lubricant didn't provide proper lubrication to the engine and was the cause of the failure. Lack of proper rod and main bearing lubrication was cited as the key cause for the engine failure. Ford specifies using 5W20 semi-synthetic oil in that particular engine; hence the warranty claim was denied and the engine warranty voided."
 
Originally Posted By: billt460
I just don't understand all of these, "What oil should I use", threads? In every owners manual the manufacturer tells you point blank what oil you should be using. Just use that. As for brand, if it meets the manufacturers specification posted on the back of the jug, your good to go. If it's a used car, any dealership will tell you what to use. I think a lot of the problems start when the owner thinks they, or some anonymous Internet poster, knows more than the manufacturer does.


I even started the thread saying that I hated these threads... if I was talking about my wife's 2008 Rabbit, you would have a point. But I'm talking about a 25 year old car that is used on the track. Oils have changed and improved since then. People have actual, real world experience with these cars since then.

You're talking about warranties in another response. What? It's a 25 year old car on a race track. There's no warranty.

robert
 
M1 0w40 would be fine at 275F. The HTHS of M1 0w40 FS is currently 3.6 cP, and that is at 150C (302F). If you can find some old stock of M1 0w40 (pre-FS), the HTHS would be 3.8. There are 40-weight synthetics that have higher HTHS. Redline 5w40 is 4.4. Redline 10w40 is also 4.4, but more shear stable. AMSoil AMO is 4.3. Don't know what Joe Gibbs DT40 is, but I have used their LS30, and it did OK. These are all beastly oils in terms of shear stability and wear protection.

I don't think you need to add a cooler until the oil temperature goes over 300F on the track on a hot day.
 
Originally Posted By: billt460
I just don't understand all of these, "What oil should I use", threads? In every owners manual the manufacturer tells you point blank what oil you should be using. Just use that. As for brand, if it meets the manufacturers specification posted on the back of the jug, your good to go. If it's a used car, any dealership will tell you what to use. I think a lot of the problems start when the owner thinks they, or some anonymous Internet poster, knows more than the manufacturer does.


Yeah, I doubt the NSX owner's manual will tell you what oil is best for that car in a race environment no less.... 25 years later, lol.

As far as the Hellcat. They require a 0w-40 synthetic at a minimum. A stout oil to begin with. Whatever they do recommend in the owner's manual there has to be extremes they cannot possibly cover. At that point common sense needs to be applied. What if you decide to do a dozen or more max rpm runs at Bonneville? Will the owner's manual properly guide you then? The manufacturers can cover the bulk of the populations over varying environments. They can't possibly cover every situation. I doubt the Hellcat warranty would even cover runs at Bonneville...lol.
 
Originally Posted By: 69GTX
Originally Posted By: billt460
I just don't understand all of these, "What oil should I use", threads? In every owners manual the manufacturer tells you point blank what oil you should be using. Just use that. As for brand, if it meets the manufacturers specification posted on the back of the jug, your good to go. If it's a used car, any dealership will tell you what to use. I think a lot of the problems start when the owner thinks they, or some anonymous Internet poster, knows more than the manufacturer does.


Yeah, I doubt the NSX owner's manual will tell you what oil is best for that car in a race environment no less.... 25 years later, lol.

As far as the Hellcat. They require a 0w-40 synthetic at a minimum. A stout oil to begin with. Whatever they do recommend in the owner's manual there has to be extremes they cannot possibly cover. At that point common sense needs to be applied. What if you decide to do a dozen or more max rpm runs at Bonneville? Will the owner's manual properly guide you then? The manufacturers can cover the bulk of the populations over varying environments. They can't possibly cover every situation. I doubt the Hellcat warranty would even cover runs at Bonneville...lol.


Re: Bonneville

That may not be an issue, as even being able to find enough suitable Salt to lay out a Course, has been a problem. Last year they were able to find enough Salt to stage Speedweek, but conditions were far from ideal.
 
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Typically As long as there is oil in there, the service dept doesnt care.


Not true at all.

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/12/28/5-things-will-void-car-warranty/

"So why do people continue to use what they believe are the best fluids for their new vehicles? For example, a woman called my national radio show, crying on air that when her husband changed the oil in her then-new Ford Taurus (3.0 liter V6 engine) he used straight 30-weight, non semi-synthetic motor oil. Subsequently, the engine had failed. When the oil was analyzed, it was found that the lubricant didn't provide proper lubrication to the engine and was the cause of the failure. Lack of proper rod and main bearing lubrication was cited as the key cause for the engine failure. Ford specifies using 5W20 semi-synthetic oil in that particular engine; hence the warranty claim was denied and the engine warranty voided."
#30 ND or 30 HD? Never happen in mild weather. There is a 3 or 4 cSt difference in KV100 operation numbers, but well over 1000 cSt honey cold start. I call Bull Bologna! Ive Never, EVER read or seen or heard ANYONE here in over a DECADE getting oil anaylsis from a service department, except for coolant in oil to prove LIM/HG failure. We are not talking about NOT USING MULTIGRADE in Minnesota winter. That's idiocy or ignorance. We are talking a mild boost in film at race temps.
 
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