Which Friction Modifier to Use?

[StewartFan]

Hello all! My uncle is a mechanic and has access to a transmission flushing machine. He also has access to a bulk supply of Dexron III ATF. I have a 2004 Civic EX 1.7 AT with ~80K miles. IMO, it is overdue for a transmission flush; the fluid is starting to get to the point where it smells burnt. He said that instead of paying for the Honda ATF, I can just use the Dexron III but I need to buy a friction modifier. Does anyone know which one I should buy? This car would normally take the standard Honda ATF.

Thanks in advance!

 

[tommygunn]

I wouldn't mess with the ATF mixing game....Hondas are extremely picky about their ATF.....especially if the current fill has been neglected, I would go with the Honda OEM or equivalent....I believe the SuperTech MERCON V, or DEX VI is spec'd for Honda...it's one or the other, saw it on the shelf the other day at Walmart.


I'd be more concerned with getting the crud out of that transmission...I heard K&W Trans Fix works extremely well with the fluid exchange machines. Feed the bottle of that through the machine, followed by the OEM fluid.....

 

[229]

Honda has a TSB about not using a flushing machine. Use only Honda ATF. If you had done this I say that it is more than likely you would need a transmission. BTW, you only want to use Honda replacement transmissions also.

 

[cancov]

Yeah, I would stick with the fluid the car specs for. I'm dumping and filling a '02 Maxima with some cheaper SuperTech Dexron III to get as much of the old fluid out and then replace with Amsoil ATF which meets the Nissan Matic-D spec that the car calls for. It's a pain to pay, but I would stick with the Honda ATF. Cost of a transmission is more than a few extra bucks per quart for the OEM Honda ATF.

 

[MarkM66]

Originally Posted By: 229
Honda has a TSB about not using a flushing machine. Use only Honda ATF. If you had done this I say that it is more than likely you would need a transmission. BTW, you only want to use Honda replacement transmissions also.


Wow. Jump to conclusions much?

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: tommygunn
....I believe the SuperTech MERCON V, or DEX VI is spec'd for Honda...it's one or the other, saw it on the shelf the other day at Walmart.


OK moving right along.

Flush away with the machine. Then drop in a correct fluid. Honda OEM will work, but maybe not the best choice if you have the BMXA or SLXA AT, I tend to prefer the premium aftermarket ATF's. If you have the SLYA AT, then you can't use ATF.

 

[229]

Originally Posted By: MarkM66
Originally Posted By: 229
Honda has a TSB about not using a flushing machine. Use only Honda ATF. If you had done this I say that it is more than likely you would need a transmission. BTW, you only want to use Honda replacement transmissions also.


Wow. Jump to conclusions much?


I can't jump very high when I have Honda transaxles in my arms from shadetrees following this advice.

 

[MarkM66]

Originally Posted By: 229
Originally Posted By: MarkM66
Originally Posted By: 229
Honda has a TSB about not using a flushing machine. Use only Honda ATF. If you had done this I say that it is more than likely you would need a transmission. BTW, you only want to use Honda replacement transmissions also.


Wow. Jump to conclusions much?


I can't jump very high when I have Honda transaxles in my arms from shadetrees following this advice.


Can you post that TSB? Why does Honda not want a flushing machine used?

So you're also saying that no one can rebuild a Honda transmission?

 

[229]

Non-ferrous materials that have settled will get churned to the top of the valvebody. If you want to go against the manufacturer's advice then that's job security for me. I am trying to help the guy, what is your motivation? Do you sell flushing machines or like an arguement or hopefully just have not received the training yet? Your type of posting may hamper some from giving free knowledge. Some of my mechanic friends say let them do whatever they want and we get more business. The Honda transmissions receive the latest updates. I do not work for Honda any longer. My new boss can be tougher. Jesse-ASE Master Technician
Originally Posted By: MarkM66
Originally Posted By: 229
Originally Posted By: MarkM66
Originally Posted By: 229
Honda has a TSB about not using a flushing machine. Use only Honda ATF. If you had done this I say that it is more than likely you would need a transmission. BTW, you only want to use Honda replacement transmissions also.


Wow. Jump to conclusions much?


I can't jump very high when I have Honda transaxles in my arms from shadetrees following this advice.


Can you post that TSB? Why does Honda not want a flushing machine used?

So you're also saying that no one can rebuild a Honda transmission?

 

[MarkM66]

I'm not trying to argue, just out for information.

I've also never advocated the use of a flushing machine, and have never had that service used on my vehicles.

So where is all this "non ferrous" material at under normal transmission operation?

As for buying a replacement trans from Honda. If they would of done a better job in the first place, there would be no need of replacement.

 

[229]

The dealer I worked at still does it but the internal factory memo says no. The material follows gravity to the bottom of several places. Higher than operating pressure from the machine will move material not otherwise moved. If the internal filter gets clogged from this material you know what follows. Even a magnet will not stop brass pieces. There was a bad run of torque converters that gave us some problems.

In addition you have the factor of machine maintenance and some fluid is left in the machine from previous use which may be another type.

