Which Is More Important : KV @ 100 C. vs. HTHS In 5W30 ?

[Patman]

Originally Posted by Brojo
Mobil 1 HM 10w-30 carries a little best of both worlds. HTHS of 3.5 and a cSt @ 100c of 12.1



In terms of readily available 30 weights at a reasonable price, that's one of the better options. If one really wants a 5w30 though, and as Vaca already mentioned, Pennzoil Euro L 5w30 is another good choice that has similar HTHS and viscosity at 100c. (even if you can't find it in stock at your local Walmart, you could order it online from them and it's usually around $22 to $25 for 5 quarts).

 

[Brojo]

Originally Posted by Patman
Originally Posted by Brojo
Mobil 1 HM 10w-30 carries a little best of both worlds. HTHS of 3.5 and a cSt @ 100c of 12.1



In terms of readily available 30 weights at a reasonable price, that's one of the better options. If one really wants a 5w30 though, and as Vaca already mentioned, Pennzoil Euro L 5w30 is another good choice that has similar HTHS and viscosity at 100c. (even if you can't find it in stock at your local Walmart, you could order it online from them and it's usually around $22 to $25 for 5 quarts).


Yes I was considering give the Penn Euro a shot in the gf's car. Walmart didn't have the 5qt jugs in stock, even online, about a week ago. Still can get individual quarts for approx $6.70. Not great price, but not horrible.

Where was the HTHS of the euro confirmed? Pennzoil doesn't have it listed on their site.

 

[Patman]

Originally Posted by Brojo


Yes I was considering give the Penn Euro a shot in the gf's car. Walmart didn't have the 5qt jugs in stock, even online, about a week ago. Still can get individual quarts for approx $6.70. Not great price, but not horrible.

Where was the HTHS of the euro confirmed? Pennzoil doesn't have it listed on their site.


It doesn't list it, but because it's ACEA A3 it has to be 3.5 or higher. I also believe any oil that is dexos2 also needs to be 3.5 or higher.

 

[Brojo]

Originally Posted by Patman

It doesn't list it, but because it's ACEA A3 it has to be 3.5 or higher. I also believe any oil that is dexos2 also needs to be 3.5 or higher.


Ah, gotcha. Thanks

 

[Gokhan]

HTHSV determines the wear protection for the bearings, fuel economy to a large extent, and oil pressure.

KV100 determines the oil consumption through valve-stem oil seals and oil leaks.

Base-oil viscosity (not specified) is important for wear protection of the valvetrain, timing chain, and piston rings/cylinder liners.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted by Patman
It doesn't list it, but because it's ACEA A3 it has to be 3.5 or higher. I also believe any oil that is dexos2 also needs to be 3.5 or higher.

Any E6 lube will also have HTHS of 3.5 or greater, with reduced phosphorus for those who care about such things, although higher SA than a dexos2 would have.

 

[jbutch]

Originally Posted by Garak
Originally Posted by Patman
It doesn't list it, but because it's ACEA A3 it has to be 3.5 or higher. I also believe any oil that is dexos2 also needs to be 3.5 or higher.

Any E6 lube will also have HTHS of 3.5 or greater, with reduced phosphorus for those who care about such things, although higher SA than a dexos2 would have.


Whats the limit on SA for dexos2 vs E6?

 

[Garak]

E6 is 1, which you'll see with CJ-4 and CK-4 as well. SA must be at 0.8 or lower for dexos2 and C3.

 

[AirBull]

Originally Posted by Gokhan
HTHSV determines the wear protection for the bearings, fuel economy to a large extent, and oil pressure.

KV100 determines the oil consumption through valve-stem oil seals and oil leaks.

Base-oil viscosity (not specified) is important for wear protection of the valvetrain, timing chain, and piston rings/cylinder liners.
THIS! Interesting point. BMW recommends LL-01 for my 2015 M5 with a twin-turbo V8, DI, and VANOS, (and even LL-04 in Europe with lower content sulfur petrol which the US via EPA Tier 3 regs is really close to now.) Originally, the motor came with 5w-30, but LL-01 says you can run 0w-40, 0w-30, or 5w-40. BMW V8's (N63 and S63, as well as the V6 M motors,) have some history of spinning bearings so I'm a big believer in the 5w-40 viscosity and frequent OCI's. How you drive your vehicle (let oil temps rise before getting on it,) and how often (and what type/quality) you change your oil are two very important factors in the failures, I am sure.

Remember, FCA went from 5w-30 to 5w-40 to combat premature bearing failures in their EcoDiesel V6 motors a couple of years ago, so for me on my S63, this makes sense. When BMW went over to Shell products from Castrol in 2015, BMW changed from the 5w-30 to a new LL-01 FE (Fuel Economy) 0w-30. This new LL-01 FE calls for a â¥3.0 HTHS whereas LL-01 and -04 have an HTHS of â¥3.5. So BMW is saying that you can run as low as a 3.0 HTHS via LL-01 FE, or go as high as the high 3's in HTHS via LL-01 in the motors.

I'm running Ravenol's VollSynth Turbo (VST) 5w-40 (LL-01) which has a 3.8 HTHS, but you're 5w30s' can go over the board from low 3's to the mid/high 3's. Red Line's Euro 5w-40 (not formally approved by BMW) will even give you a 4.3 HTHS. In my opinion, an HTHS of 3.0 is just too low for the bearings. Maybe the R/L Euro 4.3 HTHS is too high (I don't know,) but I feel much more comfortable for my bearings on 5w-40 than I would with the 0w-30 LL-01 FE.

 

[ChrisD46]

*It would appear QSUD 5W30 would have pretty good numbers in these areas correct ?
Originally Posted by Gokhan
HTHSV determines the wear protection for the bearings, fuel economy to a large extent, and oil pressure.

KV100 determines the oil consumption through valve-stem oil seals and oil leaks.

Base-oil viscosity (not specified) is important for wear protection of the valvetrain, timing chain, and piston rings/cylinder liners.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by ChrisD46
*It would appear QSUD 5W30 would have pretty good numbers in these areas correct ?
Originally Posted by Gokhan
HTHSV determines the wear protection for the bearings, fuel economy to a large extent, and oil pressure.

KV100 determines the oil consumption through valve-stem oil seals and oil leaks.

Base-oil viscosity (not specified) is important for wear protection of the valvetrain, timing chain, and piston rings/cylinder liners.

Yes, very strong HTHSV (~ 3.3 cP) for an ILSAC 5W-30, high KV100 (11.6 cSt), and decent dynamic base-oil viscosity at 150 C (~ 2.0 - 2.1 cP). It's similar to ACEA C3/GM dexos 2 5W-30 oils, albeit slightly short of the 3.5 cP HTHSV minimum.

 

[bbhero]

How Havoline high mileage 5w30 with a 11.75 kinematic viscosity and a HTHS of 3.4 ??

That seems quite stout to me too.