Whew, I have health insurance for 2014 !!!!

[Turk]

Yes Steve, and someone was fully attacked a couple months ago for standing up to this & defending the Constitution by people who took an oath to defend the Constitution.

This whole thing is a power grab and unconstitutional.

James Madison: "The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the Federal Government are few and defined. ...exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation and foreign commerce."

Everything else belongs to the States and the People.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
This whole thing is ridiculously expensive and there are MORE uninsured! Where's the improvement? Plus the whole back end is undeveloped, the insurance companies don't even know you registered yet. You may waltz in January 1 and no one will know who you are or whether you're even insured.

With over 2000 companies locked up by regulations into state lines all we needed to do was REMOVE THE RESTRICTIONS and allow any company to sell into any state. The competition would have been excellent, and rates would have dropped dramatically.

The insurance companies wanted those restrictions, they lobbied for them. They are still driving this bus...


One thing I do know for sure, these new changes to insurance aren't going away now.

Edit:
Rant deleted:.....

 

[rjundi]

I am thankful everyday my wife has the equivalent of platinum+ that we pay $130 every two weeks pre tax for health care. She only works 20hrs/week and is eligible for this due to grandfathering at her hospital(40 min commute each way). We pay $10 for meds, nothing for copays, and nothing for ER visit the catch of this is staying in hospital network(40min away). I have blood drawn only in their lab. Our soon child has so far cost $0 in OB and birth is $0. Catch is getting my wife to hospital in
Her hospital gets it right. She makes the mid level of income(~$43/hr) so we get billed $130. The $8/hr employees pay $30 for same benefits level while the Dr's and CEO level pay $250.

I feel bad for you folks and get the flak if you pay 1/4 of your income for benefits. It definitely feels like iteration/version 0.5 beta of the revised laws and health insurance providers.

 

[Cujet]

Thanks everybody for the insightful comments. I agree with many of them. In particular Steve and Turk.

I'm simply thrilled to not have lost coverage. This entire situation is so stupid and I was right to be very concerned. As I received a number of company communications laying out the dire consequences.

I'll put it this way: This year, my company succeeded in spite of the new laws, rules and regulations. However, at the 100% increase in premiums over 4 years time, I can't pay for it too much longer if something drastic does not change.

I am expecting to be changing jobs to a "self employed contractor" within a year. At that point, I will be on the Florida exchanges and may only be able to afford a lower end policy. I hope for the best, however, I plan for financial disaster.

 

[Turk]

Hang in there, Cujet.

I'm glad you have coverage and sincerely wish you all the best.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
This whole thing is ridiculously expensive and there are MORE uninsured!

It's projected by the CBO to REDUCE deficits.

The net number of uninsured people is falling every day.


Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
With over 2000 companies locked up by regulations into state lines all we needed to do was REMOVE THE RESTRICTIONS and allow any company to sell into any state. The competition would have been excellent, and rates would have dropped dramatically.

The insurance companies wanted those restrictions, they lobbied for them. They are still driving this bus...

I largely agree here. I don't think that alone would have been enough, but I do agree that there had to have been a better solution than the grotesquely jury-rigged ACA.

 

[javacontour]

We should have the freedom to decide how we wish to help.

When the common good is defined by those spending the money, I am suspect.

After all, why are the big business guys bad, but the big government guys good? They all come from the same pool of folks.

I don't think anyone here is saying don't help the needy. But many are saying the ACA and the Federal Government are the wrong tools for the job.

The idea that state decide their own path, as was suggested by the others, was established in the Constitution. They were smart enough to know that when there was 13 states, there were few, if any, one size fits all solutions.

Why do we think that is any less true 200 years and 37 more states later?

Like I said before, the ACA just adds more OPM to the pool so those who are adept at extracting funds from such pools can more efficiently transfer the funds to their bottom lines.

I will believe it when I see it when the deficits actually go down and stay down.

The taxes that were established for the ACA went into effect three years before the ACA got off the ground. So let's see if deficits, as a percentage of GDP are higher or lower in 10 years from 1 Jan 2014. My bet is they are not.

But the general public will have long forgotten the promises and projections because it will be another crisis that we have to solve, no wait, manage.

Originally Posted By: uc50ic4more
Originally Posted By: Brule
We must all group together and look out for each other for the common good, just like good commies, right?


Don't knock it 'til you try it!

