Where to buy an AK-47 and Mini Draco

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: wsar10

I personally am not "your ave joe" as far as guns go, I say this cuz compared to the AK platform AR's are not worth mentioning in a conversation discussing reliability.
Sorry but I don't want to have to precisely clean my "asualt" weapon after every 100 rnds in order for it to work all the time. It speaks volumes when a patent is issued in 1943 for a weapon and has not changed since, whereas the latter cuased how many US solders deaths in nam, until they figured out there weapons had corrosian issues, and needed to be cleaned daily....so there fix was a cleaning kit and chrome lined barrels (wonder where that idea came from hmmm Mikhal Kalishnakov...maybe)and a "forward assist" which was and is a band-aid for there failure to lock a round into the chamber....Eugene Stoner should hav been prosacuted for war crimes against US solders


Understood. I took it a bit differently at first.

 

[wsar10]

I'm not saying I don't enjoy shooting my AR, infact I LOVE the 5.56 round.
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: wsar10

I personally am not "your ave joe" as far as guns go, I say this cuz compared to the AK platform AR's are not worth mentioning in a conversation discussing reliability.
Sorry but I don't want to have to precisely clean my "asualt" weapon after every 100 rnds in order for it to work all the time. It speaks volumes when a patent is issued in 1943 for a weapon and has not changed since, whereas the latter cuased how many US solders deaths in nam, until they figured out there weapons had corrosian issues, and needed to be cleaned daily....so there fix was a cleaning kit and chrome lined barrels (wonder where that idea came from hmmm Mikhal Kalishnakov...maybe)and a "forward assist" which was and is a band-aid for there failure to lock a round into the chamber....Eugene Stoner should hav been prosacuted for war crimes against US solders


Understood. I took it a bit differently at first.

 

[Tempest]

Originally Posted By: wsar10

I personally am not "your ave joe" as far as guns go, I say this cuz compared to the AK platform AR's are not worth mentioning in a conversation discussing reliability.
Sorry but I don't want to have to precisely clean my "asualt" weapon after every 100 rnds in order for it to work all the time. It speaks volumes when a patent is issued in 1943 for a weapon and has not changed since, whereas the latter cuased how many US solders deaths in nam, until they figured out there weapons had corrosian issues, and needed to be cleaned daily....so there fix was a cleaning kit and chrome lined barrels (wonder where that idea came from hmmm Mikhal Kalishnakov...maybe)and a "forward assist" which was and is a band-aid for there failure to lock a round into the chamber....Eugene Stoner should hav been prosacuted for war crimes against US solders.

All this being said they run cooler and are more accurate at distance than AK, but thats all they got going for them.


Quote:
When developing the .223 (5.56 mm) cartridge, Stoner used a type of gunpowder known as IMR powder. With the IMR powder, the then AR15 was highly reliable, but the Army had converted to the use of ball type powder in its cartridges, which was cheaper to produce and had completely different ballistic characteristics.

Between 1965 and 1967, several major problems, centering on the direct-gas action and the lack of maintenance equipment, occurred with the M16 in combat. The use of cheap ball gunpowder left a very sticky residue in the barrel and the gas tube.

Since the barrel wasn’t chrome-lined and no cleaning equipment and/or lubricants were available, it hardened quickly and soon made the rifle inoperable. The residue also caused spent casings to become stuck in the chamber and the rifle suffered a rim/shear extraction failure, where the bolt’s extractor tore off a portion of the end of the spent casing, leaving the rest of the case stuck in the chamber.

The case often had to be removed by the untrained troops with a cleaning rod shoved down the muzzle. The “untrained” nature of the typical grunt proved to be yet another blow to the M16.

A Congressional Subcommittee ruled in 1967 that the malfunctions were largely caused by Army mismanagement. To correct the M16′s fouling problems, the formulation of the ball gunpowder used in the 5.56mm M193 Ball cartridge was changed by reducing the level of calcium carbonate (CaCO3 – limestone, used as an acid neutralizer to extend shelf life) from 1% to .25%, less than half the amount shown to clog the M16′s gas tube.

Additionally, a new heavier weight buffer was developed to reduce cyclic rates back to normal and the chamber and bore eventually received a chrome-lined treatment. A cleaning kit was finally developed as well, along with a new butt-stock able to store the cleaning kit in the rifle. Finally, a massive training program on how to properly maintain the M16 was instituted using a rifle maintenance comic book.

http://www.itstactical.com/warcom/firearms/how-to-keep-your-ar-running-part-1/

Quote:
McNamara ordered the weapon be adopted unmodified, in its current configuration, for immediate issue to all services, despite receiving reports noting several deficiencies with the M16 as a service rifle, including the lack of a chrome-lined bore and chamber

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M16_rifle

It's not the rifle, but the support and ammo it got.

