S2500Dog,
How old are you ?
I'm sure with HVAC theres a ton of well established competition arleady in any city you go to.
How old are you ?
I'm sure with HVAC theres a ton of well established competition arleady in any city you go to.
Which career major is better ???
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CS (actually to be exact CSE or CE) is a tough job and while there are outsourcing, there are even more hiring still going on if you are good. You have to stay above 3.0GPA minimum, but for top paying ones you have to stay above 3.5. The math isn't too bad unless you are into signal processing (that's EE related field like RF) but you have to know LOGICS inside out. Think of playing chess and crime investigation under time limit, that's what it's like at work.
In the valley if you came from a good school and have good internship experience, and know what you are doing well, a starting salary is in the 70k a year range. My opinion is the closer things are to R&D and hardware side of business, the harder it is to outsource. The closer it is to IT, high level software, and testing, the easier it is to outsource.
If you love it, there isn't a reason not to do it, but if you are doing it for the money, after factoring in all the hard work and over time it is probably not going to make you that much more than other field.
College is NOT a waste of time if you know what field you are going into and what you want to do afterward. It is if you just want to party for 4 years and expect a lifetime employment of being overpaid.
In the valley if you came from a good school and have good internship experience, and know what you are doing well, a starting salary is in the 70k a year range. My opinion is the closer things are to R&D and hardware side of business, the harder it is to outsource. The closer it is to IT, high level software, and testing, the easier it is to outsource.
If you love it, there isn't a reason not to do it, but if you are doing it for the money, after factoring in all the hard work and over time it is probably not going to make you that much more than other field.
College is NOT a waste of time if you know what field you are going into and what you want to do afterward. It is if you just want to party for 4 years and expect a lifetime employment of being overpaid.
You need to do something that you'll love doing at 30, and also love doing at 60. Only you can decide what that is. I agree with Panda Bear that college is not a waste of time, but only if you take full advantage of what college has to offer. Keep in mind that college is only a start toward higher learning; it's a lifelong process.
I'm 65 and I still love what I do, although I'm strictly doing consulting and design work now.
My wife decided early that she was facinated with corporate law, and has made a great career out of it. At 59 she still loves what she does.
Retirement isn't in our vocabulary. Maybe in 15 years or so we might consider slowing down some.
I'm 65 and I still love what I do, although I'm strictly doing consulting and design work now.
My wife decided early that she was facinated with corporate law, and has made a great career out of it. At 59 she still loves what she does.
Retirement isn't in our vocabulary. Maybe in 15 years or so we might consider slowing down some.
Originally Posted By: rjundi
HVAC you have a distinct plateau in earning potential unless you want to own a company. Also not the most dynamic field but there is a lot to be said for that.
With CS the sky is the limit in earning potential. Also field changes but the concepts are essentially the same throughout its short history.
Do what you like best.
The math part is hard in CS but doable. I tutored many Calc I & II students in college.
This is an opinion, not a fact. A great friend of mine makes nearly 200k in his CS position but is also the FIRST person terminated when things go sour. It has made for a lot of anxiety.
I am a blue collar biz owner who simply worked harder than anyone else in my area and have out-earned him for a decade.
I feel that a careful biz owner can easily out-earn most of the so called 'professional' positions without the extreme convolutions of todays biz world.
We work a bit harder at first and then get to taper off quickly when we begin multiplying ourselves through other workers. Plus a well documented biz is worth a substantial amount of money when it comes time to retire.
Everyone is different. You've got to try and find something you are passionate about.
HVAC you have a distinct plateau in earning potential unless you want to own a company. Also not the most dynamic field but there is a lot to be said for that.
With CS the sky is the limit in earning potential. Also field changes but the concepts are essentially the same throughout its short history.
Do what you like best.
The math part is hard in CS but doable. I tutored many Calc I & II students in college.
This is an opinion, not a fact. A great friend of mine makes nearly 200k in his CS position but is also the FIRST person terminated when things go sour. It has made for a lot of anxiety.
I am a blue collar biz owner who simply worked harder than anyone else in my area and have out-earned him for a decade.
I feel that a careful biz owner can easily out-earn most of the so called 'professional' positions without the extreme convolutions of todays biz world.
We work a bit harder at first and then get to taper off quickly when we begin multiplying ourselves through other workers. Plus a well documented biz is worth a substantial amount of money when it comes time to retire.
Everyone is different. You've got to try and find something you are passionate about.
+1 This is what I noticed when hiring guys for my house. Owning a trade based business can sure make you a lot of money, once you have a couple crews working for them.