 

[whizbyu]

Affordable insurance is one thing. The cost of medical care is another. Everyone who complains about how uninsured people cost the government and taxpayers money need to look at the money trail. Has anyone wondered why it costs so much to provide healthcare? Why does a CT scan replace a simple physical exam anymore? I see so many patients who go to the emergency room and do not get touched by the Emergency Room doctors. They get a CT scan for any kind of pain in their body. When I ask why a CT scan is "routine", they say they don't want to miss anything. Which means someone is practicing defensive medicine, which drives the cost. Has anyone ever wondered why any medication administered in the hospital cost so much more than if you bought it at the pharmacy? Administrative costs? Sure. Ever wondered what an Administrator aka CEO of a hospital gets paid? Do you know what the cost is of a hip implant? What about removing a kidney stone? The hardware used to remove stones, hammer prosthesis in, drill bones, take xrays, etc have a finite cost. After cost of acquisition, depreciation and everything else, the ROI now rests on charges that accrue with each case. Why does a laparoscopic appendectomy total cost upwards of $32,000? Break it down. Surgeon gets paid $2000-$2500. The rest is hospital charges. FOR 23 HOURS STAY!!!!!
I am all for socialized medicine. ACA is NOT Socialized medicine. Look at Scandinavia's model. Hellacious taxes but everybody gets taken cared of. No TV ads, no exorbitant hospital bills.
Has anyone ever talked about TORT reform after the elections? Nope. Has anyone ever talked about why hospitals that are labelled not for profit organizations have Administrators making 7 figures? Didn't think so. It's the special interest groups that drive the cost of healthcare through the roof.

 

[Turk]

Originally Posted By: whizbyu
ACA is NOT Socialized medicine. Look at Scandinavia's model. Hellacious taxes but everybody gets taken cared of.


That is far from dead opposite on what America is about.

We are Taxed Enough Already. We are Tyranized Enough Already.

Now, back to being glad Cujet has health insurance.

 

[TrevorS]

Cujet,

Did you have access to a HDHP with maximum limits on out of pocket expenses?

When my company introduced them, with premiums at half that of the regular plans, I did an analysis on a spreadsheet.

There was no scenario where the HDHP would cost me more than the plan with the highest premium.

The structure of deductibles, copays, out of pocket limits meant that if something catastrophic happened, the HDHP would still be cheaper.

Earlier this year, I then realized the unknown benefit of the HSA. Tax free investable savings, claim in any year ie you can time when your tax benefit is greatest, claim / pay pre tax for related medical expenses eg optical, dental, mileage, but without fund expiry like FSA, build up a tax free fund to pay for retirement medical costs (Medicare won't cover everything), and if you decide you need the money for something else in retirement, it works like a 401k.

So I'm now putting away the maximum into my HSA with a goal to grow like my 401k and to fund medical expenses in retirement.

I would recommend anybody looking into these more closely than how they are presented ie with actual spreadsheet modeling as it may surprise you. If you have a good year, you build up a reserve, and if you have a bad year, it may not actually cost you any more.

 

[eljefino]

If when you're treated for something you're paying malpractice insurance premiums so you'd be (pre)treated for the rest of your life in a slip-up, this says something about out fragmented welfare system that otherwise wouldn't pay for that slip-up.

It's kind of like buying gasoline to denature/poison ethanol before selling it to the oil company to put into gasoline.

Universal health care in one of several iterations is my American Dream as I can judge prospective employers by how much they pay me and not by how well the giant employer's benefits package compares. Or I could boldly strike out on my own. Letting an employer be in charge of my health and my family's non-bankruptcy is ludicrous.

 

[d00df00d]

My wife and I will be making extensive use of an HSA account. It's a great tool, and so much better than an insurance plan with a lower deductable.

 

[R80RS]

Originally Posted By: Turk
Yes Steve, and someone was fully attacked a couple months ago for standing up to this & defending the Constitution by people who took an oath to defend the Constitution.

This whole thing is a power grab and unconstitutional.

James Madison: "The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the Federal Government are few and defined. ...exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation and foreign commerce."

Everything else belongs to the States and the People.



Well said Turk.

 

[TrevorS]

Originally Posted By: whizbyu
Affordable insurance is one thing. The cost of medical care is another. Everyone who complains about how uninsured people cost the government and taxpayers money need to look at the money trail. Has anyone wondered why it costs so much to provide healthcare? Why does a CT scan replace a simple physical exam anymore? I see so many patients who go to the emergency room and do not get touched by the Emergency Room doctors. They get a CT scan for any kind of pain in their body. When I ask why a CT scan is "routine", they say they don't want to miss anything. Which means someone is practicing defensive medicine, which drives the cost. Has anyone ever wondered why any medication administered in the hospital cost so much more than if you bought it at the pharmacy? Administrative costs? Sure. Ever wondered what an Administrator aka CEO of a hospital gets paid? Do you know what the cost is of a hip implant? What about removing a kidney stone? The hardware used to remove stones, hammer prosthesis in, drill bones, take xrays, etc have a finite cost. After cost of acquisition, depreciation and everything else, the ROI now rests on charges that accrue with each case. Why does a laparoscopic appendectomy total cost upwards of $32,000? Break it down. Surgeon gets paid $2000-$2500. The rest is hospital charges. FOR 23 HOURS STAY!!!!!
I am all for socialized medicine. ACA is NOT Socialized medicine. Look at Scandinavia's model. Hellacious taxes but everybody gets taken cared of. No TV ads, no exorbitant hospital bills.
Has anyone ever talked about TORT reform after the elections? Nope. Has anyone ever talked about why hospitals that are labelled not for profit organizations have Administrators making 7 figures? Didn't think so. It's the special interest groups that drive the cost of healthcare through the roof.