 

[MarkM66]

Sounds good. Thanks.

The a/t in my '01 Civic went out about a year ago, with 215k miles on it. I think it may have been the torque converter that went first, as it was making a whining noise, which I've read it can make when going out. It lasted a few thousand more miles after that though.

I had a local shop rebuild it. I hope they got it right,

.

 

[229]

Your welcome. If they put an updated TQ in it OK. If you had replaced the TQ when you first heard the whine the other transmission may have been fine. They just can not live with the internal filter, that you can not service, restricting flow. That is why Honda does not want anything stirred up.

To the OP; if you drain and fill with three quarts and let engine run for one minute between drains, by the time you have used a case of Honda ATF, you will have a clean system. Exchange three quarts every 30K miles for good maintenance. The Honda Z-1 ATF is discontinued and they are now using a synthetic long life ATF. It is backwards compatible. Honda has their friction modifier just the way they want it and it is recommended to only use their fluid, even after the warranty expires. I think the CVT transmissions were discontinued one year model before yours so you do not have to worry about that type of fluid but you can give the dealer your VIN number and you will get the correct fluid. HTH
Originally Posted By: MarkM66
Sounds good. Thanks.

The a/t in my '01 Civic went out about a year ago, with 215k miles on it. I think it may have been the torque converter that went first, as it was making a whining noise, which I've read it can make when going out. It lasted a few thousand more miles after that though.

I had a local shop rebuild it. I hope they got it right,

.

 

[hounddog]

All the machines I have seen are not flushing machines. They are a fliud exchange machine. The vehicle motor is running and the vehicle is pumping old trans fliud out with its own power. Then the machine with a bladder is pushing fliud back in. Metals in the pan stay just as they were. There is no back flush either. Just old fliud out and new fliud in. Just how would that move metal in the pan. Nothing is any different then normal trans pressures.

 

[229]

Originally Posted By: hounddog
All the machines I have seen are not flushing machines. They are a fliud exchange machine. The vehicle motor is running and the vehicle is pumping old trans fliud out with its own power. Then the machine with a bladder is pushing fliud back in. Metals in the pan stay just as they were. There is no back flush either. Just old fliud out and new fliud in. Just how would that move metal in the pan. Nothing is any different then normal trans pressures.

We were talking about another type of machine that also pushes a cleaning fluid through the system.

What you are talking about is fine and you can do it yourself by removing cooler lines and catching the old in a bucket while introducing the new. You can see when the old fluid becomes new and usually takes less than a case of ATF.

 

[hounddog]

I have hard of those types. I was in the auto repair business a long time. I go in and out of shops frequently. I have never seen a 'transmission flushing machine'. Only fliud exchange machines and most are BG machines.

 

[Ken2]

Back to the original question...Lubegard black bottle Highly Friction Modified ATF supplement is said to convert Dexron-III ATF into juice that is good in Hondas. There are other brands...check the labels...but Lubegard is the best known and highly regarded.

 

[229]

Originally Posted By: hounddog
I have hard of those types. I was in the auto repair business a long time. I go in and out of shops frequently. I have never seen a 'transmission flushing machine'. Only fliud exchange machines and most are BG machines.


RT-15X Automatic Transmission Service Machine
"Give your customers or your fleet vehicles the ultimate in transmission
service. The RT-15X replaces virtually 100% of the transmission fluid and
completely flushes the cooler, torque converter, pump and lines without
dropping the pan. The patented pneumatic "Power-Flush" system uses air
power to dislodge dirt particles eliminating the need for costly cleaning
additives.
Now you can offer 10-minute transmission service on-site. No more lifting
the car in the air and wasting service bays."

Let us know how that "modified" unlicensed bulk Dexron III does for you.

 

[229]

Just like its predecessor (BG PF20), the BG PF20-500 Big Dawg® High Capacity Power Flush and Fluid Exchange System is the ultimate solution to effective automatic transmission maintenance. It’s built tough for large vehicle transmissions and handles small vehicles in a snap. The BG Big Dawg® cleans all internal transmission components including torque converter, valve body assemblies, lines and cooler vanes. Then it thoroughly flushes the old fluid and cleaner and simultaneously installs new fluid. It can easily handle the exchange of 14 gallons of ATF at 280 PSI IN LESS THAN ONE MINUTE!


Originally Posted By: 229
Originally Posted By: hounddog
I have hard of those types. I was in the auto repair business a long time. I go in and out of shops frequently. I have never seen a 'transmission flushing machine'. Only fliud exchange machines and most are BG machines.


RT-15X Automatic Transmission Service Machine
"Give your customers or your fleet vehicles the ultimate in transmission
service. The RT-15X replaces virtually 100% of the transmission fluid and
completely flushes the cooler, torque converter, pump and lines without
dropping the pan. The patented pneumatic "Power-Flush" system uses air
power to dislodge dirt particles eliminating the need for costly cleaning
additives.
Now you can offer 10-minute transmission service on-site. No more lifting
the car in the air and wasting service bays."

Let us know how that "modified" unlicensed bulk Dexron III does for you.