I guess the same thing is done in the computer fields as well, but I think its a tougher go. You have far fewer customers that need something not off the shelf and can afford to have it done for them.
If you have no interest in owning a business and want a higher salary, then computers are where its at. I'm going to guess SteveSRT8's right hand man makes a good living but not over $80k? Maybe under $60k?
I guess the same thing is done in the computer fields as well, but I think its a tougher go. You have far fewer customers that need something not off the shelf and can afford to have it done for them.
If you have no interest in owning a business and want a higher salary, then computers are where its at. I'm going to guess SteveSRT8's right hand man makes a good living but not over $80k? Maybe under $60k?
I know a guy in central FL that owns a company that repairs and refurbishes hospitals beds (Hill-Rom , Stryker)..... surgical tables (Skytron, Amsco, Biodex).... Schaerer Mayfield orthopedic surgical tables and he made over $130,000 last year with all the service contracts he has with a bunch of hospitals he services. The guy even rebuilds wheelchairs.
Sure he works hard and has deadlines to meet, but with a small warehouse to rebuild the beds, he is swamped with work. Not a glamorous job, but its a CA$H COW business. There is a never ending flow of broken equipment.
Once you find your market niche, the rest is easy as long as you put 100% of your effort and energy into building YOUR business.
Sure he works hard and has deadlines to meet, but with a small warehouse to rebuild the beds, he is swamped with work. Not a glamorous job, but its a CA$H COW business. There is a never ending flow of broken equipment.
Once you find your market niche, the rest is easy as long as you put 100% of your effort and energy into building YOUR business.
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JHZR2
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Originally Posted By: MolaKule
BTW, don't let math scare you or hold you back. The more math you injest the more you learn about everything.
Absolutely agree. Many just cannot grasp this.
Even if the OP goes HVAC, which I might recommend since it can be a very lucrative field, which there will be a demand for and cannot be offshored.
All the same, I would recommend the OP be strong in math. How can you understand the basic fundamental equations and physics behind what you are doing without it?!?
BTW, don't let math scare you or hold you back. The more math you injest the more you learn about everything.
Absolutely agree. Many just cannot grasp this.
Even if the OP goes HVAC, which I might recommend since it can be a very lucrative field, which there will be a demand for and cannot be offshored.
All the same, I would recommend the OP be strong in math. How can you understand the basic fundamental equations and physics behind what you are doing without it?!?
I majored in CS. It is very math & stats intensive; more so than CSE or EE. EE has more physics. Outside of a math major, CS probably requires the most math/stats of any major.
I worked for 12 years as a software engineer before semi-retiring. In my final year I made about 150k (with benefits about 200k). That doesn't count the large sum I got from stock options. Like any job in the corporate world, your pay depends on how good you are. Merely graduating in CS doesn't guarantee anything; you need a good GPA from a good school. And like any other job where you're an employee, your job isn't guaranteed.
I would say the work environment is better for a CS grad than HVAC grad. You work in a cushy air conditioned office not on an office rooftop that's 110 degrees F.
I worked for 12 years as a software engineer before semi-retiring. In my final year I made about 150k (with benefits about 200k). That doesn't count the large sum I got from stock options. Like any job in the corporate world, your pay depends on how good you are. Merely graduating in CS doesn't guarantee anything; you need a good GPA from a good school. And like any other job where you're an employee, your job isn't guaranteed.
I would say the work environment is better for a CS grad than HVAC grad. You work in a cushy air conditioned office not on an office rooftop that's 110 degrees F.
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
This is an opinion, not a fact. A great friend of mine makes nearly 200k in his CS position but is also the FIRST person terminated when things go sour. It has made for a lot of anxiety.
I am a blue collar biz owner who simply worked harder than anyone else in my area and have out-earned him for a decade.
Any business owner in any field can out-earn an employee in any field. It's a pointless comparison. You aren't comparing the fields they work in; you are comparing the earnings potential of an employer versus an employee.
A valid comparison would be comparing your friend with an HVAC tech who doesn't own a business
This is an opinion, not a fact. A great friend of mine makes nearly 200k in his CS position but is also the FIRST person terminated when things go sour. It has made for a lot of anxiety.
I am a blue collar biz owner who simply worked harder than anyone else in my area and have out-earned him for a decade.
Any business owner in any field can out-earn an employee in any field. It's a pointless comparison. You aren't comparing the fields they work in; you are comparing the earnings potential of an employer versus an employee.
A valid comparison would be comparing your friend with an HVAC tech who doesn't own a business
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Originally Posted By: IndyIan
I'm going to guess SteveSRT8's right hand man makes a good living but not over $80k? Maybe under $60k?