 

[HyperJinx]

I see no good reason to worry about finding a milled receiver over a stamped one. I mean come on, who has ever wore out a stamped AK? The milled receivers are heavier and no better as far as function.

In my opinion, kit guns are junk (at least the ones I have seen). When I say kit, I am talking about all these AK variants that are built using a USA receiver and often times a USA barrel. I have never had any problem finding a nice MAK90 or post ban Polytech AKS. They do run a little higher in price but well worth it. If you shop, you can find a MAK90 for the same price or better than most of these kit guns that are all the rage now a days.

AK vs AR is like talking about apples and oranges.. Its just not fair to discuss them one against the other. So I wont bother.

As far as these guys selling AK variants for $700 at the gun shows, well-they can keep them. I would never pay $700 for a AK. MAK90's are $500.00 all day long if you look.

If I were looking to buy a AK variant, it would be:

Polytech AKS
MAK90
SAR-1
WASR

 

[Ursae_Majoris]

IMR is a company, not powder type. That particular IMR powder was stick powder. Nothing wrong with ball powder either, it just needs to be matched to the caliber/weapon. I used ball, stick and flake powders in my reloads.

Even current issue M4s and M16s do not tolerate dirt particularly well. They need to be cleaned daily in sands of "-Stans" (talked to friends who served there).
AKs will go thru cases of ammo in the dusty environment without hiccups.

Magazines is another big plus for AK. Drop an M16 mag on the floor-it will dent the lips, and you will get FTFs. Feeding lips on AKs are almost 1/8" thick. They will not dent.

 

[jjjxlr8]

So.....what are you going to buy Pablo?

 

[CivicFan]

Once I find a trustworthy FFL, I plan to buy one of those:

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct446.aspx

 

[ammolab]

Originally Posted By: Ursae_Majoris
IMR is a company, not powder type. That particular IMR powder was stick powder.


Nope, "IMR" IS a powder type. It is a line of "Improved Military Rifle (see, IMR) developed and made by DUPONT (there is your company)... It is all an extruded ("Stick") powder. You will not find a IMR powder in any other granule form.

DUPONT is no longer the company that mfgs. and Sells IMR powders.

 

[stockrex]

Pablo,
I never had any semi-auto anything, drove a stick and single shot bolt, well those days are over since I have been following a thread on the highroad forum on Saiga rifles.
what can I say, now I have few in every caliber they make,
I started shotting my .223 at 100/200 yrd matches and my groups are quite tight (if I do my part). Yesterday I was messging with my sight at 25 yrds and using open sights and a sandbag on bale of wire my 5 shot was within an inch.
as mentioned by wsar10, they are chrome lines brand new rifles straight from the motherland ;-).
$350 for the smaller cals and $550 for larger cals gives a brand new accurate rifle.
the part I don't like about saigas is the magazine, for some you have to use the factory style bag (follower) or mod it to take a generic mag.
I bought galil mags for my .223

 

[Y_K]

Originally Posted By: dlafoy
Try Pakistan, I bet they are cheap and easy to come by.
Somali: A co-designer of the Stoner rifle tell his son in Iraq to get an AK as soon as he got there
The late Col. Hackworth experienced the AK-47 in Vietnam and related the story of a dead VC and his weapon that had been bulldozed into a defensive berm. They were uncovered after a year when the defenses were being expanded. Hack picked up the still loaded weapon, kicked the rusted bolt free and proceeded to fire the remaining ammo in the magazine in a continuous burst.

 

[wsar10]

its not apples and oranges....... our AR or (M16) is exactly the AK's competition at war (as unfortunate as that may be). But if you meant the reliability as far as apples and oranges than i gotta agree.

and as far as it being the support and ammo.......well IMO thats just [censored]....
You cant fix engineering flaws with any kind of support or ammo.

 

[wsar10]

I also gotta say that the origanal SAR is the way to go...

 

[chevrofreak]

Originally Posted By: Tempest

It's not the rifle, but the support and ammo it got.


Wrong. It's a bad design for a combat rifle. It works fine for designated marksmen or sniper roles, but direct gas impingement is a horrible thing to have in a weapon that will see sustained fire. It heats the heck out of the receiver and bolt, and deposits carbon exactly where it shouldn't be.