Great post!

And its 1/6th of the economy. Think about that, half of that spend is wealth transfer and economic inefficiency. 8% of our economy is inefficient due to healthcare. And why? Because of special interests shaping and compromising legislation whether it be healthcare or tax code.

Add in some other bloated things the government is responsible for eg defense, NSA, and you have another large % of the economy that is wealth transfer / inefficient.

But we keep on voting the congressmen in don't we?

 

[Vikas]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Well cujet is saying his insurance is $30k. I know ours is around $12k/yr. The average family income is around $50k...

But remember that GDP is a summation of all kinds of earnings, profits, sales, and other non black market economic activity.
But my comment said does a average family earning $100K *uses* $18K worth of medical care in an average year? Another number that I have heard is that per family (4 people) on average is charged for $40K worth of medical care per year. That too sounds hard to believe. Is all the cost coming from the end of the life support care?

 

[Mykl]

I wish I could find it, but I found an excellent opinion piece regarding how our current culture mishandles end-of-life care.

The point of it was that health care providers tend to not offer honest evaluations of the chances that one operation or another will work. So, say someone has a 1% chance of surviving with a very expensive (and painful) operation, people tend to opt for it anyway because they don't want to lose their loved one when what really needed to happen was request that they be made as comfortable as possible and let their last moments in life not be in pain.

I know this kind of dives into the "death panel" political mess and that there's no real way to legislate change here. But maybe the culture needs to shift towards doctors feeling free to provide realistic evaluations of a patient's survival, rather than suggesting that they "do everything they can."

Nobody wants to die in extreme pain undergoing an operation that has a very slim chance of success. But that's what's happening, and it's costing us a lot of money.

 

[TrevorS]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Well cujet is saying his insurance is $30k. I know ours is around $12k/yr. The average family income is around $50k...

But remember that GDP is a summation of all kinds of earnings, profits, sales, and other non black market economic activity.
But my comment said does a average family earning $100K *uses* $18K worth of medical care in an average year? Another number that I have heard is that per family (4 people) on average is charged for $40K worth of medical care per year. That too sounds hard to believe. Is all the cost coming from the end of the life support care?


If you divided GDP by the number of families (which itself represented everyone in the US including single old people family size = 1) and the average income happened to be $100k then yes the average spend would be $18k.

But you're complicating your understanding by introducing an average family with a hypothetical income.

If you go here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_(PPP)_per_capita

You'll see the per person spend and percentage of GDP worldwide.

Divide $8233 by .176 gives you per capita GDP of $46778.

Multiply by 2.58 to understand the average household numbers and 3.14 to understand the average family size.

 

[TrevorS]

Originally Posted By: Mykl
I wish I could find it, but I found an excellent opinion piece regarding how our current culture mishandles end-of-life care.

The point of it was that health care providers tend to not offer honest evaluations of the chances that one operation or another will work. So, say someone has a 1% chance of surviving with a very expensive (and painful) operation, people tend to opt for it anyway because they don't want to lose their loved one when what really needed to happen was request that they be made as comfortable as possible and let their last moments in life not be in pain.

I know this kind of dives into the "death panel" political mess and that there's no real way to legislate change here. But maybe the culture needs to shift towards doctors feeling free to provide realistic evaluations of a patient's survival, rather than suggesting that they "do everything they can."

Nobody wants to die in extreme pain undergoing an operation that has a very slim chance of success. But that's what's happening, and it's costing us a lot of money.


Yes touchy subject but because healthcare resources are finite, socialized systems do a cost benefit analysis including quality of life and contribution to society.

More and more people buy private insurance to avoid the rationing.

 

[volk06]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
My wife and I will be making extensive use of an HSA account. It's a great tool, and so much better than an insurance plan with a lower deductable.


Can you elaborate on this? If the premium for a HDHP and a Copay plan were the same is there any benefit other than the tax benefit?

 

[TrevorS]

Originally Posted By: volk06
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
My wife and I will be making extensive use of an HSA account. It's a great tool, and so much better than an insurance plan with a lower deductable.


Can you elaborate on this? If the premium for a HDHP and a Copay plan were the same is there any benefit other than the tax benefit?


The premium for a HDHP is far lower than for a copayment plan.

If they were the same, it is unlikely you would go for the HDHP because you would have to pay a high deductible for the first few thousand of your healthcare expenses.

The only reason to go with the HDHP if the premium is the same would be to fund and build up an HSA during a period you expect low healthcare costs.