He makes a variable payroll as he's paid both salary and commission. Last year was 65k. This year will be less due to the [censored] economy. He is also guaranteed a minimum weekly salary that constitutes a living wage for him, as I am an extremely fair 'boss'.
But I worked my biz completely alone for the first 10 years as a single dad with three kids. Routinely earned six figures, and had a flexible schedule as well. Plus the tax advantages of biz ownership, which are substantial.
I'll grant you that it's not for everyone, but only because people are afraid to go outside of their comfort zone.
I'm going to guess SteveSRT8's right hand man makes a good living but not over $80k? Maybe under $60k?
He makes a variable payroll as he's paid both salary and commission. Last year was 65k. This year will be less due to the [censored] economy. He is also guaranteed a minimum weekly salary that constitutes a living wage for him, as I am an extremely fair 'boss'.
But I worked my biz completely alone for the first 10 years as a single dad with three kids. Routinely earned six figures, and had a flexible schedule as well. Plus the tax advantages of biz ownership, which are substantial.
I'll grant you that it's not for everyone, but only because people are afraid to go outside of their comfort zone.
Originally Posted By: tonycarguy
It's a pointless comparison. You aren't comparing the fields they work in; you are comparing the earnings potential of an employer versus an employee.
A valid comparison would be comparing your friend with an HVAC tech who doesn't own a business
You speak like an employee. Have you ever owned a business successfully? It's about how much money you make, period. For most people, more money equals more freedom and choices. You have a much harder time getting there working for most employers. And if you are really an important employee you typically will be on call all the time. Probably on salary too.
See the above post. Even when I worked alone I made more than all but one of my 'degreed' friends. And across a ten year period I out-earned him, too.
It's a pointless comparison. You aren't comparing the fields they work in; you are comparing the earnings potential of an employer versus an employee.
A valid comparison would be comparing your friend with an HVAC tech who doesn't own a business
You speak like an employee. Have you ever owned a business successfully? It's about how much money you make, period. For most people, more money equals more freedom and choices. You have a much harder time getting there working for most employers. And if you are really an important employee you typically will be on call all the time. Probably on salary too.
See the above post. Even when I worked alone I made more than all but one of my 'degreed' friends. And across a ten year period I out-earned him, too.
That sums it up 100%. To this day too many students wandering aimlessly from semester to semester wondering what will be their career path. Then, they scramble at the last minute when funds are running out and get a BA or Bachelor of Science Degree. I should know. I was one of them back in the 60's. Through hard work, dedication and additional education I did all right.......not great. I also know what unemployment is like too. My wife has a daughter-in-law who decided to be a career student. Bounced from college to college. She finally picked up a degree in her late 30's. She is now trying to make a living doing work for some internet site from her home.
If you are going to spend your parents $$ or incur a large debt in student loans have a defined plan on what you want to do for a career and have one or several back up plans in case you realize your primary goal in not attainable.
If you are going to spend your parents $$ or incur a large debt in student loans have a defined plan on what you want to do for a career and have one or several back up plans in case you realize your primary goal in not attainable.
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
al.
I'll grant you that it's not for everyone, but only because people are afraid to go outside of their comfort zone.
Or have other priorities.
al.
I'll grant you that it's not for everyone, but only because people are afraid to go outside of their comfort zone.
Or have other priorities.
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Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
One of my best friends, who is also one of the smartest guys I've ever met (and therefore used his smarts to get into a lot of trouble!), had the opportunity to go to the US Air Force Academy or to basically any college he wanted to go to. What did he do? Followed his dad into the HVAC and sheet metal trade.
He now owns his own HVAC sheet metal fabrication company and just bought a house in one of the nicest neighborhoods in town.
Something to think about; like everyone else has said, domestic trade jobs can't be outsourced.
BUT, they can be in-sourced with cheap labor from south of the border.
..but is he happy? Did he like sweating out the details of the HVAC business?
This is what tends to be absent here.
What pays is not always what satisfies. We tend to look at what a career path yields in $$$ and not that it's interesting or involves stimulating personal growth.
One of my best friends, who is also one of the smartest guys I've ever met (and therefore used his smarts to get into a lot of trouble!), had the opportunity to go to the US Air Force Academy or to basically any college he wanted to go to. What did he do? Followed his dad into the HVAC and sheet metal trade.
He now owns his own HVAC sheet metal fabrication company and just bought a house in one of the nicest neighborhoods in town.
Something to think about; like everyone else has said, domestic trade jobs can't be outsourced.
BUT, they can be in-sourced with cheap labor from south of the border.
..but is he happy? Did he like sweating out the details of the HVAC business?
This is what tends to be absent here.
What pays is not always what satisfies. We tend to look at what a career path yields in $$$ and not that it's interesting or involves stimulating personal growth.
That says it all. You have to be happy in what you are doing. Trust me, I know. At almost 66 I will go another 4 years since I am with a good company which means a lot. However, if I could do it over again career wise, I would not be in the profession that I am. Just do not bounce aimlessly along in education and get a bachelors degree at age 35. Define what you want to do in life and pursue it but have a back up plan. I wish someone would have emphasized that to me.
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Well, there's a couple of dispositions that one can assume. One is "what I do is not who I am". This works well enough as long as you're not driving a square peg into a round hole just to crank the squirrel cage up faster.
The other is "I love what I do". There you may or may not make a good living, but you'll rarely work hard since you enjoy the work.
I don't recommend getting into a larger organization if you enjoy the work. They tend to frown on personal joy in employment. They will commence with a seek and destroy mission on every sanctuary you think you have. So act miserable and they might leave you alone.
The other is "I love what I do". There you may or may not make a good living, but you'll rarely work hard since you enjoy the work.
I don't recommend getting into a larger organization if you enjoy the work. They tend to frown on personal joy in employment. They will commence with a seek and destroy mission on every sanctuary you think you have. So act miserable and they might leave you alone.
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
One of my best friends, who is also one of the smartest guys I've ever met (and therefore used his smarts to get into a lot of trouble!), had the opportunity to go to the US Air Force Academy or to basically any college he wanted to go to. What did he do? Followed his dad into the HVAC and sheet metal trade.
He now owns his own HVAC sheet metal fabrication company and just bought a house in one of the nicest neighborhoods in town.
Something to think about; like everyone else has said, domestic trade jobs can't be outsourced.
BUT, they can be in-sourced with cheap labor from south of the border.
..but is he happy? Did he like sweating out the details of the HVAC business?
This is what tends to be absent here.
What pays is not always what satisfies. We tend to look at what a career path yields in $$$ and not that it's interesting or involves stimulating personal growth.
That was kind of my point Gary - he's as happy as a puppy with 2 peters. He was destined for college like I was, but knew deep down it wasn't for him. He's smart as heck. You don't have to be extremely smart and always go to college.
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
One of my best friends, who is also one of the smartest guys I've ever met (and therefore used his smarts to get into a lot of trouble!), had the opportunity to go to the US Air Force Academy or to basically any college he wanted to go to. What did he do? Followed his dad into the HVAC and sheet metal trade.
He now owns his own HVAC sheet metal fabrication company and just bought a house in one of the nicest neighborhoods in town.
Something to think about; like everyone else has said, domestic trade jobs can't be outsourced.
BUT, they can be in-sourced with cheap labor from south of the border.
..but is he happy? Did he like sweating out the details of the HVAC business?
This is what tends to be absent here.
What pays is not always what satisfies. We tend to look at what a career path yields in $$$ and not that it's interesting or involves stimulating personal growth.
That was kind of my point Gary - he's as happy as a puppy with 2 peters. He was destined for college like I was, but knew deep down it wasn't for him. He's smart as heck. You don't have to be extremely smart and always go to college.
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I agree ..sure. I've never met an unintelligent successful trades person. They're usually of higher intelligence ..whether or not they're academically gifted.
Family businesses tend to be extended apprenticeships with residuals to the parent. Sometimes they work out very well. Other times they don't.
..but you didn't show that he was happy. You showed that he was successful. I've met some very well off miserable people.
Family businesses tend to be extended apprenticeships with residuals to the parent. Sometimes they work out very well. Other times they don't.
..but you didn't show that he was happy. You showed that he was successful. I've met some very well off miserable people.
MolaKule
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A great friend of mine makes nearly 200k in his CS position but is also the FIRST person terminated when things go sour.
That's especially true in Aerospace. You may be doing a great job advancing aerospace science and your company's profits, but when it comes to economic woes, your company is going to "LOB" you off because you are expensive.
I do it because I love it. In what other indutry can you blow up engines and planes just to see how they react to adverse conditions.
A great friend of mine makes nearly 200k in his CS position but is also the FIRST person terminated when things go sour.
That's especially true in Aerospace. You may be doing a great job advancing aerospace science and your company's profits, but when it comes to economic woes, your company is going to "LOB" you off because you are expensive.
I do it because I love it. In what other indutry can you blow up engines and planes just to see how they react to adverse conditions.
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